Choice of contractions in English

Natural languages and linguistics
Post Reply
User avatar
alice
Posts: 901
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:15 am
Location: 'twixt Survival and Guilt

Choice of contractions in English

Post by alice »

In sequences of three words where the middle word can contract with either of the other two, is it known if there are any factors which govern which contraction is actually used? As an example, consider "you aren't" versus "you're not"; the first seems more natural to me, but the second isn't particularly unnatural.
Self-referential signatures are for people too boring to come up with more interesting alternatives.
Salmoneus
Posts: 1057
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:48 pm

Re: Choice of contractions in English

Post by Salmoneus »

alice wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:29 am In sequences of three words where the middle word can contract with either of the other two, is it known if there are any factors which govern which contraction is actually used? As an example, consider "you aren't" versus "you're not"; the first seems more natural to me, but the second isn't particularly unnatural.
Dialect and context.

Different dialects obviously prefer different contraction patterns. But also, the context, and the desire to place emphasis, has a role. So, I'd usually say "you're not listening" - but if someone said "I AM listening", obviously I'd reply "you AREn't listening".
User avatar
Linguoboy
Posts: 2373
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:00 am
Location: Rogers Park

Re: Choice of contractions in English

Post by Linguoboy »

Whereas when the negated sentence has imperative force, "not" seems more natural:

"I AM going to the party!"
"You're NOT going to the party and that's final!"

This has got to be a very well-studied area. Have you checked Pullum and Huddleston?
User avatar
alice
Posts: 901
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:15 am
Location: 'twixt Survival and Guilt

Re: Choice of contractions in English

Post by alice »

Linguoboy wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:57 amThis has got to be a very well-studied area. Have you checked Pullum and Huddleston?
What is that?
Self-referential signatures are for people too boring to come up with more interesting alternatives.
Travis B.
Posts: 6239
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: Choice of contractions in English

Post by Travis B. »

In my dialect it is normal to use -n't whenever possible except for with am, must, shall, or ought, unless negation is being specifically emphasized or a higher register is being used.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka ha wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate ha eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
Kuchigakatai
Posts: 1307
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:19 pm

Re: Choice of contractions in English

Post by Kuchigakatai »

alice wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:21 pm
Linguoboy wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:57 amThis has got to be a very well-studied area. Have you checked Pullum and Huddleston?
What is that?
He's talking about The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language (2002) by Rodney Huddleston and Geoffrey Pullum (of Language Log fame) (eds.). It's an English grammar 1800+ pages long, a wonder of a book.
User avatar
alice
Posts: 901
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:15 am
Location: 'twixt Survival and Guilt

Re: Choice of contractions in English

Post by alice »

Ser wrote: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:12 am
alice wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:21 pm
Linguoboy wrote: Sun Aug 12, 2018 11:57 amThis has got to be a very well-studied area. Have you checked Pullum and Huddleston?
What is that?
He's talking about The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language (2002) by Rodney Huddleston and Geoffrey Pullum (of Language Log fame) (eds.). It's an English grammar 1800+ pages long, a wonder of a book.
It costs at least £200. What does he think?

I know Pullum more as the co-author of the Phonetic Symbol Guide.
Self-referential signatures are for people too boring to come up with more interesting alternatives.
User avatar
Linguoboy
Posts: 2373
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:00 am
Location: Rogers Park

Re: Choice of contractions in English

Post by Linguoboy »

alice wrote: Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:08 pmIt costs at least £200. What does he think?
Sorry, I was remembering a time before the latest round of Tory authority when Britain still had public libraries.

If I have a chance, I'll check our library's copy later today.
User avatar
din
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:34 am

Re: Choice of contractions in English

Post by din »

According to Carter and McCarthy's 2006 Cambridge grammar of English:
With the verb be [...], there is a choice of contracted negative form in the present tense [...].

In informal spoken contexts, when the subject is a pronoun, the preference is overwhelmingly for the forms with 's not/'re not. When the subject is a lexical noun phrase, the choice is more open, but with a strong preference for the isn't/aren't forms:

So they would argue that:
[*] She's not coming
Is more common than:
[*] She isn't coming

While on the other hand:
[*] This bolt isn't big enough
Is more common than:
[*] This bolt's not big enough
auno ie nasi porh notthiai îsond
i me aiargaui ô melis miurcir
Travis B.
Posts: 6239
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: Choice of contractions in English

Post by Travis B. »

That actually sounds right for me at least, with personal pronouns receiving -'m/-'s/-'re not but nouns and other pronouns taking isn't/aren't by default in everyday speech.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka ha wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate ha eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
zompist
Site Admin
Posts: 2681
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:46 am
Location: Right here, probably
Contact:

Re: Choice of contractions in English

Post by zompist »

Doing some quick Google searches, I think they're right on the pronouns, wrong on the nouns.

E.g. "you aren't" - 55m
"you're not" - 325m

Other pronouns are similar, though it's not as stark with he/she.

But: "not good" - 82m
"isn't good" - 19m

And similarly with some other common adjectives.
akam chinjir
Posts: 769
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Choice of contractions in English

Post by akam chinjir »

What nouns did you test? I got 130K for "my cat isn't" but just 6.3K for "my cat's not." (I figured the internets talk a lot about cats.)
Dē Graut Bʉr
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:29 pm
Location: Dy mi dē zyt

Re: Choice of contractions in English

Post by Dē Graut Bʉr »

His post implies that he didn't test any nouns at all, but instead tested some common adjectives, presumably under the assumption that a phrase like "isn't good" would always be preceded by a noun, which obviously isn't true.
zompist
Site Admin
Posts: 2681
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:46 am
Location: Right here, probably
Contact:

Re: Choice of contractions in English

Post by zompist »

Yeah, I was doing that in about 5 minutes. Taking another 5, with some common nouns, X's not is less common than X isn't, as the website says. But X is not is far more common (like, by two orders of magnitude) than either.
Frislander
Posts: 422
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:40 am

Re: Choice of contractions in English

Post by Frislander »

I think I tend towards X's not rather than X isn't, which I think is typical of the far north of England iirc (similarly "don't" is "divven't" in Geordie and nearby varieties).

Also related, but with contraction of "will" it seems I contract it more contexts than many people, because I keep getting red underlines when I write things like "I wonder if anyone'll respond" or "it seems no-one'll do it" or even "this man'll do it", which are absolutely perfectly grammatical for me and people in my area.
User avatar
Linguoboy
Posts: 2373
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:00 am
Location: Rogers Park

Re: Choice of contractions in English

Post by Linguoboy »

Frislander wrote: Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:30 amAlso related, but with contraction of "will" it seems I contract it more contexts than many people, because I keep getting red underlines when I write things like "I wonder if anyone'll respond" or "it seems no-one'll do it" or even "this man'll do it", which are absolutely perfectly grammatical for me and people in my area.
Y'all'll fit right in around here.
Travis B.
Posts: 6239
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: Choice of contractions in English

Post by Travis B. »

Frislander wrote: Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:30 am Also related, but with contraction of "will" it seems I contract it more contexts than many people, because I keep getting red underlines when I write things like "I wonder if anyone'll respond" or "it seems no-one'll do it" or even "this man'll do it", which are absolutely perfectly grammatical for me and people in my area.
For me, and from what it seems, most people here, will will contract to -'ll in almost all cases except when emphasized or when negated.
Last edited by Travis B. on Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka ha wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate ha eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
User avatar
mèþru
Posts: 1195
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:22 am
Location: suburbs of Mrin
Contact:

Re: Choice of contractions in English

Post by mèþru »

Contracting will to 'll is way more common in speech than in writing.
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
kårroť
Post Reply