Conlang Random Thread

[Travis B.]

One of the major reasons I have against distinguishing /ɮ l/ is that I already have troubles coming up with words containing /z/ and use /s/ or /r/ too much.

If you are having trouble coming up with words containing /z/, why not not have /z/ but rather have [z] as, say, an intervocalic allophone of non-geminate /s/?

[Ahzoh]

One of the major reasons I have against distinguishing /ɮ l/ is that I already have troubles coming up with words containing /z/ and use /s/ or /r/ too much.

If you are having trouble coming up with words containing /z/, why not not have /z/ but rather have [z] as, say, an intervocalic allophone of non-geminate /s/?

Because I still have words, mostly verbs, that contrast /s/ and /z/, I also have geminate /z:/ which is found in the very productive collectivizer prefix azza-

[Rounin Ryuuji]

It could just be an infrequent phoneme. Infrequent phonemes appearing in common words and morphemes isn't at all unheard-of.

[Travis B.]

It could just be an infrequent phoneme. Infrequent phonemes appearing in common words and morphemes isn't at all unheard-of.

Case in point, English /ð/.

[Ahzoh]

https://pbase.phon.chass.ncsu.edu/

I found this website that one could use to either a) find the presence of a phoneme at the exclusion of another or b) find examples of allophony? in languages within the database.

The latter would be so nice if the search bar and outputs weren't so fucking confusing to understand:

allophonyquery.png (44.58 KiB) Viewed 2822 times

Like, I don't know what L0,L1, etc. and R0, R1, etc. are supposed to mean, nor the + and - symbols

[Creyeditor]

Pbase is useful, because it's the only database of allophonic patterns. It has some shortcomings though. L means left-hand context and R means right-hand context. '+' is a morpheme boundary IINM. You could check Jeff Mielke's website. I think the database is explained in some of his publicatiobs (maybe his dissertation). I generally look at the description first in trying to understand the pattern.

The search bars for Input and Output work fairly well IMO, if you know either a segment or a feature that you want to look at. The environment or change are trickier, but I think I was able to make it work for me. StressType, Domain, and Language don't work for me at all. The double tagging system with rule types and labels is confusing, at least for me. I try to not change the feature system unless I try to compare different theories.

[masako]

Just working out some ideas...

There are three separate copulas in Amal. Each is used in different ways, the first is the general copula hara, the second is the locative copula kayek, and the last is the negative copula nayek, which is often used as the opposite of the locative moreso than the general copula. The copula can also be omitted in regular discourse.

The general copula, hara, is conjugated irregularly.

shuna ilhu kamat
that 3s.INAN.COP book
That is a book.

bekeshimwa haqum habinim nai
PROX-person-PL-ACC 3pl.COP like-AG-PL 1sg.GEN
These folks are my friends.

The locative copula, kayek, is conjugated regularly. It is most often used with nominal locations.

kayuk buda
LOC.COP-1pl PROX-LOC
We’re here.

kupa abáshwa mesai kayesha
dog below-ACC table-GEN LOC.COP-PST-3s
The dog was under the table.

The negative copula, nayek, is conjugated regularly. It is most often used with nominal locations.

nayeshum buda
NEG.COP-PST-3pl PROX-LOC
They weren’t here.

tawíshim liyu betai nayurum
fowl-DIM-PL above-ACC house-GEN NEG.COP-TENT-3pl
The chicks may not be on the house.

[Ahzoh]

I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with my lang's noun declension system. I am currently torn between my nouns having cases or being caseless with a simple status rectus versus status constructus dichotomy.

I like the case system, but I am beginning to feel uneasy about the stability of superheavy syllables, which is why I like the simplified system since it only has heavy or light syllables.

[Man in Space]

I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with my lang's noun declension system. I am currently torn between my nouns having cases or being caseless with a simple status rectus versus status constructus dichotomy.

I like the case system, but I am beginning to feel uneasy about the stability of superheavy syllables, which is why I like the simplified system since it only has heavy or light syllables.

I like the caseless option myself. I like the status dichotomy, so why not emphasize it?

[Rounin Ryuuji]

You can also have case marking on determiners and pronouns, and possibly in some fixed expressions, if you want to keep some vestiges of it.

[Man in Space]

I forgot about that. Polish, I know, preserves the dual in some proverbs—though naturally I don't have any examples at hand.

[Ahzoh]

I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with my lang's noun declension system. I am currently torn between my nouns having cases or being caseless with a simple status rectus versus status constructus dichotomy.

I like the case system, but I am beginning to feel uneasy about the stability of superheavy syllables, which is why I like the simplified system since it only has heavy or light syllables.

I like the caseless option myself. I like the status dichotomy, so why not emphasize it?

there isn't much to emphasize:

Code: Select all

            SG |  PL
Feminine:  -u  / -ū
Masculine: -i  / -ī
Neuter:    -as / -an

            SG |  PL
Feminine:  -a  / -ā
Masculine: -a  / -ā
Neuter:    -a  / -ā

And this is basically the same for the case system only with the addition of -m (common nominative), -s (accusative), -n (common genitive), and ḫ (neuter genitive) in the status rectus.

I based my endings on the nouns found in here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kassite_language

[hwhatting]

I forgot about that. Polish, I know, preserves the dual in some proverbs—though naturally I don't have any examples at hand.

I don't know about proverbs, but it preserves former duals as plurals for some paired body-parts:
ręka "hand" - pl. ręce (regular plural would be *ręki)
ucho "ear" - pl. uszy (the regular plural ucha is used when the word means "handle, bail").
oko "eye" - pl. oczy (the regular plural oka is used when the word means "loop, drop of grease").
Russian has similar remnants.

[Travis B.]

I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with my lang's noun declension system. I am currently torn between my nouns having cases or being caseless with a simple status rectus versus status constructus dichotomy.

I like the case system, but I am beginning to feel uneasy about the stability of superheavy syllables, which is why I like the simplified system since it only has heavy or light syllables.

I like the caseless option myself. I like the status dichotomy, so why not emphasize it?

As do I.

[jal]

Yay! I finally finished the first draft of chapter 5 of The Hobbit (the whole encounter with Gollum). It was quite a chore, took me probably over a year, off and on, and it will be a long way to full translation, but at least the first phase is done. It's quite a large chapter, with 25 pages almost as large as chapter 1 (30), larger than 2 (19) and larger than 3 and 4 combined (10, 14). Now I need to go through the 100s of "TBDs" and other remarks... Will keep me busy for a while!


JAL

[hwhatting]

Gefeliciteerd!

[Raholeun]

Quite the accomplishment. Will you post it here when the chapter is done?

[jal]

Gefeliciteerd!

Danke!

Quite the accomplishment. Will you post it here when the chapter is done?

Certainly!


JAL

[Travis B.]

Congratulations!

[masako]

I'm looking for natlang examples of epenthetic consonants, I would appreciate info from anyone that knows, thank you.