Twin Aster

Conworlds and conlangs
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Man in Space
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Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

OK, so having run things through Shagomir's Planet Calculator:

- A day on Ítöð is a bit over 26 hours long (the solar day is 26.12 hours; the sidereal day, 26.02).
- A local year is 253.1 local days, or almost 275.5 Earth days.
- Radius and mass are both ~102% that of Earth. Density is 96%; gravity, 98%.
- There's two moons. The inner moon is about 390'000 km from the planet and orbits in 28.12 local days. The outer moon is some 692'000 km from the planet and it orbits in 65.62 local days. This essentially works out to a stable 3:7 resonance, if I read Wikipedia correctly.
- SolStation reports a variability of 10.137 Earth days (or about 9.35 days on Ítöð).
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Re: Twin Aster

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sees Man in Space posted something new
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ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
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Re: Twin Aster

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mèþru wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:58 pm sees Man in Space posted something new
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Where's the heart emoji when you need it?

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Plurals in CT operate by one of a few mechanisms. There are three typical methods, depending on the shape of the word: Metathesis, decomposition, and a pluralizing particle.

Metathetic plurals only occur with the five cardinal vowels a e i o u (in either tone) and in words beginning with a consonant. Note that in this instance you can occasionally end up with syllables in VCC, the only time in the language where such is permitted.

kámr 'city' > ákmr 'cities'
kaá 'building, structure' > aká 'buildings'
híar 'tray' > íhar 'trays'
limgór 'pillar' > ilmgór 'pillars'
gasgół 'moat, trench' > agsgół 'trenches'

Of note with metathetic plurals is that ʕ is given to vocalizing to low-tone a when it ends up between a consonant and another consonant or between a consonant and a word boundary.

taʕni 'ad-hoc solution' > atani 'ad-hoc solutions'
miʕ 'locust' > ima 'locusts'

A select few words with initial vowels, such as ikłe 'time, instance', have metathetic plurals (kiłe 'current events, news'). This is typically regarded as having a slang feel.

Decomposed plurals typically occur with the four hybrid vowels ö ü ë ï (again, in either tone). These "decompose" around the initial consonant; the beginning of the word, in most cases, takes a prefixed, low-tone u (if the first vowel is ö or ü) or i (if it is ë or ï). The second vowel then unrounds (if it is front) or rounds (if it is back) but retains its tone.

röð 'duty, charge, responsibility' > ureð 'charges, tasks, responsibilities'
kîĝï 'sweet pastry' > ikúĝï 'pastries'
ðûs 'chin' > uðís 'jaws'
tühén 'star' > utihén 'stars'
sëtó 'zơdo-fruit' > isotó 'zơdo-fruits'

Particular plurals occur when the word starts with a syllable nucleus, be that a vowel or a syllabic consonant, or when the nucleus of the initial syllable is a syllabic consonant.

'inlet' > aĝ ar 'inlets'
mhon 'saddle' > mhon ar 'saddles'
kntr 'saddle blanket' > kntr ar 'saddle blankets'
grmaʕ 'warning' > grmaʕ ar 'warnings'
ítkantr 'overhang' > ítkantr ar 'overhangs'

One notable exception to the vowel-first tendency is that of the name Tim Ar itself. This is an adjective (tim 'eternal') used substantively. The use of ar was a deliberate choice by the upper class as a nationalist/populist method of distinguishing themselves as a people from others.

----

Full reduplication is used in an augmentative sense or to imply that the referent is an outstanding example of its reference.

kałto 'idiot' > kałtokałto 'arch-idiot'
tïr 'wound, injury' > tïrtïr 'mortal wound'
kôr 'topic, discussion point' > kôrkôr 'thesis, argument'
ugal 'area above' > ugalugal 'summit, peak, top'
hanït 'experience' > hanïthanït 'traumatizing event'

Only the first element of the two is changed when pluralizing:

kałtokałto > akłtokałto 'arch-idiots'
tïrtïr > iturtïr 'mortal wounds'
kôrkôr > ukérkôr 'theses'
hanïthanït > ahnïthanït 'traumatizing events'

----

In CT, the nearer moon was called Éĝtis Kahál 'Strong Moon', and the farther moon was called Éĝtis Nihít 'Weak Moon'; cf. téngo kahál 'one hundred ten' (lit. 'strong hundred') and téngo nihít 'ninety' (lit. 'weak hundred').

----

The Tim Ar have a broad-brush method of classifying peoples according to their origin:

- There are the Tim Ar themselves;
- There are the Hia (< CK fi-a 'people of ten'), a catchall term for all groups derived from the Proto-Tim Ar-O cultural complex;
- There are the Kán, which refers to the various peoples of the Caber groups, particularly of the contingent of Mute Caber within the empire;
- There are the Uikúa (< CK wiqhu-a 'people of twelve'), a term grouping several related/unrelated peoples mostly on basis of who had conquered or fought them at various points;
- And there are the Kia (< CK gi-a 'people of six'), which is essentially a wastebasket taxon for everybody else.

This was somewhat inherited from the Classical Khaya, who basically filed peoples in bins depending on the number base they count in. The Khaya themselves, for example, had a base-twelve system; the Tim Ar used base-ten. In modern usage, the terms aren't so much markers of number as they are of geographic and cultural reference—e.g. there are groups classified as Kia who count in bases other than six.

Incidentally, base-six is the most-common numeric base system on Ítöð.
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Re: Twin Aster

Post by Ares Land »

Man in Space wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:01 pm Plurals in CT operate by one of a few mechanisms. There are three typical methods, depending on the shape of the word: Metathesis, decomposition, and a pluralizing particle.

(...)
That is extremely cool.
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Re: Twin Aster

Post by Vilike »

So Tim Ar is plural. What about the other people names? Are they collectives, or can they be pluralised according to the rules found in this post?
Yaa unák thual na !
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Man in Space
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Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

Ares Land wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:07 am
Man in Space wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:01 pm Plurals in CT operate by one of a few mechanisms. There are three typical methods, depending on the shape of the word: Metathesis, decomposition, and a pluralizing particle.

(...)
That is extremely cool.
Thank you! That's one of the earliest features of the language—it's about a decade old.
Vilike wrote: Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:24 am So Tim Ar is plural. What about the other people names? Are they collectives, or can they be pluralised according to the rules found in this post?
They're sort of indeclinable non-verbs. You could say, for instance, áʕe Kán hé 'he is Caber', or you could say taĝkei áłaʕ Kán ü 'the Caber (people) submitted' (implication: it was in the past and is irrelevant now), or you could say áʕe giʕüł ĝ 'us gohíe Kán ü 'the Caber ascetic is my opponent'.

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One thing I forgot to mention in the previous post is a special case of decomposed plurals. In a select few cases where the word begins with a resonant and a high-tone vowel, this will decompose into two of the same vowel, with a prefixed, low-tone vowel being attached to the consonant that begins the word and the original vowel remaining where it stands:

móm 'mother' > omóm 'mothers'
ĝóia 'ngoia plant' > oĝóia 'ngoia plants'

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CT divided the color space into three regions, namely síkna (white and warm colors), hún (black and cool colors), and kiĝ (red).

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Grammarians in CT recognize, essentially, three parts of speech: isúu ('islands', sg. sîu), ikʕe ('currents', sg. kiʕe), and eĝnr ar ('flotsam'). The categories are unusual, to say the least—isúu cover what we would consider nouns and verbs, as well as most derivational morphemes; ikʕe cover modifiers—i.e. adjectives, adverbs, numbers, measure words, and inpositions; and eĝnr ar cover everything else. Including nouns and verbs in the same category makes more sense, I think, given that CT is absolutely riddled with zero-derivation. The prototypical case of zero-derivation is that of the resultative from a verb—e.g. tékða 'day, 24-hour period' < tékða 'to return', or magneg 'blueprint, plan, schedule' < magneg 'to plan'.

The metaphor here is that a sentence is like a river. You have the primary content words—the verbs and nouns—that are the "islands" in the stream, which are affected by the currents (modifiers). Everything else is kind of just carried along by the current and floats on by.
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Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

Doing some work on calculating certain cycles…

One solar day on Ítöð is about 26.12 hours. A year is 253.10 days, or about three-quarters of an Earth year. There is also a variability cycle in the magnitude of Xi Boo A of about 9.31 local days; three of these works out to almost 28 days. I am therefore thinking that most cultures on Ítöð will have nine-day weeks and/or 28-day months (as a base).

I've had to adjust the properties of the moons because I didn't know how Hill spheres worked (or, apparently, the fields in the spreadsheet); I wanted to keep the 7:3 resonance, so this is what I ended up with:

Éĝtis Nihít: 685 km radius, 236'046 km orbit, 12.06 local days period, 0.33º angular diameter
Éĝtis Kahál: 1'971 km radius, 417'004 km orbit, 28.12 local days period, 0.55º angular diameter

Éĝtis Kahál can provide both annular and total eclipses. Its angular diameter varies from 0.53º to 0.56º; that of Xi Boötis A varies from 0.54º to 0.57º.

There is also Kóro ü, the Face. This is an asteroid that was captured into geosynchronous orbit around Ítöð and is used as a sort of traffic control and surveillance platform. The Tim Ar, naturally, run it. I'm not quite sure how big it is yet; maybe 0.6 km in diameter on its longest axis? In any case it has been significantly hollowed out. On the side facing outward there are explosive charges that serve sort of a Mutually Assured Destruction sort of purpose—as an absolute last resort it could be deorbited. On either end there are large radar arrays extending outward. There are also weapons installations facing planetward and it can serve as an orbital strike platform, and its size also serves as a defense (since nobody wants to risk blowing it up into large chunks which could wreck everything in cisplanetary space or, worse, crash into the planet below and cause significant destruction.

----

I also worked some with the Titius-Bode law and get the following:
n Number Add 4 Divide by 10 Times 1.14
1 0 4 0.4 0.456
2 3 7 0.7 0.798
3 6 10 1 1.14
4 12 16 1.6 1.824
5 24 28 2.8 3.192
6 48 52 5.2 5.928
The numbers in the rightmost column are the distances in AU. Not entirely sure of the layout of the system planets/asteroid belt(s) specifically yet.

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Ítöðkámr, or World City, is a massive planned settlement in the Kmtön n Tim Ar that was essentially set up to serve as a United Nations-sort of territory. It's built at the intersection of the equator and prime meridian of Ítöð, the idea being that it's at the zero point of the world (being located within the Kmtön, and in the Core Imperium at that, was also a consideration). Within the Kmtön, Ítöðkámr is specifically located in the namestnichestvo of Éí.

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CT had a name for Xi Boötis B in the original language, Haðál Moustá n Taáð ("King of the Sky"), though a name of more recent vintage for it is Haʕkün êr Háka ("Second Sun").
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Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

I should probably write some about CT measure words.

I want CT to have a rich supply of measure words. These will in some descendants turn into a classifier or noun-class system. Notably they all end in a nasal n which assimilates to a following consonant. This list will probably be expanded later as I get ideas for them.

átsn – people as resources (e.g. troops, staff, aides, volunteers, assistants, organizational members); livestock, agricultural animals
ðín – arms, weapons one person can operate
ðukn – servings of foodstuffs that include meat as an ingredient
ekhín – bodily functions/actions, body parts
érn – ordnance, weapons that take multiple people to operate
ësín – musical instruments
gén – people (generally)
gîn – potable liquids, drinks, beverages
gugn – stories, songs, recitals, debates, artistic or rhetorical performances
ĝen – wide objects
ĝïsn – buildings, divisions of buildings, rooms, architectural elements
héon – lights, radiation sources
hikn – cities, regions, areas, nations, geopolitical entities
ían – yellow plants
itłon – government officials, religious leaders, celebrities
în – works of art (except statues of persons)
îsn – events, occurrences, dates, schedules, routine happenings
kaln – freshwater fish
katn – agricultural or earthworking tools
kôn – violent acts; flaws, defects
lárn – containers, vessels
lën – miscellaneous, general, not otherwise specified
łên – construction tools
łíln – insects, parasites, shellfish
nekn – statues of persons
nôg – long objects
on – saltwater fish
sîrn – clouds, birds, celestial objects
tatsn – articles of clothing
ugn – black plants
ûrn – documents

kihê kôĝ kiĝgô ðáraʕ ü
six MW.violence theft serious DEF
'the six great thefts'

----

So here's the tentative layout of the system:

0 AU – Xi Boötis A
0.45 AU – Planet one (ersatz Mercury?)
0.8 AU – Ítöð
1.14 AU – Planet three (kind of a Mars-like planet)
1.8 AU – Asteroid belt
3.2 AU – Icy planet

Why no gas giants? Because they orbit Xi Boötis B; per SolStation it has at least one companion in a torch orbit. This is actually relevant to and important for my purposes—such a planet could be a candidate for a helium planet, which would provide a fantastic source of helium-3. This drives the plot in that whoever can get there first and keep control of it would have a monopoly on the helium-3 supply. Xi Boötis B gets reasonably close at its periapsis (supposedly about 16.5 AU, a little closer than Uranus), and in any event reaching it at its apoapsis (50.7 AU, a little farther out than Pluto gets) isn't too terrible with atomic rockets.
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Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

I actually think I'm going to switch up the last two entries in the planet list…3.2 AU is pretty close to the maximum stable orbital distance around Xi Boo A, per the august Dr. Wik E. Pedia, so I figure it makes sense that maybe nothing got big enough to clear the neighborhood. Also there's evidence of such a belt around Xi Boo A and I figure I might as well put one there. Would make sense to mine for volatiles and generally have some fun with rockets there.

0 AU – Xi Boötis A
0.45 AU – Planet one (ersatz Mercury?)
0.8 AU – Ítöð
1.14 AU – Planet three (kind of a Mars-like planet)
1.8 AU – Planet four (depressing ice ball)
3.2 AU – Asteroid belt

As for Xi Boo B…

0 AU – Xi Boötis B
0.04 AU – Náiráð
? – Other gas planet with an oxygenated moon used as a refining base, probably in a weird orbit

Náiráð is the helium planet, in-universe named after a deity in the pantheon of the Patchwork States (god of destruction, heat, and fire, later shoehorned into rocketeering), out-of-universe named after Winchell "Nyrath" Chung, creator of Atomic Rockets. I figured it a good a name as any, and might as well give the guy a shout-out since I made such extensive use of his work in doing the background work on all this. In-story its significance lies in the fact that it's a wonderful source of helium-3, far better than any of the balls of rock that orbit the A star. All the hydrogen got blown off so there's less filtering to do.

The downside is, the blasted planet is in a torch orbit (the period is a couple hours short of four Earth days), which makes things somewhat difficult logistically speaking. To say it's hot is an understatement. I surmise that the actual hot spot on the planet isn't dead center but offset somewhat; I seem to recall there's at least one similar exoplanet. It's pretty much all whites and grays, except the eye of the mega-hurricane on the day side is a deep jet black. I don't know whether or not it'd be hot enough for the night side to glow. To get there from the second planet's moon, you have to bleed off a lot of energy to get in close enough, which is somewhat of a downer. But hey, energy monopoly.

As for the second planet, I'm guessing it'll be in a weird orbit thanks to the migration of Náiráð. Not exactly sure what that'll look like as of yet.

----

Tim Ar bladeships (nketegru ar, from nke 'type of bladed weapon' + tegru 'ship, vessel', so named because they cut through space like a knife) are multipurpose in nature, but the most important use case is that they're designed to be able to quickly shuttle people and cargo to and from Náiráð. To that end, they use Zubrin's nuclear salt water engines (NSWRs). If they blew off everything in an epic blaze of glory they could get up to one or two percent lightspeed, though that would be idiotic.

As it stands, they're torchships. The relevant uranium is blown out the back of the ship at well above escape velocity so they don't have to worry about it hanging around and poisoning the system.

Bladeships have several things going for them:
- You don't dare attack one in orbit (either from another in-orbit ship or from a terrestrial source) because the propulsion system is just as likely to ruin your day as it is the ship's if the engine is damaged, and in any case they're armed to the teeth themselves. Not that it's strictly-speaking necessary, as if the business end is pointed at you you're likely to suffer existence failure if they so much as burp the engines.
- Notwithstanding the uranium or plutonium required to power the thing, you can use your basic water as the reaction mass.
- High specific impulse and high thrust. Launch windows? Where we're going, we don't need launch windows. And you can get there in style, accelerating—in the scientific sense of the word—all the way, except for the brief skew flip in the middle.
- Mass budgets aren't as much of a concern, and you can shuffle along with large payloads and/or many personnel.
- If nothing else, they're impressive and terrifying. Only the Tim Ar have them, and woe betide you if you forget it.

Bladeship names tend to be overly grandiose, anthropomorphized, and (at least in theory) badass, though whoever names the ships tries too hard. Translations include:
- My Footprint Is Destruction
- I Lay Waste to Continents
- My Voice Brings Ruin
- I See All
- The Moons Are My Respite
- I Bring Light to Worlds
- The Wind Is My Brother
- In My Shadow is Terror
- I Extinguish Nations
- Lightning Obeys Me
- Mountains Burn Beneath Me
- In My Reflection Is Death
- The Night Fears Me
- Submit to Me and Live
- I Give No Quarter
- The World Disappoints Me
- I Cause Mass Extinctions
- Attack Me and Die
- I Spread Fire Between the Stars
- On My Shoulders Is Civilization
- Provoke Me Not
- I Command the Meteor
Ares Land
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Re: Twin Aster

Post by Ares Land »

(I'm an Atomic Rockets fan too myself and Winchell Chung certainly deserves at least one planet named after him!)

These are really the best ship names anyone ever came up with since Iain M. Banks! I am very impressed with the idea.
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Re: Twin Aster

Post by Raphael »

Ares Land wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:43 am These are really the best ship names anyone ever came up with since Iain M. Banks! I am very impressed with the idea.
Seconded!
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Re: Twin Aster

Post by Qwynegold »

Man in Space wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:01 pm Plurals in CT operate by one of a few mechanisms. There are three typical methods, depending on the shape of the word: Metathesis, decomposition, and a pluralizing particle.
I like that you've used very different kinds of morphology for this. It's so simple and natural, yet I don't think I've done that for any conlang.
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Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

Ares Land wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:43 am(I'm an Atomic Rockets fan too myself and Winchell Chung certainly deserves at least one planet named after him!)
It really is a great resource.
Raphael wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:52 am
Ares Land wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:43 amThese are really the best ship names anyone ever came up with since Iain M. Banks! I am very impressed with the idea.
Seconded!
:oops: Thank you!
Qwynegold wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:54 pm
Man in Space wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:01 pmPlurals in CT operate by one of a few mechanisms. There are three typical methods, depending on the shape of the word: Metathesis, decomposition, and a pluralizing particle.
I like that you've used very different kinds of morphology for this. It's so simple and natural, yet I don't think I've done that for any conlang.
Thanks! What's more, these are all consequences of sound laws and sandhi historically in the language.

Speaking of CT, I was typesetting some stuff set in Twin Aster for a creative exercise given me by my mentor, and I discovered the font's character support is lacking (I really, really like the TT Marxiana family in a two-column setup. It's super neat), so I have decided to redo the romanization as follows:

/m n ŋ/ m n ĝ
/t k/ t k
/θ s ɬ x h/ ð s ł ḫ h
/ɹ l ʕ/ r l g

Vowels are the same as before.

Some nketeḫru ar names in the original:

Ágeuḫtúðtáḫkitléiłĝ'us
áge uḫtúð táḫkitl éił n ĝus
COP destroy footprint within GEN 1SG
'In My Footprint Is Destruction'

Nïḫtíðííhrĝus
nïḫtíðí /hír ĝus
sack land/PL 1SG
'I Lay Waste to Continents'

Laghárïsakarésámanüĝ'us
laghá rïsakaré sáman ü n ĝus
cause.VBLZ disaster.area voice DEF GEN 1SG
'My Voice Brings Ruin'

Genrmrłámûsĝus
genr mr łá mûs ĝus
observe all.DIST and.N all.PROX 1SG
'I See All'

Ágeðénrüĝ'uséĝtisłámïsteḫ
áge ðénr ü n ĝus Éĝtis łá Mïsteḫ
COP rest DEF GEN 1SG larger.moon and.N smaller.moon
'The Moons Are My Respite'

Lagháikmĝusítöðséḫar
laghá ikm ĝus ítöð séḫ ar
cause.VBLZ daylight 1SG world for PL
'I Bring Light to Worlds'

Ágehöĝ'usḫuúü
áge hö n ĝus ḫuú ü
COP brother GEN 1SG wind DEF
'The Wind Is My Brother' (The missing ü there is not a typo; this moniker suggests there may be brothers other than the wind as well)

Ágeáłiikránéiłüĝ'us
áge áłi ikrán éił ü n ĝus
COP terror shadow within DEF GEN 1SG
'In My Shadow Is Terror'

Mértakontákĝus
mértak /noták ĝus
cull country/PL 1SG
'I Extinguish Nations'

Hétrágĝusïlaĝüar
hétrág ĝus ïlaĝ ü ar
obey 1SG lightning DEF PL
'Lightning Obeys Me'

Intëĝ'sekáhrakĝusgú
intëĝ ĝsek /hárak ĝus gú
RFLX burn mountain/PL 1SG under
'Mountains Burn Beneath Me'

Ágenáaḫlteĝtaðéiłüĝ'us
áge náaḫl teĝtað éił ü n ĝus
COP kill reflect.image within DEF GEN 1SG
'In My Reflection Is Death'

Téhráłiḫiłámĝushaekáhnü
téhr áłi ḫiłám ĝus hae káhn ü
feel.emotion fear come.from.ATEL 1SG REL night DEF
'The Night Fears Me'

Taĝkeiĝusöðtöhír
taĝkei ĝus öð töhír
submit.to 1SG and.V survive
'Submit to Me and Live'

Níirahðálsëosréamĝus
níir /haðál sëos réam
accept person.NMLZ surrender none.MED 1SG
'I Give No Quarter'

Trmaĝtéĝ'usítöðü
tr maĝtéĝ ĝus ítöð ü
cause.state.VBLZ disappointment 1SG world DEF
'The World Disappoints Me'

Trtiúlóðharmûsĝus
tr tiúl /ðóhar mûs ĝus
cause.state.VBLZ null species/PL all.PROX 1SG
'I Cause Mass Extinctions'

Háḫáðĝusöðsihtí
háḫáð ĝus öð sihtí
lash.out.at 1SG and.V die
'Attack Me and Die' (this wouldn't be understood as 'I attack and die' because háḫáð kind of forces the first argument to be parsed as an object)

Sôłĝtekĝusutihénsïrsîü
sôł ĝtek ĝus /tühén sïrsî ü
spread fire 1SG star/PL among DEF
'I Spread Fire Between the Stars'

Ágeúhtrkehsélüekmárlüĝ'us
áge úh tr kehsél ü /kemár l ü n ĝus
COP PASS cause.state.VBLZ proper DEF shoulder/PL on DEF GEN 1SG
'On My Shoulders Is Civilization'

Ðênkoĝusr
ðênko ĝus r
agitate 1SG NEG
'Provoke Me Not' (kind of playing with the syntax a bit; it would have the sense of 'provoke not me', but this is done to emphasize that ĝus is not the subject)

Tiḫkóramsnáĝus
tiḫkór /masná ĝus
command shooting.star/PL 1SG
'I Command the Meteor' (actually kind of a double-meaning here, as masná also means 'bullet', 'missile', or 'projectile')
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Re: Twin Aster

Post by bradrn »

Man in Space wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:55 am
Qwynegold wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:54 pm
Man in Space wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:01 pmPlurals in CT operate by one of a few mechanisms. There are three typical methods, depending on the shape of the word: Metathesis, decomposition, and a pluralizing particle.
I like that you've used very different kinds of morphology for this. It's so simple and natural, yet I don't think I've done that for any conlang.
Thanks! What's more, these are all consequences of sound laws and sandhi historically in the language.
I’d be really interested in knowing how these evolved!
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Re: Twin Aster

Post by Qwynegold »

Man in Space wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:55 amThanks! What's more, these are all consequences of sound laws and sandhi historically in the language.
Oh, that's nice! :D
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Man in Space
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Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

bradrn wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:15 pm
Man in Space wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:55 am
Qwynegold wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:54 pmI like that you've used very different kinds of morphology for this. It's so simple and natural, yet I don't think I've done that for any conlang.
Thanks! What's more, these are all consequences of sound laws and sandhi historically in the language.
I’d be really interested in knowing how these evolved!
Qwynegold wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:43 am
Man in Space wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:55 amThanks! What's more, these are all consequences of sound laws and sandhi historically in the language.
Oh, that's nice! :D
So basically what happened was, back in the day there was this pluralizing particle *aɹ in PTO. As a function word, it eroded into something like *ɐɹ or *əɹ and ended up having some sort of sandhi effect on the following initials when it was of shape CV-. Basically:

aɹ#CV → ə=CV (maybe via → V=CV?) → #VC

----

I was typesetting my CT grammar doc in LaTeX today and I noticed something about the plurals. It makes me want to make Eastern and Central CT a clade where initial high vowels delete except before CC. Why? Because this:

tük 'heap' ~ utiktük ~ tik
tël 'field of study' ~ itoltël ~ tol
ḫêł 'mess' ~ iḫółḫêł ~ ḫół
kïrï 'child' ~ ikurikïrï ~ kuri

This causes the vowel alternation to be the sole arbiter of whether or not it's plural.

Eastern Tim Ar also has the quirk of labializing velars before rounded vowels and then simplifying the hybrid vowels, so we'd get alternations like kuru ~ puru and ḫół ~ fół.

----

So, redoing changes to Central Tim Ar in light of this:

[- cons + hi] → Ø / #_ ! _CC unless it's _NC in which case NC assimilates and becomes a prenasalized stop
æ → a
h → s / E_
h → f / B_
h → Ø
m n ŋ → mb nd ŋg / _{a,ʕ}
ʕ → ŋ / _%
ʕ → Ø / [+ cons + vc]_, _[+ cons + vc]
ʕ → h
ɤ ɯ → o u
d g → z ɣ / V_
{zɹ,ɹz,ɮɹ,ɹɮ} {zl,lz,ɮl,lɮ} → ɹː lː
t d → ts dz / _E
ai ay au → e ø o
a → Ø / _V
i y u → ts tf f / _V
á é ǿ í ý ó ú → ɨ i̯a i̯a i̯e i̯ø u̯a u̯o
ɣVɣ → ɣV
F → Ø / _#
ɬ ɮ → ʃ l
θ ð → s ɹ
{ɹ,l} → ʃ / _#
ei øy ou → e ø o
N → Ø / _F
V → Ø / Vɣ_
sts zdz → st zd vel. sim.

So Tim Ar /tìm àɹ/ becomes [tsimbaʃ] Tzimbach. Let's see some other words…

mkíḫ [m̩gíx] 'group of provinces' → [ŋ̩gi̯e] ngie
hagm [haʕm̩] 'region' → [ahm̩] ahm
kǽmr [kámɹ̩] 'city' → [kɨmʃ] câmch
iteĝ [ìdèŋ] 'table' → [tseŋ] tzeng
haðál [hàðál] 'person' → [azɨʃ] azâch
kuasa [kùàzà] 'landmark' → [kfz] cfaza
síkna [sígnà] 'white' → [si̯ei̯nda] sieinda
hún [hún] 'black' → [u̯on] uon
kiĝ [kìŋ] 'red' → [kiŋ] quing
ténḫo nihít [ténɣò nìhít] 'ninety' → [tsi̯ai̯nisi̯et] tziainisiet
ténḫo [ténɣò] 'one hundred' → [tsi̯ai̯] tziai
ténḫo kahál [ténɣò kàhál] 'one hundred ten' → [tsi̯ai̯ɨʃ] tziaiâch (ooh, I really like this)
kátgïn [kádʕɯ̀n] 'wallet, purse' → [kɨzun] câzun
îĝté [ɯ́ŋdé] 'snack, light meal' → [ndzi̯a] ndzia
naá [nàá] 'bread' → [ndɨ] ndâ
höhsë [hø̀hsɤ̀] 'four' → [øsso] œsso
uḫtúð [ùxtúθ] 'destroy' → [stu̯o] stuo
kólïs [kólɯ̀s] 'copper' → [ku̯alu] qualu
gákłi [ʕákɬì] 'silver' → [hɨkɬi] hâcchi
ûn [ýn] 'gold' → [i̯œn] iœn
łeðáĝ [ɬèðǽŋ] 'be in front of' → [ʃeɹɨŋ] cherâng
hatraák [hàdɹàák] 'distend' → [aɹːɨk] arrâc
kîtren [kɯ́dɹèn] 'report to' → [ku̯oɹːen] quorren
uhḫa [ùhxà] 'tie up, bind, fasten' → [xa] gha
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Man in Space
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Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

Let's try some changes to Eastern Tim Ar, shall we?

[- cons + hi] → Ø / #_
V → Ø / [+ same V](C)_# (tone not important for this rule)
ŋ k g x ɣ → m p b f v / _{y,ø,u,o}
y ø ɯ ɤ → i e u o
æ → e
{θ,ð} → j
ʕ → Ø / V_
ʕ → j
VjV → Vj for same V, with contour assimilation
VV → V for same V, with contour assimilation
C̩ → Ce (takes the same tone as the preceding vowel in the word, if any; otherwise goes to low tone)
V(h) → Ø / _V
ks kɬ → st st
Nasal assimilation to following obstruents, otherwise homorganic stop insertion
{p,b} {t,d} {k,g} → w j ʕ / V_%
e…e i…i a…a o…o u…u → je…e je…i ʕa…a wo…o wo…u
s z ɬ ɮ → ʃ ʒ s z
Final high syllable attracts stress, otherwise stress the penult where it exists, then dump tones
i u → je jo / _{x,ɣ,ŋ}
{x,ɣ} → Ø / _%
e o i u → a a e o / _ʕ, ʕ_
kj gj → ʃ ʒ
Stressed in the penult:
a e o → aj ej oj / _…e
a e o → aw ew ow / _…o
e o → i u / posttonic ultima
ij aʕ uw → je ʕa wo /
{ɹ,l} → j / _#
ʕ → Ø / _V{w,j}
ʕC → Cː
C → Ø / _ʕ
h → Ø / #_Vj
h → j / #_
V → Ø / before same V unless this would delete the stressed vowel, in which case delete the unstressed one instead
t d k g → s z ʃ ʒ / _{j,i}

mkíḫ [m̩gíx] 'group of provinces' → [miˈʒe] migié
hagm [haʕm̩] 'region' → [ˈajmi] ájmi
Tim Ar [tìm àɹ] → [ˈsjama] Sjáma
kámr [kǽmɹ̩] 'city' → [ʃimˈbɹe] cimbré
síkna [sígnà] 'white' → [ˈʃenna] ciénna
hún [hún] 'black' → [jun] jun
kiĝ [kìŋ] 'red' → [ʃeŋ] cieng
ténḫo nihít [ténɣò nìhít] 'ninety' → [simvoˈnje] simvonjé
ténḫo [ténɣò] 'one hundred' → [ˈtemvu] témvu
ténḫo kahál [ténɣò kàhál] 'one hundred ten' → [sjamˈva] sjamvá
Qwynegold
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Re: Twin Aster

Post by Qwynegold »

Whoa, they both became totally unrecognizable. But how come you chose a romlang spelling for Central Tim Ar?
Ares Land
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Re: Twin Aster

Post by Ares Land »

Thumbs up!

(To the defense of romlang orthographies, they do give pretty good hints on how words are supposed to be pronounced.)
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Rounin Ryuuji
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Re: Twin Aster

Post by Rounin Ryuuji »

My guess was because it looks nice.
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