"I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Natural languages and linguistics
Space60
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"I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by Space60 »

Do you ever use "I'll not", "I'd not", or "I've not"? I don't. I would use "I won't", "I wouldn't", and "I haven't". Pronoun contractions are only natural with forms of "be not" for me.

"I'm not"
"You're not"
"He's not"
"She's not"
"It's not"
"They're not".
Travis B.
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Re: "I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by Travis B. »

Space60 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:06 pm Do you ever use "I'll not", "I'd not", or "I've not"? I don't. I would use "I won't", "I wouldn't", and "I haven't". Pronoun contractions are only natural with forms of "be not" for me.

"I'm not"
"You're not"
"He's not"
"She's not"
"It's not"
"They're not".
I generally don't contract will not, have not, or had not with the subject — I strongly prefer won't, haven't, and hadn't — even though I readily contract is (and related forms), was, will, would, have, had, and so on with the subject - even if the subject is not a pronoun — provided the verb is not negated (except in the case of is and related forms, where I am in free variation except in the case of negated am, where subject contraction is strongly preferred).
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Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate ha eetatadi siiman.
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Richard W
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Re: "I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by Richard W »

Yes, though I'm not sure what determines my choice. I think I have a subtle difference between I've not seen that before and I haven't seen that before. The former suggests that not seeing is not due to inattention.
Space60
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Re: "I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by Space60 »

Travis B. wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:42 pm
Space60 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:06 pm Do you ever use "I'll not", "I'd not", or "I've not"? I don't. I would use "I won't", "I wouldn't", and "I haven't". Pronoun contractions are only natural with forms of "be not" for me.

"I'm not"
"You're not"
"He's not"
"She's not"
"It's not"
"They're not".
except in the case of negated am, where subject contraction is strongly preferred).
Yes, same here. This is because my variety doesn't have "amn't" or "ain't", and "aren't" is only permitted in the tag question "aren't I?
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Man in Space
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Re: "I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by Man in Space »

I use these forms in conversation on occasion. Not sure 100% what the deciding factor is.
Travis B.
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Re: "I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by Travis B. »

Space60 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:56 pm Yes, same here. This is because my variety doesn't have "amn't" or "ain't", and "aren't" is only permitted in the tag question "aren't I?
Exactly the same with me too.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka ha wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate ha eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
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Arzena
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Re: "I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by Arzena »

Space60 wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:06 pm Do you ever use "I'll not", "I'd not", or "I've not"? I don't. I would use "I won't", "I wouldn't", and "I haven't". Pronoun contractions are only natural with forms of "be not" for me.

"I'm not"
"You're not"
"He's not"
"She's not"
"It's not"
"They're not".
I use the first and the third regularly. The second occurs most often as "I'd rather not."
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Travis B.
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Re: "I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by Travis B. »

Arzena wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 9:36 am I use the first and the third regularly. The second occurs most often as "I'd rather not."
I do strongly favor I'd rather not over the alternative even though I generally do not use I'd not by itself much.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka ha wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate ha eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
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Jonlang
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Re: "I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by Jonlang »

No, but I feel like these are more common in areas like Lancashire and Yorkshire.
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sangi39
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Re: "I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by sangi39 »

I've used all three, especially "I've not", and tend to a bit more often when talking with other people from round here (North Yorkshire). It does seem to be faitly common up here than, say, down south, but does seem to be less common among younger speakers than older ones, so I feel like Jonlang's on to something on that front
vegfarandi
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Re: "I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by vegfarandi »

I don't think I ever say the first two but the last one seems plausible in for example "I've not done that before" and "I've not really tried that."
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Emily
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Re: "I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by Emily »

the formations in the title of this thread sound distinctly british to me
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Re: "I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by Travis B. »

vegfarandi wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 3:28 pm I don't think I ever say the first two but the last one seems plausible in for example "I've not done that before" and "I've not really tried that."
I feel the same way about these myself.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka ha wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate ha eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
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foxcatdog
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Re: "I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by foxcatdog »

I'lln't I'dn't and I'vn't seem like the next logical step.
Space60
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Re: "I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by Space60 »

foxcatdog wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:33 pm I'lln't I'dn't and I'vn't seem like the next logical step.
Wiktionary has entries for "I'dn't" (I would not), "I'ven't" (I have not), and "I'mn't" (I am not). It lists them with a nonstandard label.
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Jonlang
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Re: "I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by Jonlang »

Space60 wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:14 am
foxcatdog wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:33 pm I'lln't I'dn't and I'vn't seem like the next logical step.
Wiktionary has entries for "I'dn't" (I would not), "I'ven't" (I have not), and "I'mn't" (I am not). It lists them with a nonstandard label.
I'd struggle to hear a difference between "I'ven't" and simply "I 'aven't" because the clipped "have" usually begins with a schwa here.
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Travis B.
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Re: "I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by Travis B. »

Space60 wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:14 am
foxcatdog wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:33 pm I'lln't I'dn't and I'vn't seem like the next logical step.
Wiktionary has entries for "I'dn't" (I would not), "I'ven't" (I have not), and "I'mn't" (I am not). It lists them with a nonstandard label.
I don't have these. However, I readily drop the initial /h/ in have/had and haven't/hadn't.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka ha wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate ha eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
Travis B.
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Re: "I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by Travis B. »

Does anyone else have a clitic initial /j/ for you? For instance, I can pronounce you have as /jæ(v)/, you haven't as /ˈjævən(t)/, and you don't as /joʊn(t)/.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka ha wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate ha eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
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Rounin Ryuuji
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Re: "I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by Rounin Ryuuji »

Travis B. wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:22 am Does anyone else have a clitic initial /j/ for you? For instance, I can pronounce you have as /jæ(v)/, you haven't as /ˈjævən(t)/, and you don't as /joʊn(t)/.
I don't have those contractions, but when speaking quickly, you have can sound like /jhæv/, and you don't can sound like /jdount/.
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Re: "I'll not", "I'd not", and "I've not".

Post by Travis B. »

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 12:58 pm
Travis B. wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:22 am Does anyone else have a clitic initial /j/ for you? For instance, I can pronounce you have as /jæ(v)/, you haven't as /ˈjævən(t)/, and you don't as /joʊn(t)/.
I don't have those contractions, but when speaking quickly, you have can sound like /jhæv/, and you don't can sound like /jdount/.
My favorite is when I stack clitics so as to have /djæv/ for do you have (note that in this case I never coalesce /dj/ to *[dʒ]).
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka ha wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate ha eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
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