Zompist Bboard Again

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:58 pmHow do you pronounce hundred when you're not paying attention (i.e. not the careful, formal pronunciation) or, in particular, if you are saying something like two hundred and fifty six?

"hunnert"

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:05 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:58 pmHow do you pronounce hundred when you're not paying attention (i.e. not the careful, formal pronunciation) or, in particular, if you are saying something like two hundred and fifty six?

"hunnert"

Yeah, here it's "hunnerd" or, for me, just "hunner", but I was not able to find this pronunciation in dictionaries anywhere, hence my question. Note that "hunnerd" can end in a voiceless stop or a flap, but the length of the vowel betrays that it is /d/.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:22 am

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:05 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:58 pmHow do you pronounce hundred when you're not paying attention (i.e. not the careful, formal pronunciation) or, in particular, if you are saying something like two hundred and fifty six?

"hunnert"

Yeah, here it's "hunnerd" or, for me, just "hunner", but I was not able to find this pronunciation in dictionaries anywhere, hence my question. Note that "hunnerd" can end in a voiceless stop or a flap, but the length of the vowel betrays that it is /d/.

FWIW, Wiktionary has "/ˈhʌndɚd/".

Could be it's phonemically /d/ for me, too, but that's not how I perceive it. I might be wrong but I don't think there's much conditioned variation in the length of my vowels in unstressed syllables.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:58 pm How do you pronounce hundred when you're not paying attention (i.e. not the careful, formal pronunciation) or, in particular, if you are saying something like two hundred and fifty six?

[ˈ(h)än(d)ɹəd]

How about:

miracle
illustrate
irritate
South Africa

miracle [ˈmɪːʁˤəkɯ(ː)]
illustrate [ˈɘːɰəˌɕtɕɻʁe̞ʔ] (note that [ɻʁ] here really are coarticulated)
irritate [ˈɪːʁˤəˌtʰe̞ʔ]
South Africa [ˌsʌo̯θˈɛfʁˤəkə(ː)]

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:58 pm How do you pronounce hundred when you're not paying attention (i.e. not the careful, formal pronunciation) or, in particular, if you are saying something like two hundred and fifty six?

[ˈhɐ᷉dʐ̥əd̚] compared to more careful [ˈhɐndʐ̥ɻʷəd̥]

I think...

miracle /mɪrəkəl/ : ['mɪ.ɹə.kʰəɫ~'mɪ.ɹə.kʰəɰ]
illustrate /ɪləstreit/ : ['ɪ.ɫəsˌtʰɹe(j)ʔ]
irritate /ɪrɪteit/ : ['ɪ.ɹɨ.tʰe(j)ʔ]
South Africa /sauθ æfrɪkə/ : [sæʊθ 'æ.fɹɨ.kʰə]

miracle /mirəkəl/ [miɚ̯əkɫ]
illustrate /iləstrejt/ [ɪɫəstɹe(ɪ̯)ˀ(t)]
irritate /irɨtejt/ [ˈiɚ̯ɪteɪ̯ˀ(t)]
South Africa /sæwθˈæfrɨkə/ [sæɜ̯θ ˈæ̠fɹɪkə]

How about mitian? Would that be closer to mission or to me-T-an?

Zju wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 3:07 pm How about mitian? Would that be closer to mission or to me-T-an?

[ˈmɘjɘ̃(ː)n]

Zju wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2023 3:07 pm How about mitian? Would that be closer to mission or to me-T-an?

The latter, because it is to be parsed "mi-ti-an", with *mi and *ti being the hypothetical Proto-Mitian 1st and 2nd person pronouns the macrofamily is named for.

I say /ˈmɪtijən/

miracle /'mirəkəl/ ['miˑɚ̯ɹ^ʋɘkɫ̩]
illustrate /'ɪləstret/ ['ɪˑɫɘstɹ̥^ʋei̯t]
irritate /'irətet/ ['iˑɚ̯ɹ^ʋɘtʰei̯t]
South Africa /'sau̯'θæfrəkʌ/ [saʊ̯'θafɹ^ʋɘkə~saʊ'θafɹ^ʋɘkʌ] (not homophonous with *"Sow Thafrica" because I pronounce South Africa as one word, with pre-voiceless clipping--compare "high school")
mitian /'mi'tiən/ [miˑ'tʰiːɘn]

I asked because I have:

miracle [ˈme̞ɻʷɵkʰu]
illustrate [ˈe̞ɫəs̞t̞͡ʂʷæ͡ɪt]
irritate [ˈe̞ɻʷətˢæ͡ɪtˢ]

And I was wondering whether anyone else had that distinctive /ɪ/-lowering.

Also:

South Africa: [sæ͡ʉθ ˈʔæfɻʷɵkʰɐ] in careful speech, [sæ͡ʉˈðæfɻʷɵkʰɐ] normally
mitian: [ˈmɪtˢɨjən] or [ˈmiːtˢiːjən]

Estav wrote: ↑Sat Sep 16, 2023 8:43 pm South Africa /'sau̯'θæfrəkʌ/ [saʊ̯'θafɹ^ʋɘkə~saʊ'θafɹ^ʋɘkʌ] (not homophonous with *"Sow Thafrica" because I pronounce South Africa as one word, with pre-voiceless clipping--compare "high school")

For me pre-voiceless clipping functions across word boundaries, whereas "Canadian" raising does not. Hence why in many of my transcriptions I write the last vowel in a word where there are no obstruents in its coda as having ambiguous length, as it can vary depending on environment.

Per the discussion here:

poor boor moor
to pour
tour
tourist
tournament
tourniquet
Tourette syndrome

Also, what about path/truth vs. paths/truths? Saw some people elsewhere saying they pronounce the former pair of singulars with /θ/, but the latter pair of plurals with /θs/ or /ðz/.

i want to spell it as truthes

[ˈkjʉ.ɹ] for cure

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:08 pm Per the discussion here:

poor boor moor
to pour
tour
tourist
tournament
tourniquet
Tourette syndrome

pʰʊː bʊː mʊː
tʰə pʰʊː
tʰʊː
ˈtʰʊːɻəsʔ
ˈtʰʊːnəmənʔ
ˈtʰʊːnɪ,kʰæi̯
tʰəˈɻeʔts[

Also, what about path/truth vs. paths/truths? Saw some people elsewhere saying they pronounce the former pair of singulars with /θ/, but the latter pair of plurals with /θs/ or /ðz/.

i want to spell it as truthes

pʰaːθ ʈʂɻəʉ̯θ
pʰaːðz ʈʂɻəʉ̯ðz

I used to say [pʰaːθs ʈʂɻəʉ̯θs] but when I was a small child I said [wɔʈʂs] for 'watches' so I wouldn't trust me.

poor boor moor [pʰʊɜ bʊɜ mʊɜ]
to pour [tˢə̥ˈpʰoː]
tour [tˢʊɜ]
tourist [ˈtˢʊŭɻʷɵ̝st]
tournament [ˈtˢoːnɘˌmɘntˢ]
tourniquet [ˈtˢoːnəˌkʰæ͡ɪ] (though this is not a word I recall ever saying)
Tourette’s syndrome [tˢʊŭˈɻʷe̞tˌsɨnɖ͡ʐɻʷɞ͡ʉm]

([ʊɜ] may actually be [ʊə]; it’s hard to say for sure.)

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Sun Oct 08, 2023 10:08 pm Also, what about path/truth vs. paths/truths? Saw some people elsewhere saying they pronounce the former pair of singulars with /θ/, but the latter pair of plurals with /θs/ or /ðz/.

I think I have /θs/ for both, but pa/ðz/ sounds fine too, whereas tru/ðz/ feels weird.