Retransliterate Klingon!
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2948
- Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:46 am
- Location: Right here, probably
- Contact:
Retransliterate Klingon!
As I mentioned, I think Klingon's transliteration is kind of wack. The idea of re-using capitals is a clever way of avoiding special characters, but it makes Klingon look like ToRgO sPeeCh and mostly isn't necessary. So why not redo it?
Here's the phonology.
stops p b t ɖ q ʔ
affric tɬ tʃ dʒ
fric v ʂ x ɣ qχ
liquid l r
nasal m n ŋ
semvw w y
Vowels ɪ ɛ a u o
(The voiceless stops are aspirated, but as they don't contrast with unaspirated ones it's only worth a footnote.)
Okrand's orthography is of course
p b t D q '
tlh ch j
v S H gh Q
l r
m n ng
w y
A try without diacritics:
p b t d q 7
lh ch j
v sh kh gh qx
l r m n ng w y
i e a u o
Or, more Almeanized:
p b t d k ʔ
ɬ č ž
v š ȟ ɣ x
l r m n ŋ w y
i e a u o
I prefer transliterations to be phonemic— in other words, it's OK to abuse the symbols a bit. Orthographies should be maximally convenient for the person who knows the language, not the learner. Thus my preference for simple transliterations like <d> <i> and even <ɬ>.
Sample text: IPA, Okrand, Englishy, Almeanized
qaʂtaxvɪʂ waʔ ram loʂ ʂaɖ xuɣ ʂɪdʒlax qɛtboɣ loɖ.
qaStaHvIS wa' ram loS SaD Hugh SIjlaH qetbogh loD.
qashtakhvish wa7 ram losh shad khugh shijlakh qetbogh lod.
kaštaȟviš waʔ ram loš šad ȟuɣ šižlaȟ ketboɣ lod.
“Four thousand throats may be cut in one night by a running man.”
Here's the phonology.
stops p b t ɖ q ʔ
affric tɬ tʃ dʒ
fric v ʂ x ɣ qχ
liquid l r
nasal m n ŋ
semvw w y
Vowels ɪ ɛ a u o
(The voiceless stops are aspirated, but as they don't contrast with unaspirated ones it's only worth a footnote.)
Okrand's orthography is of course
p b t D q '
tlh ch j
v S H gh Q
l r
m n ng
w y
A try without diacritics:
p b t d q 7
lh ch j
v sh kh gh qx
l r m n ng w y
i e a u o
Or, more Almeanized:
p b t d k ʔ
ɬ č ž
v š ȟ ɣ x
l r m n ŋ w y
i e a u o
I prefer transliterations to be phonemic— in other words, it's OK to abuse the symbols a bit. Orthographies should be maximally convenient for the person who knows the language, not the learner. Thus my preference for simple transliterations like <d> <i> and even <ɬ>.
Sample text: IPA, Okrand, Englishy, Almeanized
qaʂtaxvɪʂ waʔ ram loʂ ʂaɖ xuɣ ʂɪdʒlax qɛtboɣ loɖ.
qaStaHvIS wa' ram loS SaD Hugh SIjlaH qetbogh loD.
qashtakhvish wa7 ram losh shad khugh shijlakh qetbogh lod.
kaštaȟviš waʔ ram loš šad ȟuɣ šižlaȟ ketboɣ lod.
“Four thousand throats may be cut in one night by a running man.”
-
- Posts: 1663
- Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:29 am
Re: Retransliterate Klingon!
Klingon is a little difficult to romanize as-is, but it's possible to reconstruct an earlier stage of the language and base the romanization on that.
Dialectal vacillation between voiced stops and nasals, taken in combination with the retroflexion of the coronal voiced stop, would be best read as implying an earlier implosive series. This means /v r ɣ/ could be from earlier voiced stops, although this isn't necessary to reflect in the romanization.
Unusually, there's no voiced equivalent of the lateral affricate - given that the only sibilant is retroflex, the affricate might be from earlier *s > *tθ.
So:
p b t d k '
s č j
v š h g q
l r
m n ng
w y
qaʂtaxvɪʂ waʔ ram loʂ ʂaɖ xuɣ ʂɪdʒlax qɛtboɣ loɖ.
kaštaxviš wa' ram loš šad xug šijlax ketbog lod
Dialectal vacillation between voiced stops and nasals, taken in combination with the retroflexion of the coronal voiced stop, would be best read as implying an earlier implosive series. This means /v r ɣ/ could be from earlier voiced stops, although this isn't necessary to reflect in the romanization.
Unusually, there's no voiced equivalent of the lateral affricate - given that the only sibilant is retroflex, the affricate might be from earlier *s > *tθ.
So:
p b t d k '
s č j
v š h g q
l r
m n ng
w y
qaʂtaxvɪʂ waʔ ram loʂ ʂaɖ xuɣ ʂɪdʒlax qɛtboɣ loɖ.
kaštaxviš wa' ram loš šad xug šijlax ketbog lod
Duaj teibohnggoe kyoe' quaqtoeq lucj lhaj k'yoejdej noeyn tucj.
K'yoejdaq fohm q'ujdoe duaj teibohnggoen dlehq lucj.
Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq.
K'yoejdaq fohm q'ujdoe duaj teibohnggoen dlehq lucj.
Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq.
Re: Retransliterate Klingon!
Oh! I once did this in Uyghur + Arabic.
EDIT: Sized up because the board makes Arabic letters so tiny.
Uyghur 1
پ ب ت ط ق ء
ڟ چ ج
ڤ ش خ غ قخ
ل ر
م ن ڭ
ۋ ي
ا ە ى و ۇ
قاشتاخڤىش ۋاء رام لوش شاط خۇغ شىجلاخ قەتبوغ لوط
Uyghur 2
پ ب ت د ك ء
ط چ ج
ف س خ غ ق
ل ر
م ن ڭ
ۋ ي
ا ە ى و ۇ
كاستاخفىس ۋاء رام لوس ساد خۇغ سىجلاخ كەتبوغ لود
EDIT: Sized up because the board makes Arabic letters so tiny.
Uyghur 1
پ ب ت ط ق ء
ڟ چ ج
ڤ ش خ غ قخ
ل ر
م ن ڭ
ۋ ي
ا ە ى و ۇ
قاشتاخڤىش ۋاء رام لوش شاط خۇغ شىجلاخ قەتبوغ لوط
Uyghur 2
پ ب ت د ك ء
ط چ ج
ف س خ غ ق
ل ر
م ن ڭ
ۋ ي
ا ە ى و ۇ
كاستاخفىس ۋاء رام لوس ساد خۇغ سىجلاخ كەتبوغ لود
Last edited by Aftovota on Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Formerly Lepidus, Αυτοβοτα
Re: Retransliterate Klingon!
p b t d q '
lh c j
v s h g x
l r
m n ng
w y
i e a u o
qastahvis wa' ram los sad hug sijlah qetbog lod.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
-
- Site Admin
- Posts: 2948
- Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:46 am
- Location: Right here, probably
- Contact:
Re: Retransliterate Klingon!
The best part of this is that they become the singan.Nortaneous wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:40 pmUnusually, there's no voiced equivalent of the lateral affricate - given that the only sibilant is retroflex, the affricate might be from earlier *s > *tθ.
Re: Retransliterate Klingon!
<p b t d k '>*
<th c j>
<v s x gh q>
<l r>
<m n ng>
<w y>
<i e a u o>
*/ʔa aʔ/ <á à>
qaʂtaxvɪʂ waʔ ram loʂ ʂaɖ xuɣ ʂɪdʒlax qɛtboɣ loɖ.
<Kastaxvis wá ram los sad xugh sijlah ketbogh lod>
and the sample from the old forum's romanization thread:
/t͡ɬɪŋɑn xol jɛd͡ʒxɑɖ d͡ʒɪnmol t͡ʃuʔ ʔox q͡χoʔnoʂ q͡χonoʂʔɛʔ. t͡ɬɪŋɑn xol d͡ʒɑt͡ɬwɪʔpʰuʔvɑɖ wɪt͡ʃɛrpʰuʔ. nox q͡χɑpʰmɛx woʔ q͡χɑwʔluʔt͡ʃuɣ jɑj t͡ʃɑvbɛʔluʔ, ʔɛd͡ʒ woʔ t͡ʃoqʰmɛx mɑjʔ ɖoxluʔt͡ʃuɣ lud͡ʒbɛʔluʔ./
<Thingan xol yejxad jinmol cu óx qònos qonosé. Thingan xol jathwìpùvad wicerpú. Nox qapmex wò qaẁlùcugh yay cavbèlù. Éj wò coqmex maỳ doxlùcugh lujbèlù>
<th c j>
<v s x gh q>
<l r>
<m n ng>
<w y>
<i e a u o>
*/ʔa aʔ/ <á à>
qaʂtaxvɪʂ waʔ ram loʂ ʂaɖ xuɣ ʂɪdʒlax qɛtboɣ loɖ.
<Kastaxvis wá ram los sad xugh sijlah ketbogh lod>
and the sample from the old forum's romanization thread:
/t͡ɬɪŋɑn xol jɛd͡ʒxɑɖ d͡ʒɪnmol t͡ʃuʔ ʔox q͡χoʔnoʂ q͡χonoʂʔɛʔ. t͡ɬɪŋɑn xol d͡ʒɑt͡ɬwɪʔpʰuʔvɑɖ wɪt͡ʃɛrpʰuʔ. nox q͡χɑpʰmɛx woʔ q͡χɑwʔluʔt͡ʃuɣ jɑj t͡ʃɑvbɛʔluʔ, ʔɛd͡ʒ woʔ t͡ʃoqʰmɛx mɑjʔ ɖoxluʔt͡ʃuɣ lud͡ʒbɛʔluʔ./
<Thingan xol yejxad jinmol cu óx qònos qonosé. Thingan xol jathwìpùvad wicerpú. Nox qapmex wò qaẁlùcugh yay cavbèlù. Éj wò coqmex maỳ doxlùcugh lujbèlù>
Zpaf kkuñb ñvneahttiñ wqxirftvn meof ñfañhsit.
Kkuñb ñvzxirf kvtañb kkuñf ñtmeaq sfañkqeanth.
Yvnmuq. Yvnmuq. Yvnmuq. Yvnmuq. Yvnmuq. Yvnmuq. Yvnmuq.
Kkuñb ñvzxirf kvtañb kkuñf ñtmeaq sfañkqeanth.
Yvnmuq. Yvnmuq. Yvnmuq. Yvnmuq. Yvnmuq. Yvnmuq. Yvnmuq.
-
- Posts: 431
- Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:40 am
Re: Retransliterate Klingon!
p b t d q ‘
tl c j
v s x g qχ
l r
m n ŋ
w y
i e a u o
qastaxvis wa‘ ram los sad xug sijlax qetbog lod
tl c j
v s x g qχ
l r
m n ŋ
w y
i e a u o
qastaxvis wa‘ ram los sad xug sijlax qetbog lod
-
- Posts: 128
- Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:08 am
Re: Retransliterate Klingon!
Dochvam chenmoHlu'law'ta' 'e' vItu'pu'.
I don't have any good suggestions of my own, but I will note that it annoys me that the quasi-official mapping of "pIqaD" letterforms makes no sense. The character for ' in particular shouldn't look so much like an apostrophe.
I don't have any good suggestions of my own, but I will note that it annoys me that the quasi-official mapping of "pIqaD" letterforms makes no sense. The character for ' in particular shouldn't look so much like an apostrophe.
- bbbosborne
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 6:02 pm
Re: Retransliterate Klingon!
<p b t d q '>
<ƛ c j>
<v s x g qh>
<l r>
<m n ŋ>
<w y>
<i e a u o>
qadelmex bov tuj pem vilo'coxqho'.
soh 'ih 'ej belmox law', 'oh belmoh pus.
jar vag tipuq diho'bog saŋ sus ro'.
'ej raƛtahmeh bov tuj lespoh luvus.
<ƛ c j>
<v s x g qh>
<l r>
<m n ŋ>
<w y>
<i e a u o>
qadelmex bov tuj pem vilo'coxqho'.
soh 'ih 'ej belmox law', 'oh belmoh pus.
jar vag tipuq diho'bog saŋ sus ro'.
'ej raƛtahmeh bov tuj lespoh luvus.
Last edited by bbbosborne on Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
when the hell did that happen
- StrangerCoug
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:11 pm
- Location: San Antonio, TX
- Contact:
Re: Retransliterate Klingon!
Here's mine:
/p b t ɖ q ʔ/ <p b t d q '>
/tɬ tʃ dʒ/<ł c j>
/v ʂ x ɣ qχ/ <v s k g x>
/l r/ <l r>
/m n ŋ/ <m n ng>
/w y/ <w y> (though something tells me /y/ should be /j/)
/ɪ ɛ a u o/ <i e a u o>
If we need to transcribe /ng/, that's <n·g>, and /ŋg/ is <ngg>.
Qastakvis wa' ram los sad kug sijlak qetbog lod.
Łingan kol yejxad jinmol cu' 'ok xo'nos xonos'e'. Łingan kol jałwi'pu'vad wicerpu'. Nok xapmek wo' xaw'lu'cug jaj cavbe'lu', 'ej wo' coqmek may' doklu'cug lujbe'lu'.
/p b t ɖ q ʔ/ <p b t d q '>
/tɬ tʃ dʒ/<ł c j>
/v ʂ x ɣ qχ/ <v s k g x>
/l r/ <l r>
/m n ŋ/ <m n ng>
/w y/ <w y> (though something tells me /y/ should be /j/)
/ɪ ɛ a u o/ <i e a u o>
If we need to transcribe /ng/, that's <n·g>, and /ŋg/ is <ngg>.
Qastakvis wa' ram los sad kug sijlak qetbog lod.
Łingan kol yejxad jinmol cu' 'ok xo'nos xonos'e'. Łingan kol jałwi'pu'vad wicerpu'. Nok xapmek wo' xaw'lu'cug jaj cavbe'lu', 'ej wo' coqmek may' doklu'cug lujbe'lu'.
Re: Retransliterate Klingon!
/p b t ɖ q ʔ/ p b t d k f
/tɬ tʃ dʒ/ z c j
/v ʂ x ɣ qχ/ v s h x q
/l r/ l r
/m n ŋ/ m n g
/w y/ w y
/ɪ ɛ a u o/ i e a u o
/qaʂtaxvɪʂ waʔ ram loʂ ʂaɖ xuɣ ʂɪdʒlax qɛtboɣ loɖ/
Kastahvis waf ram los sad hux sijlah ketbox lod.
/tɬ tʃ dʒ/ z c j
/v ʂ x ɣ qχ/ v s h x q
/l r/ l r
/m n ŋ/ m n g
/w y/ w y
/ɪ ɛ a u o/ i e a u o
/qaʂtaxvɪʂ waʔ ram loʂ ʂaɖ xuɣ ʂɪdʒlax qɛtboɣ loɖ/
Kastahvis waf ram los sad hux sijlah ketbox lod.
Re: Retransliterate Klingon!
My abomination.
stops p b t ɖ q ʔ
affric tɬ tʃ dʒ
fric v ʂ x ɣ qχ
liquid l r
nasal m n ŋ
semvw w y
Vowels ɪ ɛ a u o
p b t d qu gn
tr tch de
v si c(i,e, ê) ç(a,o,u) g qui
l r
m n ng
ou u
i ê a ou o (/oy/ = oue)
(e interserted to avoid confusion after digraphs or to disinguish vowels (e.g. o+u = oeu)
(consonant cluster followed by a consonant has a hyphen inserted decoratively)
qaʂtaxvɪʂ waʔ ram loʂ ʂaɖ xuɣ ʂɪdʒlax qɛtboɣ loɖ.
Quasietace-visie ouagne ram losie siade-lace quêtboue lod.
tlhIngan Hol 'oHbe'bogh latlh Hol'e' DajatlhlaH'a'?
Tringan çol gnoce-bog latre çol-gnêgne dadeatre-laçegna ?
stops p b t ɖ q ʔ
affric tɬ tʃ dʒ
fric v ʂ x ɣ qχ
liquid l r
nasal m n ŋ
semvw w y
Vowels ɪ ɛ a u o
p b t d qu gn
tr tch de
v si c(i,e, ê) ç(a,o,u) g qui
l r
m n ng
ou u
i ê a ou o (/oy/ = oue)
(e interserted to avoid confusion after digraphs or to disinguish vowels (e.g. o+u = oeu)
(consonant cluster followed by a consonant has a hyphen inserted decoratively)
qaʂtaxvɪʂ waʔ ram loʂ ʂaɖ xuɣ ʂɪdʒlax qɛtboɣ loɖ.
Quasietace-visie ouagne ram losie siade-lace quêtboue lod.
tlhIngan Hol 'oHbe'bogh latlh Hol'e' DajatlhlaH'a'?
Tringan çol gnoce-bog latre çol-gnêgne dadeatre-laçegna ?
Last edited by Gulliver on Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Retransliterate Klingon!
I think that the native Latin transcription is the best, as the phonology has been made to be unpleasant to the human ear, as the transcription is to the human eye ...
You can otherwise try to do worse ...
You can otherwise try to do worse ...
Re: Retransliterate Klingon!
I enjoyed making a pseudo-French orthography as I felt that it clashed with the archetypal Klingon very neatly.
Re: Retransliterate Klingon!
Fiñan xol
/p b t ɖ q ʔ/ <p b t d k h>
/tɬ tʃ dʒ/ <f c j>
/v ʂ x ɣ qχ/ <v s x g q>
/l r/ <l r>
/m n ŋ/ <m n ñ>
/w j/ <w y>
/ɪ ɛ a u o/ <i e a u o>
Kastaxvis wah ram los sad xug sijlax ketbog lod.
/p b t ɖ q ʔ/ <p b t d k h>
/tɬ tʃ dʒ/ <f c j>
/v ʂ x ɣ qχ/ <v s x g q>
/l r/ <l r>
/m n ŋ/ <m n ñ>
/w j/ <w y>
/ɪ ɛ a u o/ <i e a u o>
Kastaxvis wah ram los sad xug sijlax ketbog lod.
Re: Retransliterate Klingon!
Tibetan, which goes more with the Klingon Aesthetic. And I've only not done 'Phags-pa because I don't have a keyboard layout for it yet. The stacking is a little idiosyncratic—I went with "use the stack if it exists" instead of "keep initial consonants with their following vowels."
ཚིངཱན་ཀོལ
པ བ ཏ ད ཀ ཧ
ཚ ཅ ཇ
ཕ ས ཁ ག ཀྑ
ལ ར
མ ན ང
ཝ ཡ
ཨཱ ཨེ ཨི ཨོ ཨུ
༄ཀཱསྟཱཁཕིས་ཝཱཧ་རཱམ་ལོས་སཱད་ཁུག་སིཇལཱཁ་ཀེཏྦོག་ལོད།།
༄ཚིངཱན་ཀོལ་ཡེཇཁཱད་ཇིནྨོལ་ཅུཧ་ཧོཁ་ཀྑོཧྣོས་ཀྑོཧྣོསཧེཧ།ཚིངཱན་ཀོལ་ཇཱཚྭིཧྤུཧྥཨཱད་ཝིཅེརྤུཧ།ནོཁ་ཀྑཨཱཔམེཁ་ཝོཧ་ཀྑཨཱཝཧླཨུཅུག་ཡཱཡ་ཅཱཕབེཧླཨུཧ༏ཧེཇ་ཝོཧ་ཅོཀམེཁ་མཱཡཧ་དོཁླཨུཧཅུག་ལུཇབེཧླཨུཧ།།
ཚིངཱན་ཀོལ
པ བ ཏ ད ཀ ཧ
ཚ ཅ ཇ
ཕ ས ཁ ག ཀྑ
ལ ར
མ ན ང
ཝ ཡ
ཨཱ ཨེ ཨི ཨོ ཨུ
༄ཀཱསྟཱཁཕིས་ཝཱཧ་རཱམ་ལོས་སཱད་ཁུག་སིཇལཱཁ་ཀེཏྦོག་ལོད།།
༄ཚིངཱན་ཀོལ་ཡེཇཁཱད་ཇིནྨོལ་ཅུཧ་ཧོཁ་ཀྑོཧྣོས་ཀྑོཧྣོསཧེཧ།ཚིངཱན་ཀོལ་ཇཱཚྭིཧྤུཧྥཨཱད་ཝིཅེརྤུཧ།ནོཁ་ཀྑཨཱཔམེཁ་ཝོཧ་ཀྑཨཱཝཧླཨུཅུག་ཡཱཡ་ཅཱཕབེཧླཨུཧ༏ཧེཇ་ཝོཧ་ཅོཀམེཁ་མཱཡཧ་དོཁླཨུཧཅུག་ལུཇབེཧླཨུཧ།།
Formerly Lepidus, Αυτοβοτα
Re: Retransliterate Klingon!
Re: Retransliterate Klingon!
/p b t ɖ q ʔ/ p b t d q k
/tɬ tʃ dʒ/ ł c ʒ
/v ʂ x ɣ qχ/ v s ꝁ ǥ ꝗ
/l r/ l r
/m n ŋ/ m n ŋ
/w j/ w j
/ɪ ɛ a u o/ i e a u o
/t͡ɬɪŋɑn xol jɛd͡ʒxɑɖ d͡ʒɪnmol t͡ʃuʔ ʔox q͡χoʔnoʂ q͡χonoʂʔɛʔ. t͡ɬɪŋɑn xol d͡ʒɑt͡ɬwɪʔpʰuʔvɑɖ wɪt͡ʃɛrpʰuʔ. nox q͡χɑpʰmɛx woʔ q͡χɑwʔluʔt͡ʃuɣ jɑj t͡ʃɑvbɛʔluʔ, ʔɛd͡ʒ woʔ t͡ʃoqʰmɛx mɑjʔ ɖoxluʔt͡ʃuɣ lud͡ʒbɛʔluʔ./
Łiŋan ꝁol jeʒꝁad ʒinmol cuk koꝁ ꝗoknos ꝗoknoskek. Łiŋan ꝁol ʒałwikpukvad wicerpuk. Noꝁ ꝗapmeꝁ wok ꝗawklukcuǥ jaj cavbeluk, keʒ wok coqmeꝁ majk doꝁlukcuǥ luʒbekluk.
For those who cannot see some of the special characters, k with stroke is used for /x/ and q with stroke is used for /qX/.
/tɬ tʃ dʒ/ ł c ʒ
/v ʂ x ɣ qχ/ v s ꝁ ǥ ꝗ
/l r/ l r
/m n ŋ/ m n ŋ
/w j/ w j
/ɪ ɛ a u o/ i e a u o
/t͡ɬɪŋɑn xol jɛd͡ʒxɑɖ d͡ʒɪnmol t͡ʃuʔ ʔox q͡χoʔnoʂ q͡χonoʂʔɛʔ. t͡ɬɪŋɑn xol d͡ʒɑt͡ɬwɪʔpʰuʔvɑɖ wɪt͡ʃɛrpʰuʔ. nox q͡χɑpʰmɛx woʔ q͡χɑwʔluʔt͡ʃuɣ jɑj t͡ʃɑvbɛʔluʔ, ʔɛd͡ʒ woʔ t͡ʃoqʰmɛx mɑjʔ ɖoxluʔt͡ʃuɣ lud͡ʒbɛʔluʔ./
Łiŋan ꝁol jeʒꝁad ʒinmol cuk koꝁ ꝗoknos ꝗoknoskek. Łiŋan ꝁol ʒałwikpukvad wicerpuk. Noꝁ ꝗapmeꝁ wok ꝗawklukcuǥ jaj cavbeluk, keʒ wok coqmeꝁ majk doꝁlukcuǥ luʒbekluk.
For those who cannot see some of the special characters, k with stroke is used for /x/ and q with stroke is used for /qX/.