Zompist Bboard Again

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:05 amDiscussing historical linguistics with Talskubilos is about as meaningful as discussing evolution with a hard-boiled creationist.

This is why I keep you in my ignored list.

This isn't a PIE-native word but a Paleo-European substrate loanword, How can you tell? (and is it possible to answer that question without saying "because PIE doesn't exist"?) Because it has a limited attestation within IE and *b is incompatible with Hittite šam(a)lu , which would point ...

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:14 pmPIE *h2ebol- 'apple'

This isn't a PIE-native word but a Paleo-European substrate loanword, so there's no point in reconstrucing *h₂ here.

but the problematic portion is, who or why would be using "warm season" and "ripe fruit" interchangeably to ease the transition? This only happens in the purported correspondence between NEC *mhălV- ~ *mhănV- 'warm' and IE *meh 2 l-o- 'apple', wait wait wait - you just now said ...

but the problematic portion is, who or why would be using "warm season" and "ripe fruit" interchangeably to ease the transition? This only happens in the purported correspondence between NEC *mhălV- ~ *mhănV- 'warm' and IE *meh 2 l-o- 'apple', which is collateral to the 'apple' ...

Skookum wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:58 pm

Talskubilos wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:22 pm

Zju wrote: ↑Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:20 pm Indeed, all of **Hɑmæ/lV/nV look like arbitrarily constructed words to get the initially desired result. And of course, we can drop and add consonants as much as we want to get from **Hɑmæ to uda.

Isn't it that way reconstructions are made?

No

Please explain why.

Indeed, all of **Hɑmæ/lV/nV look like arbitrarily constructed words to get the initially desired result. And of course, we can drop and add consonants as much as we want to get from **Hɑmæ to uda. Isn't it that way reconstructions are made? *Hɑmæ > Basque uda 'summer' *Hɑmæ-nV > Basque umao, umau, ...

( š is not a regular continuation of laryngeals; Kloekhorst assume an s-mobile here, which is also ad hoc and doesn't seem to be attested in other branches). I'd link (but not necessarily in a direct way) Hittite šam(a)lu- 'apple' to IE *sam- 'summer' (seemingly not native), in turn corresponding t...

AFAIK, pigs were domesticated in Anatolia about 13,000 years ago. That’s long before PIE is assumed to have been spoken, so there is no reason to believe that to the IEans, pigs were a novelty. But new words being derived especially for young animals and then becoming the word also for the grown an...

bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:04 amApropos of this, I’d be interested to know how often you consider a relationship between words but then discard it.

I haven't got a statistics, but I'm sure I already did it several times.

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:02 pmThe most common reflex of PIE laryngeals in loanwords into Uralic is AFAIK zero, but there appear to be a few words where a laryngeal appears to be reflected by *k, *x or *š.

This would be the case of *Hoḱte-h₃(u) '8' ~ Uralic *kakta ~ *kæktæ '2'.

Is actually a word meaning “apple” or “fruit” derived from the Nakh-Dagahestani lexeme attested in Eastern Caucasian? Not necessarily so, but it would provide the "missing link" for IE *mah 2 l-o- A potential semantic development is not much of a missing link I was referring to phonology,...

But PIE is a reconstructed language, so it behaves like a conlang. Non sequitur. For practical purposes it is. In fact, the Spaniards Carlos Quiles & Fernando López-Merchero made a conlang based on PIE, nicknamed "dnghu": https://indo-european.info/a-grammar-of-modern-indo-european-th...

keenir wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:31 am where do you think pigs came from? also, many pig breeds - extant and extinct - have been mottled

The thing is there're several word for 'pig' in IE languages, and this one appears to have been borrowed as a Wanderwort coined by pig breeders of SE Asia.

As with modern IE languages, PIE had a very productive derivational morphology, and its traces are all over its modern-day descendants. So you're basically saying PIE behaves like a conlang, are you? Really confused by what you mean by this, since derivation is a process in all natural languages as...

Zju wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:52 amIf anything, your ad hoc protoforms of all kinds of alleged wanderwörter are constructed.

In long-range comparisons, it's far easier to pick Wandewörter rather than true inherited lexicon (excluding chance resemblances, of course).

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:18 amSo "multicoloured" shifting to "young pig" is an entirely plausible etymology.

It could be so if "Kurgan" (or any body else who spoke "PIE") people didn't domesticate the animal and imported piglets from elsewhere without the corresponding loanword.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:07 amWould those be multicoloured boar cubs?

Yes, that's right.

No, why would I say that? If anything, I’m saying that conlangs can become more naturalistic by having a productive derivational morphology. The thing is the +2000 lexical items reconstructed for PIE haven't got the same Ablaut nor derivative patterns, IMHO because they belong to different linguist...

And you couldn't explain that? Also, naming animals for a trait they have is not particularly uncommon — both Sinitic and Japonic appear to have onomatopoeic words for "cat", for example; we also have animal names like rusty spotted cat , ant-eater , and so on in English — so an explanati...