Ares Land wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:00 am
zompist wrote: ↑Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:54 am
Still, I'd ask: can the sociopaths not figure this out?
Sure, the smart sociopaths figure this out. The rest don't. Many of them don't get by very well. They tend to get stuck into destructive patterns, and there's a strong correlation with other mental disorders.
There's something of a spectrum too. (High-functioning sociopaths are kind of broken morally but they're not completely lacking in empathy.)
Yeah... I was just doing some shallow reading on sociopathy, which suggested some nuances:
* Sociopaths are more inclined to manipulation than violence.
* They're often impulsive and even self-destructive, which leads to as many problems as their antisocial nature.
* They get bored easily, so it can be hard for them to keep a job.
* Quite a few do fit into society— uneasily, but without being criminals.
I'd refine my predictions for Otto's question:
* The sort of sociopaths I was talking about— charismatic, amoral manipulators— would rise to the top.
* Another type, the ones who can't moderate their impulses, will have difficult and sad lives.
* Yet others would form a kind of simulacrum of human society. I.e. there's no reason they can't do work, study, play games, serve in very hierarchical institutions, etc. Probably the model for relationships would be very different; I'd expect women to have to raise children mostly by themselves.
This is reminding me of Jane Goodall's description of chimpanzee life. They're often murderous, they get into fights a lot, there is no real pair-bonding, and the head chimp often gets his position by intimidation. To be sure they are also gregarious in their own way, and can form friendships.
Oh, and I just noticed the reference to Kzin. Don't trust Larry Niven on any aspect of biology. I'd suggest Konrad Lorenz's
King Solomon's Ring, especially his discussion of wolves and other predators. Actual predator species usually have deep instincts against fatally harming each other: the loser of a fight is allowed to run away. Prey species lack such instincts, and if two male rabbits or doves are kept in a small cage together, the results can be gruesome.