Zompist Bboard Again

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:15 amAs with modern IE languages, PIE had a very productive derivational morphology, and its traces are all over its modern-day descendants.

So you're basically saying PIE behaves like a conlang, are you?

Well then… why not just say so‽ No need to needlessly antagonise people with contentless replies when you could have just said this in the first place. Or even better, say why you think it’s ridiculous as well! (After all, we haven’t exactly been reticent with our own criticisms.) Why are IE schola...

As I said before, there's no such verb 'to dig'. ;) That's quite a claim. The root *perḱ- is reconstructed on the basis of reflexes in Baltic (Lithuanian prapar̃šas "ditch"), Celtic (Welsh rhych "furrow, groove", Latin loanword riga "scratch, cleft"), Germanic (English...

except that neither *au nor *ahe regularly appears in modern Basque as a simple /a/, whether the compound is historical or modern and transparent. Trask himself confirms this, stating the modern reflxes of those sequences would either be /au/ and /ahe/ (no change at all) if transparent compounds, o...

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:42 amSo you just like being rude to people who disagree with you or point out flaws in your reasoning?

No, just because I find that etymological proposal pretty ridiculous.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:01 amIs there a reason you feel the need to be so excessively rude?

I'm sorry you feel that way.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:30 pmThe "multicoloured" etymon for "pig" is also plausible.

basque also has madari as a variant of the word for pear, making it less likely that either word contains a morpheme /uda/. thats really all i have to say. This m(a)- is a kind of prothesis found in variants of some words, namely hegal 'wing' -> magal , or udare, udari 'pear' -> madari . According ...

The semantic shift would be 'warm (season)' -> 'ripe (fruit)' -> 'apple/pear'. I do understand this. However I think that such a development would be extremely implausible, especially given that it goes from abstract to concrete. (Twice!) How would you explain then the relationship between Basque u...

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:14 amI was referring only to the semantic development.

The semantic shift would be 'warm (season)' -> 'ripe (fruit)' -> 'apple/pear'.

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:01 amYes, indeed they are extremely different “warm”↔“apple” makes very little sense, whereas “dig”↔“pig” is perfectly plausible.

As I said before, there's no such verb 'to dig'.

wait, how is "warm" <-> "apple" permissible to you, but "dig" <-> "pig" is not? These cases are very different. ;) wait, why do we need a missing link, when you said the Nakh language provides a better origin than PIE does? if you're using Nakh as a source fo...

keenir wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:09 pmso, is that a Yes or a No? I don't know what 0ablauts are.

In this context, 0-Ablaut is CRC, where R represents a resonant, either a liquid /l, r/ or a nasal /n, m/. e-Ablaut is CeRC and o-Ablaut CoRC.

IMHO, *ab(ō)l isn't a PIE-native word but a Paleo-European substrate loanword which I'd link to Hittite šam(a)lu- , Uralic *omɜrɜ ~ *omena 'apple' and Basque udare, udari, madari 'pear'. The origin would have been the lexeme found in Nakh-Dagestanian *mhălV- ~ *mhănV- 'warm' and IE *meh₂l-o- 'apple...

so, in order to not be a loanword into IE, there need to be nouns and verbs descended from it? In this and other cases (e.g. English horse < *krs-o- ) the lack of verb attestations is linked to a 0-Ablaut grade, which looks to me as a trademark of "pre-Kuganic" words. In my own framework,...

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:05 amIt's also possible that both things are true, and "pig" was borrowed as something like *bokos or *brokos and deformed to *porḱos by folk etymology.

I think there's no need of a folk etymology here.

I think the argument is that the PIE word for ’pig’ was supposedly a derived form of the verb *porḱ- , but if the verb itself is unattested, then this is more probably a chance resemblance. Not that animal names have to be verbs. They're often Wanderwörter , especially domesticated ones, as it happ...

I think Talskubilos meant that **perḱ- looks like it’s a NW regional word. That's right, but this is a bad reconstruction, because this lexeme is only attested as *prḱ- in nouns derivated from it. Correct me if I wrong, but there's no such verb **perḱ- 'to dig' in IE. Sanskrit parśāna 'precipice' w...

Zju wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:24 amThat's a neat definition you got there that ignores the first and more important part of the question:

[H]ow did the NW people manage to keep this word (and perhaps others) unchanging from an age before Latin, all the way to the modern day[?]

I don't understand the point.

You dodged a question again, should we assume you can't answer it? Mallory & Adams (2006) define "NW regional words" as the ones found in any two or more of Celtic, Italic, Germanic, Slavic and Baltic, but not in Anatolian, Indo-Iranian, Greek, Armeanian, Tocharian or Albanian. See Ko...