Two Verdurian questions to check:
1) For plural referents, do we use singular forms of kio, eto, tot? Or do I use indefinite pronouns (for the latter)? Sorry if the answer is somehow obvious!
2) Where does stress fall in words that have i or u in penultimate position (and no stress marking)? E.g. Šerian ‒ do we get a glide or is the -i- stressed?
Thanks!
Verdurian grammar questions
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Re: Verdurian grammar questions
1. Yes, use singular verbs. If you're referring to people, try to use ca instead.
2. They are stressed, e.g. še-RI-an, pre-ZU-ir.
However, in Basfahe u + V was already monophthongized: šual > šal. There was an earlier stage šwal. A genteel speaker would avoid šal, but might well say šwal instead of the 'correct' (or earlier) ŠU-al.
2. They are stressed, e.g. še-RI-an, pre-ZU-ir.
However, in Basfahe u + V was already monophthongized: šual > šal. There was an earlier stage šwal. A genteel speaker would avoid šal, but might well say šwal instead of the 'correct' (or earlier) ŠU-al.
Re: Verdurian grammar questions
Thanks! Very helpful.
Another mystery concerning stress that I’ve been thinking about for a while: what about a word like ucörtië, with two lengî (neither of which penult) and no vuáë?
I’m struggling to remember what exactly I was confused about right now, but I’ll read over what I was trying to write and post an example sentence tomorrow just to check I understand this fully.
Thanks ‒ good to know!2. They are stressed, e.g. še-RI-an, pre-ZU-ir.
However, in Basfahe u + V was already monophthongized: šual > šal. There was an earlier stage šwal. A genteel speaker would avoid šal, but might well say šwal instead of the 'correct' (or earlier) ŠU-al.
Another mystery concerning stress that I’ve been thinking about for a while: what about a word like ucörtië, with two lengî (neither of which penult) and no vuáë?
Re: Verdurian grammar questions
Ok, great, thank you!
Re: Verdurian grammar questions
While we're at it, just want to double check re iscreniy ‒ is the <y> just the orthographic variant of <i> for masculine nouns, or a consonant? And consequently where is the stress? The following would suggest it’s on the -e-:
And also, tosceio ‒ reading strictly, the RG seems to suggest this is stressed on the -i-. (Since the stress rules say to ignore syllabification.) Is this correct?
(Sorry to bother you with all this small fry, but I’m thinking about adding audio to this Anki deck I’m making, so I want to make sure I understand the rules fully.)
(I’m curious whether the pronunciation would differ from *iscreny.)the Stress section of the RG wrote:do not count y (ŽA-ney) unless it’s the only vowel (ver-DU-ry).
And also, tosceio ‒ reading strictly, the RG seems to suggest this is stressed on the -i-. (Since the stress rules say to ignore syllabification.) Is this correct?
(Sorry to bother you with all this small fry, but I’m thinking about adding audio to this Anki deck I’m making, so I want to make sure I understand the rules fully.)
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Re: Verdurian grammar questions
is-CRE-niy, yes.
Not in EMV at least. The progression is -ILIS > ilyi > iyi > i but there was no long i in EMV.(I’m curious whether the pronunciation would differ from *iscreny.)
Technically yes, but I should add some rules for blatant reborrowings from Caďinor. Caď. EIO is just pronounced like -eo.And also, tosceio ‒ reading strictly, the RG seems to suggest this is stressed on the -i-. (Since the stress rules say to ignore syllabification.) Is this correct?
Re: Verdurian grammar questions
Great, thank you!
There are other cases that give me pause for thought -- a name I'm using a lot, Kaidan, doesn't feel too natural to stress on the -i-. But (a) that's partly my conditioning being familiar with similar names here, (b) there's usually so much dialectal variation about such things that I am probably overthinking it, and (c) I'm guessing this might fall under the bracket of examples which might be found casually with a glide, but, when asked to repeat carefully, speakers will insist on stressing the technical penult.
That's more or less the situation I figured. Adding those rules wouldn't hurt, but my instinct was just to pronounce it that way anyway.
There are other cases that give me pause for thought -- a name I'm using a lot, Kaidan, doesn't feel too natural to stress on the -i-. But (a) that's partly my conditioning being familiar with similar names here, (b) there's usually so much dialectal variation about such things that I am probably overthinking it, and (c) I'm guessing this might fall under the bracket of examples which might be found casually with a glide, but, when asked to repeat carefully, speakers will insist on stressing the technical penult.
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Re: Verdurian grammar questions
I'd say (c). Much more important to get that uvular [q] in.sasasha wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 2:32 pm There are other cases that give me pause for thought -- a name I'm using a lot, Kaidan, doesn't feel too natural to stress on the -i-. But (a) that's partly my conditioning being familiar with similar names here, (b) there's usually so much dialectal variation about such things that I am probably overthinking it, and (c) I'm guessing this might fall under the bracket of examples which might be found casually with a glide, but, when asked to repeat carefully, speakers will insist on stressing the technical penult.
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Re: Verdurian grammar questions
I’m pretty sure I’ve got the answer already from readings, but just to register this stress query I once had so this thread has a comprehensive record of them, and in case I’m wrong:
If a word with an accent in the root then takes an inflectional ending with stress, it’s the ending that takes the stress?
E.g. ränát > ränatán
If a word with an accent in the root then takes an inflectional ending with stress, it’s the ending that takes the stress?
E.g. ränát > ränatán