Of Schwa Secundum

Natural languages and linguistics
Post Reply
User avatar
alice
Posts: 961
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:15 am
Location: 'twixt Survival and Guilt

Of Schwa Secundum

Post by alice »

Did this ever amount to anything? Prokosch mentions it a lot, but all I can find out is that it was something postulated to break up awkward consonnat clusters.
Self-referential signatures are for people too boring to come up with more interesting alternatives.
User avatar
WeepingElf
Posts: 1506
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:39 pm
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
Contact:

Re: Of Schwa Secundum

Post by WeepingElf »

alice wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 12:52 pm Did this ever amount to anything? Prokosch mentions it a lot, but all I can find out is that it was something postulated to break up awkward consonnat clusters.
I don't know. Some handbooks (e.g., Fortson) don't even mention it at all, so it is probably just an outdated hypothesis.
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
My conlang pages
Nortaneous
Posts: 1655
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:29 am

Re: Of Schwa Secundum

Post by Nortaneous »

I don't think it's outdated. Gasiorowski appeals to schwa secundum to explain Latin quattuor < *kʷətwṓr (similarly quadru- < *kʷətwr̥- or *kʷətru-); this could possibly also be used for Albanian katër, since PIE *e regularly becomes je ~ ie, although I don't know off the top of my head how stress developed in Albanian.
Duaj teibohnggoe kyoe' quaqtoeq lucj lhaj k'yoejdej noeyn tucj.
K'yoejdaq fohm q'ujdoe duaj teibohnggoen dlehq lucj.
Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq.
User avatar
WeepingElf
Posts: 1506
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:39 pm
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
Contact:

Re: Of Schwa Secundum

Post by WeepingElf »

I have to correct myself: Fortson does mention it, though only briefly (giving the *kwtwor- example), and does not discuss it any further.
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
My conlang pages
Nortaneous
Posts: 1655
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:29 am

Re: Of Schwa Secundum

Post by Nortaneous »

OTOH, this claims that schwa secundum has been eliminated.

Checking Orel, it seems that, although IE *e sometimes > ja ~ a, this can't be the case for "four" - *e > ja is sporadic and possibly irregular, but ja > a after c ç q gj Cl Cr and before PAlb. *ts *dz *nt *nd *mb... except this presumably predates the fronting of the palatovelars to alveolar affricates (if that's what they ever were - I don't know why he reconstructs them except as the most likely intermediate), because *ja is maintained (i.e. not > a) before *Ḱs > PAlb. *TS.

It's arguably simpler to call it irregular reduction, although we technically could reconstruct a rare *ə giving Lat. and Alb. a. Are there other cases?

(Orel also reconstructs PIE *ə, but this seems to actually be a syllabic laryngeal.)
Duaj teibohnggoe kyoe' quaqtoeq lucj lhaj k'yoejdej noeyn tucj.
K'yoejdaq fohm q'ujdoe duaj teibohnggoen dlehq lucj.
Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq.
User avatar
WeepingElf
Posts: 1506
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:39 pm
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
Contact:

Re: Of Schwa Secundum

Post by WeepingElf »

Nortaneous wrote: Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:36 pm (Orel also reconstructs PIE *ə, but this seems to actually be a syllabic laryngeal.)
That schwa has been reconstructed much earlier than schwa secundum, and is the reason why the latter is called "schwa secundum".
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
My conlang pages
Nortaneous
Posts: 1655
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:29 am

Re: Of Schwa Secundum

Post by Nortaneous »

Trying to finally slog through Malzahn 2010...
Finally, PIE schwa secundum also resulted in that [Early Proto-Tocharian non-palatalizing] *ä, to judge from *kätna- = Gk. skidna- from PIE *(s)kₔdneH-.
Duaj teibohnggoe kyoe' quaqtoeq lucj lhaj k'yoejdej noeyn tucj.
K'yoejdaq fohm q'ujdoe duaj teibohnggoen dlehq lucj.
Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq.
Post Reply