Zompist Bboard Again

As far as I recall, there was this general rule of thumb for a naturalistic vowel system: 1. Pick one of: /a i u~o/, /a e~ə i u/, /a e i o u/, /a ɛ i ɔ u/, /a ɛ e i ɔ o u/ 2. Make up to two changes. A change is one of the following: dropping a vowel, adding a vowel, substituting a vowel with anothe...

Zju wrote: ↑Sun Nov 10, 2024 11:29 am By 'originate' do you mean how to derive it diachronically or just how to design it?

Good question. Thank you. I meant the latter.

How do I originate a vowel system for my conlang? Some design principles: 1. Phonemic distinction between long and short vowels are mandatory. There is a human reason for this. 2. {a, i, u, aː, iː, uː} is too simple of a vowel system. 3. The common vowel system lengthened {a, i, u, e, o, aː, iː, uː,...

"There is literally never a logical reason to study Ancient Greek because if any nifty features from Ancient Greek were of value they would have made it into Modern Greek."

I could mention numerous counterexamples, but for now I’ll simply give you a sample of Iau , with six consonants and almost entirely monosyllabic words: /ai⁴²³ɪ²³ | di⁴²³ a³²fa⁴³⁻³² bɪ⁴³bɪ⁴²³ du⁴³bɛ⁴³ | bʊ⁴² dɔɛ⁴³ du⁴³ | a⁴²³ tɔ⁴² di⁴²³ a⁴²³da³ bɛ⁴³si⁴³ aɛ⁴²³ ɪ³ || bɛ⁴³fɛ⁴³ bi⁴³si⁴²³ ba⁴³bʊ⁴²³ bʊ⁴²...

zomps right don't be mean to the newb, guise, come on. Holy, I think what you want is lemmatization ? cause like, yeah, english and natural languages are totally ambiguous, but also people are not going to learn a new language to talk to Bard GPT. but what you can do, in order for some LLM to parse...

To me, the optimally-small phoneme set is /p t k m n s~ʃ~h r~ɾ~ɺ~l w~ʋ~v j~ʝ/ for consonants and /a i~e u~o/ for vowels... I feel obliged to link Darren’s five-phoneme language . (And more importantly, his exhaustive survey of very small inventories .) Even though Darren's 7-phoneme (where are you ...

The goal is to create a language for knowledge storage, for the benefit of LLM's like ChatGPT. Given this, interoperability with extant human languages is not necessary. What is necessary is that the language be a self-sustaining, complete, and consistent system that the LLM and its community of hu...

I'm of the nutcase-or-troll opinion here. "Thinking is difficult: that's why most people judge." - Carl Jung. You have been making no sense at all in this thread. And I am not the only person to come to that conclusion. Why is it my responsibility to anticipate ahead of time what makes se...

Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2024 5:25 pm I'm of the nutcase-or-troll opinion here.

"Thinking is difficult: that's why most people judge." - Carl Jung.

I’m not going to bother with this any more. I don’t have the energy for discussions with someone who isn’t interested in having a good-faith conversation. Hmm... a little judgmental, are we? Faith often stirrs judgment. Also exhaustion ("I don't have the energy") isn't a solution to anyth...

What are you talking about? It is literally just one tribe in the Khoisan desert in Africa that speaks with clicks. Including clicks will cause the phonology to explode and we already have one desert language (Hebrew) that destroyed the Universe. I'm not sure whether you're a nutcase or a very dedi...

There are only five fundamental clicks Six, actually. and they do not interact well with the rest of human phonology. They interact just fine. Plenty of people speak languages with clicks, and they don’t seem to encounter any problems doing so. What are you talking about? It is literally just one t...

I’d be curious to know if you’ve looked at Lojban ? One of its original goals was to enable unambiguous human-computer interaction. Yes. That is exactly what I am seeking to overturn. One of the flies in the ointment of Lojban is that there are many logical distinction that can theoretically be gra...

Voiceless nasals are not very distinct from each other, especially when not released into a vowel. That is unoptimal. Clicks, on the other hand, are very easily distinguishable, and occur paralinguistically with almost all languages. There are only five fundamental clicks, and they do not interact ...

The goal is to create a language for knowledge storage, for the benefit of LLM's like ChatGPT. Given this, interoperability with extant human languages is not necessary. Then why bother emulating human phonology at all? Computers could easily handle something more compact and built around their nat...

A bit off-topic, but this is unfair to the point of being incorrect. The linguistics literature is fascinating and can give you answers to many of the questions you’ve been asking. (For instance: the ones on aspirated fricatives which Nort sent you, especially the last one .) That was pleasantly su...

Okay, I see. This is an engelang and not a (naturalistic) artlang. I won't question the LLM premise then. I think my questions are: Very Good. Let us proceed. [*]What is optimal in a spread? Maximal number of phonemes? Maximal distance between phonemes? Some compromise between the two? If you need ...

optimal for what though. no, seriously. The most spread usage of the phonological space of human language, in such a way so that the number of discernable phonemes is maximized... but without doing something crazy like including affricates, click consonants or rare articulations that make no logica...

The fricative series are organized by fortis/lenis because aspirated fricatives are impossible. PHOIBLE Index Phonemica Wikipedia A panchronic study of aspirated fricatives, with new evidence from Pumi (Jacques 2011) A contrastive typology of aspirated fricatives (Craioveanu 2013) The production of...