Simbri lessons. (Lesson 3: What am I eating?)

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Ares Land
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Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:35 pm

Simbri lessons. (Lesson 3: What am I eating?)

Post by Ares Land »

I thought I'd try something different for a change: presenting language in a 'language textbook' format.
We'll see if people are interested!

Before I go on with an in-universe introduction, here are some features of Simbri that might be of interest:
  • The morphology is probably rich enough to qualify as polysynthetic.
  • It makes use of non-concatenative morphology while being quite far from the Semitic model.
  • Aspect is combined with voice.
  • Nouns distinguish 7 genders and mark both dual and plural.
  • It may be characterized as both omnipredicative and precategorial, that is to say I've played quite a bit with the noun-verb distinction.
  • Word order is free (or actually, based on focus and newsworthiness) and may involve scrambling and separating noun phrases.
A brief introduction.

Simbri (native simri ['siᵐb.ri]) is one of the languages of the Tarandim civilization or Tarande, in the northern hemisphere of the planet Massotis, on the eastern coast of the Angry and Serene Seas.

The Tarandim see their civilization as continuously existing for several millenia; they are cultural descendants of the first agriculturalists in the Kandô valley.
They are organized, politically, as rival city states (sandi), most of which are monarchies (bommi) although a few are republics (sibmi) or monastic theocracies (seqchimin) The largest states are Arba and Qin, both kingdoms, and both about the size of England.

The society is matrilinear and ambilocal. Wealth -- which mostly means land -- is held in common by sissas ('commune, village, neighborhood'). Sissix are often endogamous, changing one's sissas is infrequent, but not unheard of.
A sissas is ruled by various office-holders, among which the most prominent is the mayan, typically a military officer.
The able-bodied of the sissas -- that is, men until middle age and, suprisingly, unmarried women -- acts as a military unit in battle, under the command of the mayan.

Tarandim society is mainly agrarian, the chief crops being yeymo (a variety of amaranth), ôr (a grass distantly related to wheat), and potatoes (bapa). Domesticated animals include the dog (mas), the cat (natle, similar to our domestic cat, but actually a close relative of the ocelot), the kâdas (Hippidion, a donkey-like equine), the motas (a giant llama), the mountain goat (xarô), and the momar (an edible, pig-sized rodents).
Horses (nâtchi) and cattle (qammotox) are less common.

Tarandim society is a complex patchwork of various ethnic groups: Katli, Nebari, Newri, Poni, Ôcharandim, etc... held together (barely) by a shared religion and a sense of common history. In particular, priestly orders are more or less neutral with respect to state or ethnicity.
The linguistic situation is equally complex; Simbri acquired a prominent position in the last few centuries, through the combined influence of powerful military alliances and monastic orders. It is now the lingua franca across the whole Tarande.

Simbri can be described as a group of competing dialects, variously influencing and being influenced by each other and the regional languages. There are significant lexical differences, notable phonological variations, some differences in morphology and very little in syntax. Simbri dialects remain generally mutually intelligible.

These lessons will focus on the dialect of the Nandô Bollô, the area where the bulk of Earth-Massotis contact occurs. That dialect has the additional advantage of holding a sort of middle ground between the competing standards of Cardosa, Loqris and Taras.

Lesson 1. Phonology
This is where I'm supposed to run through the alphabet, but as people here are linguistically knowledgeable (impressively so) I can dispense with that and use the IPA instead.

Consonants
M Alveolar Lateral Post-Alveolar Palatal Velar Uvular
Nasal m [m] ~ [ᵐb] n [n] ~ [ŋ] ~ [ⁿd] ny [ɲ]
Stop p [p] t [t] c [c] k [c] ~ [k] q [ʔ] ~ [q] ~ [ʄ]
Implosive b [ɓ] ~ d [ɗ] ~ [d] j [ʄ]
Affricate tl [t͡ɬ] ch [t͡ʃ]
Fricative s [s] x [ç]
Approximant w [w] ~ [ʋ] r [r] l [l] y ll [ʎ]
Vowels
Front Central Back
Close i
Close-mid e [e] ~ [ɛ] ô [əʊ] ~ [uː]
Open-mid o [ɔ] ~ [o]
Open a [ä] â [ɑʶ]
A few notes:
  • c and k only contrast before a, â, o, ô. k before a front vowel is realized [c]
    Likewise, q is realized [ʄ], like j before a front vowel.
In my romanization I use only k, q before front vowels.
  • q is realized as a glottal stop at the end of a syllabe: larmaq ['lar.maʔ] 'to remember'.
  • b, d, j are implosives. The corresponding plain voiced stops are likely to be mistaken for nasals.
  • One exception: b and d are realized as plain voiced after m, n.
  • The nasals m, n are realized as prenasalized stops before r: simbri ['siᵐb.ri], anrer ['aⁿd.rer].
  • ll, ny are always geminated between vowels: xalli [çaʎ.ʎi] 'beautiful', nanya ['naɲ.ɲa] 'afraid'
  • n is pronounced [ŋ] before another consonant (except d and r): manqâ ['maŋ.qɑ] 'looked for'.
  • w is pronounced [ʋ] before another consonant: qawchô ['qaʋ.t͡ʃuː], 'to undress'.
Simbri has four short vowels: a, e, i, o. Generally e, o are realized [e, o] in open syllables: motas ['mo.tas], Tarande [ta.'ran.de], and [ɛ, ɔ] in closed syllables: yeymo ['jɛj.mo], motox ['mo.tɔç].
The pronunciation of the vowels â, ô is quite variable. The Nandô Bollô dialect has [ɑʶ, əʊ], but other common realizations are [ɑː], [o:]. ô is often realized [u:] word-finally: Kandô ['kan.du:].

The distinction between r and l is hardly phonemic, as these are only distinguished word-finally: aner 'to cook' ~ anel 'saucer'. l never occurs medially, while r can't occur word-initially.
Our reference, the Nandô Bollô dialects, like many other dialects actually merges both: r is realized /l/ word finally. The distinction is kept however, in the dialects of Lowqris and Cardosa.

Syllable structure
Simbri allows the following syllable structures:
V
VC
CV
CVC

Consonant clusters are only acceptable medially, and are restricted to two consonants. Not all clusters are acceptable -- we'll see in the following lessons which are illegal and how they are resolved.
One strategy for resolving illegal clusters is worth mentioning at the outset however:

Vowel weakening.
Simbri morphology makes heavy use of a syncope: verbal morphology, in particular, relies heavily on vowel change and vowel deletion.
When the deletion of a vowel would lead to an illegal cluster, the vowel is sometimes weakened instead.
Weak vowels are indicated with a breve: ă, ӗ, ĭ, ŏ in my romanization. (The native script simply omits them):
Watleqarmĭbar 'I remember him suddenly'. Lonŏyrĭtlomris 'he makes his own shoes'.
Weak vowels are noticeably shorter, and generally voiceless.


Stress and syllables

Aside from â and ô in some dialects, there are no diphtongs in simbri. Two adjacent vowels form two distinct syllables:
taiqo ['ta.i.qo] 'If he knew'.
Stress is determined according to the following rules:
  • Stress the penultimate vowel, but:
  • Don't count the weakened vowels.
  • If the stress vowel is in hiatus with a preceding vowel, move the stress to the preceding vowel.
  • Finally, if the penultimate vowel follows b or d, the stress moves to the last vowel.

    A few examples:
    watleqarmĭbar
    Cardosa
    taiqo

    Monosyllables are naturally enough stressed on their one syllable:

    ma 'pyramid'
    bon 'king'
    yin 'there is, it is'

    All syllables should be of roughly equal length, regardless of stress, except for â, ô (a little longer) and weak vowels (noticeably shorter).
    Stressed syllables are both louder and higher in pitch, but the pitch variation is the more important of the two.
    Finally, being stressed or unstressed never changes vowel quality.


    Exercises:

    Check the following sentences and see if you can place stress correctly. (Bonus point for trying to pronounce them!):

    Waybŏnicomon! 'I give you a royal order!'
    Yin iynĭbayam 'He's making a sword'.
    Tletonenrĭwisi an tlecayin. 'He dislikes women, especially his daughters'.
    Yin sewannin tlebaqo sômâ. 'This panther has eaten grandma.'
    Noyindi watlexwatcham wobis tlesâs. 'I made her sister give the ball to Noyin'.
    Later ya yin watloyin dara. Askĕrim odeqtis. 'I'd like to go to Earth. They have ice cream there.'
Last edited by Ares Land on Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:33 am, edited 4 times in total.
bradrn
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Re: Simbri lessons.

Post by bradrn »

Good to see more of Simbri! It’s always looked pretty interesting from what you’ve said about it. I eagerly await the promised 10000 words on verbal morphology
Ares Land wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:00 pm Consonants
M Alveolar Lateral Post-Alveolar Palatal Velar Uvular
Nasal m [m] ~ [ᵐb] n [n] ~ [ŋ] ~ [ⁿd] ny [ɲ]
Stop p [p] t [k] c [c] k [c] ~ [k] q [ʔ] ~ [q] ~ [ʄ]
Implosive b [ɓ] ~ d [ɗ] ~ [d] j [ʄ]
Affricate tl [t͡ɬ] ch [t͡ʃ]
Fricative s [s] x [ç]
Approximant w [w] ~ [ʋ] r [r] l [l] y ll [ʎ]
Vowels
Front Central Back
Close i
Close-mid e [e] ~ [ɛ] ô [əʊ] ~ [uː]
Open-mid o [ɔ] ~ [o]
Open a [ä] â [ɑʶ]
Surely ⟨t⟩ should be /t/ rather than /k/?

I must say, I quite like this phonology… it’s surprisingly close to that of my current language, except for your palatals and implosives. The allophony is also pretty impressive.
Stress is determined according to the following rules:
  • Stress the penultimate vowel, but:
  • Don't count the weakened vowels.
  • If the stress vowel is in hiatus with a preceding vowel, move the stress to the preceding vowel.
  • Finally, if the penultimate vowel follows b or d, the stress moves to the last vowel.

    A few examples:
    watleqarmĭbar
    Cardosa
    taiqo
Shouldn’t this be [cärˈdɔsä] by those rules?
Check the following sentences and see if you can place stress correctly. (Bonus point for trying to pronounce them!):

Waybŏnicomon! 'I give you a royal order!'
Yin Iynĭbayam 'He's making a sword'.
Tletonenrĭwisi an tlecayin. 'He dislikes women, especially his daughters'.
Yin sewannin tlebaqo sômâ. 'This panther has eaten grandma.'
Noyindi watlexwatcham wobis tlesâs. 'I made her sister give the ball to Noyin'.
Later ya yin watloyin dara. Askĕrim odeqtis. 'I'd like to go to Earth. They have ice cream there.'
I shall have to try this, especially since I’ve already had some Simbri pronunciation practise.
Conlangs: Scratchpad | Texts | antilanguage
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices

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Ares Land
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Re: Simbri lessons.

Post by Ares Land »

Thanks for the feedback!
bradrn wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:42 pm Surely ⟨t⟩ should be /t/ rather than /k/?
Yes, thanks for catching that!
Shouldn’t this be [cärˈdɔsä] by those rules?
Stress is generally on the penultimate syllable, but not if it starts with b, d. In that case it moves to the last syllable.
So it's really [cär.ɗoˈsä]. (the d is implosive, and the o is close-mid since the syllable is open.)
Zju
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Re: Simbri lessons.

Post by Zju »

How come [q] became [ʄ] in front of front vowels? Especially given that /k/ seems unaffected by that shift. Are the diachronics worked out?

[q] and [ʄ] share no features, so surely any sound change that turned the former into the latter would have changed the phoneme distribution, rather than increased the allophony.
/j/ <j>

Ɂaləɂahina asəkipaɂə ileku omkiroro salka.
Loɂ ɂerleku asəɂulŋusikraɂə seləɂahina əɂətlahɂun əiŋɂiɂŋa.
Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ. Hərlaɂ.
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Vilike
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Re: Simbri lessons.

Post by Vilike »

Ares Land wrote: Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:00 pm
Waybŏnicomon! 'I give you a royal order!'
Yin Iynĭbayam 'He's making a sword'.
Tletonenrĭwisi an tlecayin. 'He dislikes women, especially his daughters'.
Yin sewannin tlebaqo sômâ. 'This panther has eaten grandma.'
Noyindi watlexwatcham wobis tlesâs. 'I made her sister give the ball to Noyin'.
Later ya yin watloyin dara. Askĕrim odeqtis. 'I'd like to go to Earth. They have ice cream there.'
More: show
Waybŏnicomon!
Yin Iynĭbayam
Tletonenrĭwisi an tlecayin.
Yin sewannin tlebaqo sômâ.
Noyindi watlexwatcham wobis tlesâs.
Later ya yin watloyin dara. Askĕrim odeqtis.
As I am dubious wrt my ability to pronounce voiceless vowels between voiced consonants, I shall not attempt a recording
Yaa unák thual na !
Ares Land
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Re: Simbri lessons.

Post by Ares Land »

Zju wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:52 am How come [q] became [ʄ] in front of front vowels? Especially given that /k/ seems unaffected by that shift. Are the diachronics worked out?

[q] and [ʄ] share no features, so surely any sound change that turned the former into the latter would have changed the phoneme distribution, rather than increased the allophony.
Good question!
Yep, the diachronics are worked out and /k/ is affected.
k → c before front vowels or /j/
q → qj → ʔj → ʄ before front vowels or /j/

Looking at it rigorously, [ʄ] isn't an allophone of /q/, and [c] isn't an allophone of /k/. There are four separate phonemes, and as it happens /k/ and /q/ just don't occur before front vowels.

But Simbri morphology uses vowel change a great deal, and a front vowel is often replaced for a back-vowel (or vice-versa), so it's a lot simpler to consider that they can be allophones, and to consider that the consonant is unaffected by the change.
For instance: tlebaqo [t͡ɬeɓaqo] 'it has eaten her' → tlebaqi [t͡ɬeɓaʄi] 'they have eaten her'.
Ares Land
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Re: Simbri lessons.

Post by Ares Land »

Vilike wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:40 am
All of these are correct.
bradrn
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Re: Simbri lessons.

Post by bradrn »

Ares Land wrote: Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:22 am
Shouldn’t this be [cärˈdɔsä] by those rules?
Stress is generally on the penultimate syllable, but not if it starts with b, d. In that case it moves to the last syllable.
So it's really [cär.ɗoˈsä]. (the d is implosive, and the o is close-mid since the syllable is open.)
Ah, somehow I didn’t notice that.

-------

OK, so I tried my hand at recording those sentences, and here’s the result: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ts3xvcfnkgk7g ... i.wav?dl=0. Some observations:
  • By far the most difficult part of these sentences was devoicing the reduced vowels. In fact, I mostly couldn’t do this at all (with the exception of the word tletonenrĭwisi, and even then I ended up devoicing the adjacent sounds as well). I’d actually go even further, and say that uniformly devoicing the short vowels strikes me as rather implausible on phonetic grounds, especially when they’re frequently next to sounds like nasals and implosives (which are about as fully voiced as you can get). I suggest rather making it assimilate in voice to the surrounding sounds: voiced next to voiced sounds, voiceless next to voiceless sounds.
  • On the other hand, making them extra-short came out rather well. The length distinction is particularly clear on a spectrogram.
  • Amongst the consonants, I struggled the most with [q c], two consonants which for some reason I have never been able to pronounce easily. Surprisingly, I also found [tɬ] difficult, even though it is in my current conlang.
  • I also struggled with [ɑʶ]… when I attempted it, I felt a bit like I was trying to strangle myself! I suspect I was actually epiglottalising rather than uvularising this sound. (How does one uvularise a sound like [ɑ] anyway? [æʶ], yes, but [ɑ] is already pronounced farther back than the uvula!)
And here’s the IPA I transcribed, if anyone is interested:
More: show
Waybŏnicomon! 'I give you a royal order!'

[wäjɓŏniˈcomɔn]

Yin Iynĭbayam 'He's making a sword'.

[jin ijnĭɓäˈjäm]

Tletonenrĭwisi an tlecayin. 'He dislikes women, especially his daughters'.

[t͡ɬetɔnɛⁿdrĭˈwisi an t͡ɬeˈcäjin]

Yin sewannin tlebaqo sômâ. 'This panther has eaten grandma.'

[jin seˈwännin t͡ɬeɓaˈqo ˈsə͡ʊmɑʶ]

Noyindi watlexwatcham wobis tlesâs. 'I made her sister give the ball to Noyin'.

[noˈjindi wät͡ɬɛçˈwätt͡ʃäm ˈwoɓis ˈt͡ɬesɑʶs]

Later ya yin watloyin dara. Askĕrim odeqtis. 'I'd like to go to Earth. They have ice cream there.'

[ˈlatɛr ja jin waˈt͡ɬojin ɗäˈrä ‖ ˈäskĕrim oɗeʔˈtis]
Conlangs: Scratchpad | Texts | antilanguage
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices

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Ares Land
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Re: Simbri lessons.

Post by Ares Land »

Indeed, I think weakened vowels should be voiced at least next to implosives. Otherwise, adjacent sounds may be weakened. (I'll have to write up a more common description).
You're right, [ɑ] is already as uvularized as it gets. I meant [aʶ], but I think I'll keep the epiglottal version.

I think those sound just great and I'm really thrilled to hear the language spoken aloud so thanks a lot!
Ares Land
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Re: Simbri lessons.

Post by Ares Land »

Lesson 2 - 'Hello, stranger!' - Pronominal prefixes, nouns, intransitives.

Dialogue.

MONASSIS: Done, noyie! 'Hello, stranger!'
DAVE: Xallis mimis. 'Hello!'
MONASSIS: Lacha an yiwiyim, noyie? 'What is your name, stranger?'
DAVE: Dave an sowiyim. Lacha an yiwiyim? 'My name is Dave. What's your name?'
MONASSIS: Monassis, Dave-tlase. Sissas yin wanoyecham. Min soxiris: Noyin an tlewiyim.
'Monassis. I am the noyecham of the village. And this is my wife: her name is Noyin.
DAVE: Nas xallis mimis. 'Pleased to meet you'
MONASSIS: Co xitayo? 'Are you tired?'
DAVE: Nas qân watayo. 'I'm not tired.'
MONASSIS: Mô xitayo. Sosador, obi xiejjô, obi xiason. 'Of course you're tired. This is my house, of course you will have dinner, of course you will sleep'
DAVE: Mô... Qâtcha. 'Well... Thanks.'
MONASSIS: Pocha. 'It's nothing.'

A few cultural notes.
The Tarandim believe strongly in sacred hospitality. The stranger, noyi must be treated as an honored guest. In the dialogue above, Monassis is the noyecham for his village, which means he has the honorable duty of greeting prestigious visitors. In a larger city, there would be several noyechim, each acting as a kind of consul-general for various foreign cities.
The relationship between noyi and noyecham is much more personal in rural settings. A noyecham is duty-bound to provide for his guest, and even defend him with his life. (Don't abuse the relationship, though. There are several loopholes, some of them lethal for the unscrupulous guest.)

Conventional expressions.

done 'hello! goodbye! '
xallis mimis 'hello! nice to meet you! good bye!'
done 'live!' can be used for both 'hello' and 'goodbye'. You may answer with 'done' or with an alternative, such as xallis mimis 'it's beautiful, it's good (to meet you)' which also serves as an equivalent to 'nice to meet you'.
qâtcha, 'thank you'
pocha 'it's nothing'. (Literally: 'it's zero'). Customary response to qâtcha.
noyie, vocative of noyi, 'stranger'. 'O Stranger', the polite form of adress for unknown persons.
-tlase, vocative suffix. X-tlase 'O Friend X'. An ubiquitous form of address.
Pronominal prefixes, an omnipredicative language

The subject is marked by the following prefixes:
1st person (I, we): wa-
1st person exclusive: ye-
2nd person (you - singular and plural): xi-
3rd person: ∅- , that is to say, no prefix.
4th person: o-

For this lesson, we will cover only singulars, and focus on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd person.

The present tense of intransitives verbs is a simple matter of adding the correct prefix:

waejjô 'I eat, I have lunch'
wa-ejjô
1-eat

xiejjô 'You eat'
xi-ejjô
2-eat

ejjô 'She/he eats, has lunch'.
∅-ejjô
3-eat


(You'll note that I translated xiejjô as 'you will eat'. Simbri happily extends the present to events that are both certain and immediate.)

Simbri doesn't mark gender for subjects. For that matter, there is no masculine or feminine (all animates belong to gender I).

Simbri distinguishes three word classes: nouns, verbs and particles.
There's no separate class of adjectives; lexemes which are translated as adjectives in English behave just like any other noun.

Nouns are marked for subject as well:
wanoyecham, 'I am a noyecham'
wa-noyecham
1-noyecham


xinoyi, 'You are a stranger.'
xi-noyi
2-stranger


Simbri lacks a copula, all attributive relations (X is Y) are formed by prefixing the correct pronominal prefix (or none at all).

As you recall, the 3rd person prefix is ∅- (no prefix!). This means that, for instance noyi means both 'a stranger' or 'she is a stranger'.

That is where the label 'omnipredicative' comes in.
Wikipedia wrote: A predicate is seen as a property that a subject has or is characterized by. A predicate is therefore an expression that can be true of something.
In English, the predicate is the part in bold listed below:
Dave eats.
Dave is a stranger.
A noun or an adjective needs the verb 'to be' to function as a predicate.
In Simbri, both constructions are identical:
Ejjô Dave (Dave eat)
Noyi Dave (Dave stranger)

There are other consequences; but more on that later.
A practical consequence is that if you're adressing someone, you need to add the vocative suffix -e: Dave-e 'O Dave', or a form of adress in the vocative, Noyintlase 'O friend Noyin'.
(Otherwise, well, there's really no way to establish if 'Dave' or 'Noyin' are meant to be a predicate.)

Marking possession.

Possession is marked with the following prefixes:
1st person: so-
1st person exclusive: wi-
2nd person: yi-
For the 3rd person, a class marker is used instead. For now, I'll just introduce one:
Class I oblique: tle-

There is no genitive marking in Simbri; possession is marked on the head noun:
so-xiris tle-sador my-wife her-house → 'My wife's house.'

Nouns with a possessive prefix function as predicate as well:
Soxiris.
so-xiris
1.OBL-wife
'This is my wife'.

You can add subject prefixs, of course. The subject prefix comes first, and wi, so and yi lose their vowel.
Xisbetlas. 'You're my friend'
Waynoyi 'I'm your guest.'

tle keeps the vowel, though:

Watlenoyi Monassis.
wa-tle-noyi Monassis
1-ANIM-guest Monassis


Some constructions.

A few common constructions show up in that dialogue; let's review them.

Questions are marked with the particle co:
Xitayô 'you are tired' → Co xitayô? 'Are you tired?'

Negation is marked with the particle qân:
Xiejjô 'I eat' → Qân xiejjô 'I don't eat.'

Topics.
An example of a topic-comment construction shows up in the dialogue:
Sissas yin wanoyecham
sissas yin wa-noyecham
village there.is 1-noyecham

'As for the village, I am noyecham', 'I am the noyecham in the village'.

The general structure is Topic PART Comment, where PART is any particle. (See below)


Focus
Simbri tries to bring the new information in focus, sentence-initally. This is particularly evident with questions:
Lacha an yiwiyim?
The interrogative lacha is placed in the focus; in the response Dave an sowiyim, the answer 'Dave' is brought to the front.

The particle an generally reinforces focalization, but is not mandatory: Dave sowiyim is an acceptable answer too.

Particles
Simbri speakers often use a number of initial particles.
These particles either occur sentence initially or separate the topic from the rest of the sentence:

co introduces a yes-no question.
yin, 'it is, it exists, here it happens to be that...'. Generally left untranslated!
nas 'certainly, this is true, it is true that.' →nas qân, 'definitely not'.
obi, 'of course, obviously'.
, indicates disagreement or indifference: 'that's nonsense, whatever'
min, 'and, but'. May signal a change in topic.

The particle an never occurs sentence initially, or before the main verb or predicate noun. It may reinforce focalization, serve as a demonstrative 'this, that', or introduce a relative clause: 'that which is, the one who...'

Vocabulary:
done, 'hello, goodbye'
noyie, O Stranger
xallis mimis, 'hello, nice to meet you'
wiyim 'name'
noyecham 'host, protector'
noyi 'stranger, guest'
betlas 'friend'
min, 'and'
nas, 'it is true that, certainly
xiris 'wife'
ximar 'husband'
tayo 'tired' (specifically, after travelling)
sador 'house'
ejjô 'to eat, to have dinner'
ason 'to sleep'
'nonsense, whatever'
potcha 'it's nothing, nothing'

Exercises:

Translate from Simbri:
(1) Co qân xiason? Qân watayô.
(2) Noyin ejjô
(3) Co xitleximar Noyin?

Translate to Simbri:
(1) As for Monassis, he's Noyin's husband.
(2) This is not my house. This is not my wife.
(3) Is Dave Monassis' friend?
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Re: Simbri lessons. (Lesson 2: Hello, stranger!)

Post by mèþru »

Really cool. I need to practice doing this kind of intro myself.
ìtsanso, God In The Mountain, may our names inspire the deepest feelings of fear in urkos and all his ilk, for we have saved another man from his lies! I welcome back to the feast hall kal, who will never gamble again! May the eleven gods bless him!
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Re: Simbri lessons.

Post by bradrn »

I must admit that I’m a bit confused about word order. In particular, the order of possessor and possessed seems inconsistent… it’s possessor-possessed in soxiris tlesador, but appears to be possessed-possessor in xitleximar Noyin. I’m also not quite sure about the overall word order: it appears to be mostly V-initial, but I’d appreciate some confirmation of this.

Oh, and here’s my answers to those exercises (with glosses):
More: show
(1) Co qân xiason? Qân watayô.

Q NEG 2s-sleep? NEG 1s-tired.
Didn’t you sleep? I’m not tired.

(2) Noyin ejjô

Noyin 3s-eat
Noyin eats.

(3) Co xitleximar Noyin?

Q 2s-I.OBL-husband Noyin?
Are you Noyin’s husband?



(1) As for Monassis, he's Noyin's husband.

Monassis tleximar Noyin.
Monassis 3s-I.OBL-husband Noyin

(2) This is not my house. This is not my wife.

Qân sosador. Qân soxiris.
NEG 3s-1s.POSS-house. NEG 3s-1s.POSS-wife.

(3) Is Dave Monassis' friend?

Co tlebetlas Monassis Dave?
Q I.OBL-friend Monassis Dave?
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Ares Land
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Re: Simbri lessons.

Post by Ares Land »

bradrn wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:10 am I must admit that I’m a bit confused about word order. In particular, the order of possessor and possessed seems inconsistent… it’s possessor-possessed in soxiris tlesador, but appears to be possessed-possessor in xitleximar Noyin. I’m also not quite sure about the overall word order: it appears to be mostly V-initial, but I’d appreciate some confirmation of this.
Sure. Generally word order is possessed - possessor, and in fact that example was poorly chosen: tlesador soxiris. The opposite order soxiris tlesador is grammatical, but marked, as it brings 'my wife' into focus. (It's for instance, what you'd say in response to 'Whose house is it?')

The unmarked word order is VSO, and head-initial.

(I'll recheck these answers in detail, but they all seem correct!)
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Re: Simbri lessons.

Post by bradrn »

Ares Land wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 4:21 am
bradrn wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:10 am I must admit that I’m a bit confused about word order. In particular, the order of possessor and possessed seems inconsistent… it’s possessor-possessed in soxiris tlesador, but appears to be possessed-possessor in xitleximar Noyin. I’m also not quite sure about the overall word order: it appears to be mostly V-initial, but I’d appreciate some confirmation of this.
Sure. Generally word order is possessed - possessor, and in fact that example was poorly chosen: tlesador soxiris. The opposite order soxiris tlesador is grammatical, but marked, as it brings 'my wife' into focus. (It's for instance, what you'd say in response to 'Whose house is it?')
Interesting, thanks for explaining! I hadn’t really considered this possibility.
The unmarked word order is VSO, and head-initial.
Well, I can’t say I’m too surprised that Simbri does this. After all, topic-focus-particle-V-S-O is just the usual Mesoamerican word order! (I was similarly curious as to whether free variation in the possessor/possessed order is attested in any natlang, and eventually found it in, yep, none other than Huasteca Nahuatl.)
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Re: Simbri lessons.

Post by Ares Land »

bradrn wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:10 am
More: show
(1) Co qân xiason? Qân watayô.

Q NEG 2s-sleep? NEG 1s-tired.
Didn’t you sleep? I’m not tired.

(2) Noyin ejjô

Noyin 3s-eat
Noyin eats.

(3) Co xitleximar Noyin?

Q 2s-I.OBL-husband Noyin?
Are you Noyin’s husband?



(1) As for Monassis, he's Noyin's husband.

Monassis tleximar Noyin.
Monassis 3s-I.OBL-husband Noyin

(2) This is not my house. This is not my wife.

Qân sosador. Qân soxiris.
NEG 3s-1s.POSS-house. NEG 3s-1s.POSS-wife.

(3) Is Dave Monassis' friend?

Co tlebetlas Monassis Dave?
Q I.OBL-friend Monassis Dave?
These are correct, except for (1) (but I think I wasn't very clear): a topic is followed either with a pause, or with a particle. So word order is really: topic particle focus V S O

So you'd have, for instance:
More: show
Monassis, tleximar Noyin.
Monassis / 3s-I.OBL-husband Noyin
Monassis yin tleximar Noyin.
Monassis it.is 3s-I.OBL-husband Noyin

or even
Monassis obi tleximar Noyin.
Monassis obvious 3s-I.OBL-husband Noyin
bradrn wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:01 am Well, I can’t say I’m too surprised that Simbri does this. After all, topic-focus-particle-V-S-O is just the usual Mesoamerican word order! (I was similarly curious as to whether free variation in the possessor/possessed order is attested in any natlang, and eventually found it in, yep, none other than Huasteca Nahuatl.)
Heh. I guess the Mesoamerican bias is showing!
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Re: Simbri lessons.

Post by bradrn »

Ares Land wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:48 pm
bradrn wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:10 am
More: show
(1) Co qân xiason? Qân watayô.

Q NEG 2s-sleep? NEG 1s-tired.
Didn’t you sleep? I’m not tired.

(2) Noyin ejjô

Noyin 3s-eat
Noyin eats.

(3) Co xitleximar Noyin?

Q 2s-I.OBL-husband Noyin?
Are you Noyin’s husband?



(1) As for Monassis, he's Noyin's husband.

Monassis tleximar Noyin.
Monassis 3s-I.OBL-husband Noyin

(2) This is not my house. This is not my wife.

Qân sosador. Qân soxiris.
NEG 3s-1s.POSS-house. NEG 3s-1s.POSS-wife.

(3) Is Dave Monassis' friend?

Co tlebetlas Monassis Dave?
Q I.OBL-friend Monassis Dave?
These are correct, except for (1) (but I think I wasn't very clear): a topic is followed either with a pause, or with a particle. So word order is really: topic particle focus V S O

So you'd have, for instance:
More: show
Monassis, tleximar Noyin.
Monassis / 3s-I.OBL-husband Noyin
Monassis yin tleximar Noyin.
Monassis it.is 3s-I.OBL-husband Noyin

or even
Monassis obi tleximar Noyin.
Monassis obvious 3s-I.OBL-husband Noyin
Ah, I see. Thanks for the correctoin!
bradrn wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:01 am Well, I can’t say I’m too surprised that Simbri does this. After all, topic-focus-particle-V-S-O is just the usual Mesoamerican word order! (I was similarly curious as to whether free variation in the possessor/possessed order is attested in any natlang, and eventually found it in, yep, none other than Huasteca Nahuatl.)
Heh. I guess the Mesoamerican bias is showing!
Yep, it definitely is! If anything, I think this is great: there don’t seem to be too many conlangs with that sort of typology, so it’s nice to see one.
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Simbri lessons. (Lesson 3: What am I eating?)

Post by Ares Land »

Lesson 3 - 'What am I eating?' - Gender, transitives verbs, relationals.

(As a sidenote: this lesson could possibly have been split in two... It certainly took more work than expected, and I do hope it's not too much at once for you. On the other hand, I was glad for the change to go into conlang pragmatics a bit...


Dialogue
DAVE: Yin sine siô. 'This is very good.'
MONASSIS: Co xicminder? Masnô oqiqme nirsô! 'Do you like it? Have some more.'
DAVE: Qâtcha. Laô an siô? 'Thanks. What is it?'
MONASSIS: Yin tlamjô 'It's tlamjô (rodent ham)'
DAVE: Laô an tlamjô? 'What is tlamjô?'
MONASSIS: Coca momrô. Xitleiqâ an momar, co, tlome? 'Momar (rodent) meat. Do you know what a momar is, sonny?
DAVE: Aa, yin. Nas sine. 'Ah, yes. It's really good'
MONASSIS: Co masnô wewcô? Neqqom sokanyo nirse. 'Do you want more wine? It's from my own vine'
DAVE: Nas tore. 'Yes, with pleasure.'
MONASSIS: Qe xisini, qe wayminder! Nas waxqatris anris nochis niris. Laya soyonya? 'You're an excellent fellow, I like you! I'll open another bottle. Where's my knife?'
DAVE: Yin âsô danâm, tlase. 'Under the table, mate.'
MONASSIS: Aa, qâtcha. Co qaqaron xintloyin ôbbiqe monde? Siya, wanloctis yô masne. 'Ah, thanks. You still don't want a fried giant locust? I'll have one more, myself.'
DAVE: Xa, qâtcha. Laya tlanyon? 'No, thanks. Where's the outhouse?'
MONASSIS: Dossô sador, dorrô. 'Behind the house, to the north''

Vocabulary
sine 'something good, excellent outstanding. The best'
qiqom 'to take out'
qaqom 'to be from, to be taken from' (perfective of qiqom)
laô 'what, which (gender II)'
siô 'this, that (gender II)'
minder 'to like, to prefer'
masen 'something more, something extra'
niris 'something small'
tlamjô 'rodent ham'
coca 'meat'
iqâ 'to know'
momar a kind of giant rodent
tlome 'son, sonny, mate'
wewcô 'wine'
kanyo 'grapevine'
tore 'with pleasure, willingly'
qe 'you, yourself'
qatris 'to open a bottle, to uncork'
nocha 'other, another'
anris 'bottle'
yonya 'knife' (specifically, a glass knife)
danâm 'table'
tlase 'friend, mate'
qaron 'still, again'
qaqaron 'still not'
tloyin 'want', present tense form of tlore
monde 'fried'
ôbbiqe a kind of giant insect
siya 'me, myself'
loctis 'to serve oneself food, to help oneself'
tlanyon 'privy, outhouse, toilet'
-ssô 'back'
-rrô 'north'
xa 'alas, unfortunately'
tore 'yes, with pleasure'sine 'something good, excellent outstanding. The best'
xallô 'beauty'


A few cultural notes

Tarandim food staples are a little unusual: the momar is a large rodent, about the size of a pig. Its closest Earth relative is the pacarana. tlamjô isn't unlike ham. ôbiqqi look like a larger version of a king cricket. Fried ôbbiqe actually tastes like chicken.

Both insects and momir can be subject to taboo, depending on geographical location (momar meat is usually taboo in the south, insects in the north), lineage and secret society membership. Unfortunately for the queasy traveler, our main point of contact is the central region of Nandô Bollô, where both are routinely eaten.

The importance of wine, wewcô in Tarandim culture can't be overstated. It's considered sacred and is practically a staple food.
A Tarandi man engaged in regular, heavy physical labor may drink up to two liters a day. It can be hard to decline an offered drink. (It's entirely acceptable to water the wine down, and travellers are encouraged to do so.)
The taste of Tarandim wine is probably unlike what you're used to. (The grapevine used is a different species in the Vitis genus.)

The Tarandim use absolute directions more liberally than we do: uphill/downhill, cardinal directions, as shown by the use of dorrô 'to its north'.

A few words on politeness

To the outsider, the Tarandim seem low on formality and friendly to the point of being overly familiar.

The informal nature of Simbri conversations is, in fact, a result of slightly different politeness strategies.

Simbri speakers tend to invoke a sense of shared community. This is reflected in the used of naked imperatives: 'oqiqme! 'Have some more!' and using in-group terms of adress: tlome! 'son!', tlase, 'friend, mate', especially to soften potentially offensive statements: 'It's right under the table.' 'You know what a motas is, don't you?'

Simbri also uses extensively adjectives such as niris (with gendered forms nirse, nirsô). These are essentially meaningless (and in fact I leave them untranslated). The general sense is one of endearment of companionship.

While speakers of Western languages tend to show respect to strangers, through the use of titles, or formal languages, Simbri speakers use a different strategy: one of showing that the stranger (especially in the context of a host/guest relationship and sacred hospitality) is considered a member of the community.

Of course, this has a direct relationship to the nature of Tarandim polities: states and villages being relatively small, and surrounded with potential rivals, building a strong sense of community is primordial. The Tarandim will seek to build a link between themselves and their guests, so as to build a network of allies for themselves and for their community. In other words, it's a way to build trust across long distances and distinct communities, in a context where no state is strong enough to provide political stability.
(Citizens of Arba and Qin, which are larger, stronger and fit a bit more with our own image of a state are noted by the Tarandim to be colder.)

Constructions and set expressions

A variant for yes-no questions occurs here: putting the particle co? at the end. This means, essentially, that the speaker expects a positive answer. Possible translations include 'isn't it?' or 'don't you agree?'

To answer an offer, it's best to use tore, 'with pleasure, willingly' and xa 'alas, unfortunately' to decline it.

Genders and how to use them.

There are seven genders in Simbri numbered in Roman numerals I to VII None of them have anything to do with the masculine-feminine range but using 'noun classes' can be awkward (as we'll see in future installments, verbs, including conjugated verbs, have gender too).

Gender is assigned phonologically, but with a semantic component as well.
Semantics Endings Suffix Short Prefix Long prefix.
I Animates any ending -i tle- tle-
II Uncountables, substances, food, liquids-o, -ô, -ca, -carc- o-
III Blades, insects, anything that cuts -e, -ni, -ya, -yo, -in, -mi, -en, -qa, -q -e n- ne-
IV Small items -is, -x, -xe-is x- xi-
V Bulky items, furniture -m, -â-âm â- â-
VI Buildings -or, -sa, -on, -s -dor/-²or do- do-
VII None of the above, abstractionsNone of the above. -ta/-²a ta- ta-
How do you determine the gender of a noun?

The chief distinction is animate/inanimate and this is purely semantic. Animates cover living beings in general: human beings and animals are a given. Trees are animate. Useful plants are inanimate, weeds and toxic plants are animate. Natural forces: the sea, storms, the moon, planets, stars, the sun, weather, clouds are animate. (In Tarandim religion they are manifestation of powerful spirits.) Towns, cities and villages are animate, but not other man-made constructions.
Body parts are animate as well.

The table above, BTW, isn't quite complete, as there are three animates subgenders; these will be covered later.

For anything else, gender assignment is phonological. To assign gender to an inanimate noun, check the 'Endings' column for genders II-VI in the column above. Gender is assigned according to the last phonemes of the noun in its singular form.
If nothing fits, then it belongs in gender VII.
The semantics of assignment generally works. That is, nouns that end in -m or -â do tend to refer to furniture, nouns in -is or -x tends to be small.

There are still some surprises: ôbbiqe doesn't end up in gender II, like most food. (But then again, it is an insect) and some arbitrary assignment: sine 'something good, something excellent, excellence' ends up in gender III: it has nothing to do with cutting, blades or insects, but it does end in -e...

Gender agreement in nouns.

If a noun is used as an attributive , that is, if it modifies another noun, it agrees with its head noun in class.

The last vowel of the noun is removed (*), and the correct gender suffix is added.

(*) There are additional rules if this leads to an illegal cluster, but we'll see these later on.

Taking, in the dialogue above, the noun masne 'something more, something extra'
We have the following attributive forms:
masne masn-masnô 'more (of gender II)' masne 'more (gender III)'
niris 'a small thing' → nirs-nirsor 'small (gender VI)', nirse 'small (gender III)', nirsô 'small (gender II)'
momarmomr-momrô 'rodent (gender II)'

Agreement is optional when the noun is in a predicate position: sine 'It is excellent' but xisini 'you're an excellent fellow.' (xisine is an acceptable variant.)

An attributive noun follows its head noun:
Sokanyo nirse.
so-kanyo nirs-e
my-vine little-III


But agreements allow noun phrases to be broken up quite freely:
Masnô oqiqme nirô. 'Take a little more!'
masn-ô o-qiqm-e nir-ô
more-II II-take.out-IMP little-II



Transitive verbs

The object of a transitive verb is marked with the appropriate gender prefix. There are often two variants, a short one and a long one. Use the short one if it doesn't lead to an illegal cluster, otherwise use the long one.

A few examples:

xintloyin 'You want it (gender III)'
xi-n-tloyin
you-III-want

netloyin 'he wants it (gender III)'
∅-ne-tloyin
3-III-want

xitleiqâ 'you know it' (gender I / animate)
xi-tle-iqâ
you-I-know


Relational nouns

Location is indicated with a special subclasses of nouns called relationals. Relationals are marked with a possession prefix; for the third person, this is the oblique prefix corresponding to the appropriate gender.

(The same prefixes are used for possession and object marking)

For instance:
dossô sador 'behind the house'
sador do-ssô
house VI-back
, literally 'its-back house'.

âsô danâm 'under the table'
â-sô danâm
V-under table


Quite a few relationals double as name for body parts. sossô means both 'behind me' and 'my back'

Relationals never occur without a possessive prefix. In many case it would be phonologically impossible: -ssô 'back' → sossô 'my back' but *ssô can't occur (ss is illegal word-initally in Simbri). This characteristic is shared by several other semantic fields in Simbri, most notably kinship terms.

Like any noun, relational can function as predicates in their own right: Sossô. 'it is behind me, it is my back', Xisossô 'You are behind me.'

Independent pronouns

Two independant pronouns feature in the dialogue:
siya 'me, myself'
qe 'you'
They are used for emphasis, focalization or topicalization, the appropriate prefix still occurs on the verb. There are no distinct subject and oblique forms:

Qe xisini. 'You're an excellent fellow!'
qe xi-sin-i
you you-excellent-I


Qe wayminder 'I like you.'
qe wa-y-minder
you 2-1.OBL-like


For the third person, a demonstrative pronoun is used. Simbri uses a single form for proximal/distal, with seven variants (one for each gender:)
This
I siwi
II siô
III sini
IV sixe
V siâm
VI sidor
VII sicha
We've seen the interrogative laô 'what, which (substance)'; this pronoun also exists in seven variants:
This
I lawi
II laô
III lani
IV laxe
V laâm
VI lador
VII lacha
And finally, let me mention the intterogative laya 'where'
Exercises

See if you can figure out gender for these nouns:

attli 'planet'
wejô 'fog'
boyam 'sword'
bascar 'firewood'
bonsiq '(royal, city) hall'
iwa 'river'
dabbya 'judgment'

Translate:


(1) This not my beautiful house. This is not my beautiful wife.
(2) I like the table.
(3) This is an excellent house.
(4) Where is your vine?
(5) Where's the giant locust?

For extra credit:
(6) What is this planet?
For extra extra credit:
(7) What is the name of this planet?
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Re: Simbri lessons. (Lesson 3: What am I eating?)

Post by Qwynegold »

I'm late to this thread, but I'll try the first challenge.
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Waybŏnicomon!
Yin Iynĭbayam (is that a capital i?)
Tletonenrĭwisi an tlecayin.
Yin sewannin tlebaqo mâ.
Noyindi watlexwatcham wobis tlesâs.
Later ya yin watloyin dara. Askĕrim odeqtis.
My latest quiz:
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Ares Land
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Re: Simbri lessons. (Lesson 3: What am I eating?)

Post by Ares Land »

Qwynegold wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:19 pm I'm late to this thread, but I'll try the first challenge.
More: show
All of these are correct. And indeed it was a capital i and it's out of place... I'll fix that.
bradrn
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Re: Simbri lessons. (Lesson 3: What am I eating?)

Post by bradrn »

Ares Land wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:04 am Exercises

See if you can figure out gender for these nouns:

attli 'planet'
wejô 'fog'
boyam 'sword'
bascar 'firewood'
bonsiq '(royal, city) hall'
iwa 'river'
dabbya 'judgment'
My attempt at this:

More: show
attli 'planet' I
wejô 'fog' II
boyam 'sword' V
bascar 'firewood' II
bonsiq '(royal, city) hall' VI
iwa 'river' I
dabbya 'judgment' III

Not too sure about my answers to boyam and bonsiq, as the phonology and the semantics have a serious mismatch for those ones; I’m more confident about the rest.

I’ll have a go at the translation challenges later.
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