Question about the development of Portuguese

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alice
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Question about the development of Portuguese

Post by alice »

In the evolution of Portuguese from Vulgar Latin, medial /d l g/ were lost between vowels. Are there any examples of this happening in two successive syllables, for example from something like /kaleda/? What would this have become?
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Linguoboy
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Re: Question about the development of Portuguese

Post by Linguoboy »

In a word like /kaleda/, you'd have syncope leading to cluster formation. Compare Latin calidus > Portuguese caldo.

In rigidus, the /g/ palatalises before it can be lost and you get the inherited form rijo.
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dɮ the phoneme
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Re: Question about the development of Portuguese

Post by dɮ the phoneme »

Linguoboy wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:47 am In a word like /kaleda/, you'd have syncope leading to cluster formation. Compare Latin calidus > Portuguese caldo.

In rigidus, the /g/ palatalises before it can be lost and you get the inherited form rijo.
How was syncope handle in longer words – say, something of the shape CVCVCVC or CVCVCVCVC?
Ye knowe eek that, in forme of speche is chaunge
With-inne a thousand yeer, and wordes tho
That hadden pris, now wonder nyce and straunge
Us thinketh hem; and yet they spake hem so,
And spedde as wel in love as men now do.

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alice
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Re: Question about the development of Portuguese

Post by alice »

Linguoboy wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:47 am In a word like /kaleda/, you'd have syncope leading to cluster formation. Compare Latin calidus > Portuguese caldo.
But suppose this developed from something with a long vowel in the penult, which wouldn't syncopate.
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cedh
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Re: Question about the development of Portuguese

Post by cedh »

Most Latin words with a stressed {d,g,l}V{d,g,l} sequence that I can find on Wiktionary seem to have retained both consonants mostly unchanged, but of course many (most? all?) of these words are learned reborrowings rather than regular inherited reflexes. For instance:

agilitas > agilidade
dēlēgāre > delegar
ēlūdere > eludir
īdōlum > ídolo (apparently with a stress shift based on the Greek original)
paedagōgus > pedagogo
pedālis > pedal (pl. pedais)
modālis > modal (pl. modais)
theologicus > teológico

The plural forms of the words in -ālis seem to hint that the regular development in such words may have involved deletion of the second consonant only, but it's at least equally possible that these plurals are based on analogy with other words that carry this suffix.

Other words that might be of interest here:

regālis > real (pl. reais) (merged with, and possibly influenced by, the reflex of reālis)
agilis > ágil (pl. ágeis) (-gil- is unstressed here, but still preserved, probably with some analogy involved)
tēgula > telha / tigela (unstressed again, but we get a doublet here. The former is apparently regular, and the latter based on an alternative VL form *tēgella)
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Re: Question about the development of Portuguese

Post by zompist »

Here's a nice one: frigidus > frio
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Re: Question about the development of Portuguese

Post by Talskubilos »

cedh wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:05 amagilitas > agilidade
The source etymon was actually the accusative agilitate(m) (with final nasal dropped in Vulgar Latin).
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