Correlatives
Correlatives
am i correct in understanding that the concept of "correlatives" as people use it, and the tables they make of them for this or that language, was invented by zamenhof?? is this a "real" concept in linguistics? idgi
Re: Correlatives
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Re: Correlatives
Yep, it’s definitely a real concept. Many languages even have Esperanto-like regular paradigms, e.g.: Kolyma Yukaghir (Pronouns, Bhat 2004:154):
Though the more usual term these days is ‘proforms’ rather than ‘correlatives’; the latter is the traditional IE term.
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Re: Correlatives
Zamenhof didn't invent it. Back in the old forum I pointed out (while complaining about the repetition of this myth in the LCK) a couple German grammars of Latin from the time before Zamenhof was born that already used the term "correlatives" for the same concept in Latin.
EDIT: actually, it was in this new forum, and it was one grammar not two.
Last edited by Kuchigakatai on Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Correlatives
No, not at all. To take just one example, Bhat’s Pronouns (the same source as in my last post) has a whole two chapters on it, if not more that I’ve missed. Of course, that’s just one book, and it’s true that people mostly don’t pay much attention to it, but it definitely seems like a well-known concept.Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:19 pmI'd also like to mention that it's a very uncommon concept in linguistics outside of the world of Latin / Ancient Greek and Esperanto / Ido.
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Re: Correlatives
I "invented" a table of correlatives for English as a child, and felt very proud of myself. Then I learned it had already been invented. If a literal moron could independently replicate this thing, I'm certain it's been done over and over countless time throughout history. Zamenhof just gets the credit.
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Re: Correlatives
I still disagree, and I think Bhat is simply doing a good job there due to focusing on the phenomena of pronouns specifically. I rarely see reference grammars referring to correlative pronouns as such let alone with a table other than in the languages I mentioned.bradrn wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:45 pmNo, not at all. To take just one example, Bhat’s Pronouns (the same source as in my last post) has a whole two chapters on it, if not more that I’ve missed. Of course, that’s just one book, and it’s true that people mostly don’t pay much attention to it, but it definitely seems like a well-known concept.Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Fri Dec 02, 2022 11:19 pmI'd also like to mention that it's a very uncommon concept in linguistics outside of the world of Latin / Ancient Greek and Esperanto / Ido.
Now, I'd agree the concept of correlative pairs (particularly of conjunctions like "so [adjective] that..." and "as [adjective] as [noun phrase]", not pronouns) and correlative constructions involving them is well-known, but not for correlative pronouns (in a table or not).
And here I wish, if only it were actually more common. I think it's a very useful concept.Moose-tache wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:31 am I "invented" a table of correlatives for English as a child, and felt very proud of myself. Then I learned it had already been invented. If a literal moron could independently replicate this thing, I'm certain it's been done over and over countless time throughout history. Zamenhof just gets the credit.