I imagine the Caesar, as (I assume) [t͡sʰɛː.zaɐ] is a spelling pronunciation?WeepingElf wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:20 pmBecause German never had a /k/ > /ts/ shift. Palatalization of /k/ before front vowels is a Romance thing, not a Continental West Germanic one. Caesar is usually pronounced as if it was spelled Zäsar in German, but when West Germanic borrowed the word from Latin Caesar, this was still pronounced ['kaesar]. Thus, Kaiser is indeed closer to the original Latin word than "Zäsar".Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:22 pmTis true.Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:41 pm I don't think that would stop semantic drift from occurring.
Actually, I am surprised that StG does not use something like *Zäser myself.
Mis-hearings
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Re: Mis-hearings
Re: Mis-hearings
So StG Kaiser is actually a WGmc borrowing rather than a later Latinate borrowing?WeepingElf wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:20 pmBecause German never had a /k/ > /ts/ shift. Palatalization of /k/ before front vowels is a Romance thing, not a Continental West Germanic one. Caesar is usually pronounced as if it was spelled Zäsar in German, but when West Germanic borrowed the word from Latin Caesar, this was still pronounced ['kaesar]. Thus, Kaiser is indeed closer to the original Latin word than "Zäsar".Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:22 pmTis true.Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:41 pm I don't think that would stop semantic drift from occurring.
Actually, I am surprised that StG does not use something like *Zäser myself.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
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Re: Mis-hearings
Sort of.Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:29 pm I imagine the Caesar, as (I assume) [t͡sʰɛː.zaɐ] is a spelling pronunciation?
Yep.
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Re: Mis-hearings
Sort-of? Romance-influenced, I would guess?WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:04 amSort of.Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:29 pm I imagine the Caesar, as (I assume) [t͡sʰɛː.zaɐ] is a spelling pronunciation?
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Re: Mis-hearings
Yes.Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:37 amSort-of? Romance-influenced, I would guess?WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:04 amSort of.Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 8:29 pm I imagine the Caesar, as (I assume) [t͡sʰɛː.zaɐ] is a spelling pronunciation?
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Re: Mis-hearings
Which it was (cāser is attested in the East Anglian royal genealogy and the Rituale Ecclesiae Dunelmensis; cāsaer is found in the Liber Vitae Dunelmensis; the derived cāseren "empress", cāserlīċ "imperial" and cāserdōm "imperial rule" are also attested); it just never made its way into Modern English.Travis B. wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:11 pmOnly if Caesar were inherited from PWGmc as an earlier loan from Latin by OE, though.Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:54 pm The inherited English form would be expected to be either *Caser or *Coser, apparently.