Conlang fluency thread

[Man in Space]

Áge olhúle adasar ü signa adasar ü
age /lohúle /dahsar ü signa /dahsar ü
COP PL/landsquid PL/adasar DEF concerning PL/adasar DEF
'The adasar are landsquid to the adasar'

[Rounin Ryuuji]

How would your conlang translate "Homo homini lupus"? I am playing with translating some Doctor Zhivago, and that phrase (trans: Человек человеку волк) is giving me headaches.

Most directly:

孰そ者で 誰そ者 危在り。
かそどりで たそどり やびあり。
Kasdori de tasdori yabi ari.
[kʰɐ̀s̪.^n̥t̪ó̞ᵝˑɾ̪ʲì ⁿd̪è̞ tɐ̞̀s̪.^n̥t̪ó̞ᵝˑɾ̪ʲì jɐ̞́ˑ.^mbᶣì ɐ̞́ˑɾ̪ʲì]
"To another person, whatever person is a danger."

Notes:

More: show

孰そ者 (kasdori) "someone else, another person" and 誰そ者 (tasdori) "somebody, anybody, whatever person" are contractions of 孰佬者 (kasodori) and 誰佬者 (tasodori), respectively. The element 者 (tori, -tori, -dori) "person" is very rarely used on its own, but it appears productively in numerous compounds, as 一者 (hitori) "one person, a single person, alone", 勍者 (toltori) the name of a humanoid species (most speakers of the language in-setting are Toltori). 孰佬 (kaso) and 誰佬 (taso) are still present as standalones, meaning "another person" and "someone"; also interrogatives 孰佬れ (kasore), 孰れ (kare) "who is that? who's there?" (generally used when asking about the presence of some unknown person, or for their identity), 誰佬れ (tasore), 誰れ (tare) "who? which person?" (usually asking for specificity). Combined as highly formal or archaic 佬誰孰れ (tasogare) "who's there? who is it?", etymologically identical to 晩曈 (tasgare) "evening twilight", now more usually shifted to 晩暮 (tasgure), influenced by 暮 (kure) "evening, nightfall, dusk".

で (de) is a contraction of にて (nite), both being multi-use oblique particles.

Wolves are, incidentally, not terribly dangerous to Toltori, and so wouldn't be perceived in the same way. I went with 危 (yabi), simply meaning "danger, peril" because it was closer to the sense of the original (the world is also a setting for vaguely fairy-tale like stories, so a number of things don't work quite like they do in our world, and predation is one of them). The word for "wolf" would be 狼 (rau), which is imitative of howling, or 厡犬 (moto-inu), lierally "wild dog".

[foxcatdog]

More Inscriptions

cokwíos nahawatima vusavusaco cavalabríndzici cu
cokwí+X+os nahawati+ma vusa-vusa+co cavala-brínd+zici cu
king-NOM-1pl mask+man=pretender kill-kill+PST wild-dog=wolf+INST form
“Our king mauled the pretender like a wolf”

ɣáti matsonáten lo kwi azana
ɣáti matsúna+ten lo kwi azana
leopard mountains-LOC near here be.found
“Leopards are found in the mountains just ahead”

na kwi ɣátima cozatavanos
na kwi ɣáti+ma cozata-va+os
CLIT here leopard+ACC crown-VERB+1pl
“We’ll crown the leopard here”

This one is in another dialect

na mi siccsi vomoui na ta bisáma vagiδinis
na mi siccsi vomo+ui na ta bisá+ma vagiδan+is
CLIT to holy mother-VOC CLIT DEM.INA sanctuary-ACC say-authoritarily-1pl
“To the holy mother we declare this your sanctuary”

Note standard *vama, *basó and *vaga

[Raholeun]

How would your conlang translate "Homo homini lupus"? I am playing with translating some Doctor Zhivago, and that phrase (trans: Человек человеку волк) is giving me headaches.

Most directly:

孰そ者で 誰そ者 危在り。
かそどりで たそどり やびあり。
Kasdori de tasdori yabi ari.
[kʰɐ̀s̪.n̥t̪ó̞ᵝˑɾ̪ʲì nd̪è̞ tɐ̞̀s̪.n̥t̪ó̞ᵝˑɾ̪ʲì jɐ̞́ˑ.bᶣì ɐ̞́ˑɾ̪ʲì]
"To another person, whatever person is a danger."

Notes:

More: show

孰そ者 (kasdori) "someone else, another person" and 誰そ者 (tasdori) "somebody, anybody, whatever person" are contractions of 孰佬者 (kasodori) and 誰佬者 (tasodori), respectively. The element 者 (tori, -tori, -dori) "person" is very rarely used on its own, but it appears productively in numerous compounds, as 一者 (hitori) "one person, a single person, alone", 勍者 (toltori) the name of a humanoid species (most speakers of the language in-setting are Toltori). 孰佬 (kaso) and 誰佬 (taso) are still present as standalones, meaning "another person" and "someone"; also interrogatives 孰佬れ (kasore), 孰れ (kare) "who is that? who's there?" (generally used when asking about the presence of some unknown person, or for their identity), 誰佬れ (tasore), 誰れ (tare) "who? which person?" (usually asking for specificity). Combined as highly formal or archaic 佬誰孰れ (tasogare) "who's there? who is it?", etymologically identical to 晩曈 (tasgare) "evening twilight", now more usually shifted to 晩暮 (tasgure), influenced by 暮 (kure) "evening, nightfall, dusk".

で (de) is a contraction of にて (nite), both being multi-use oblique particles.

Wolves are, incidentally, not terribly dangerous to Toltori, and so wouldn't be perceived in the same way. I went with 危 (yabi), simply meaning "danger, peril" because it was closer to the sense of the original (the world is also a setting for vaguely fairy-tale like stories, so a number of things don't work quite like they do in our world, and predation is one of them). The word for "wolf" would be 狼 (rau), which is imitative of howling, or 厡犬 (moto-inu), lierally "wild dog".

The level of detail in the expanded notes is wonderful. I too try to make the dictionary for my language encyclopedic, but too often forget to include information on the pragmatics of the word, something you have done very well. Also, I find the phonetic prenasalized alveolar stops strangely appealing.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

The level of detail in the expanded notes is wonderful. I too try to make the dictionary for my language encyclopedic, but too often forget to include information on the pragmatics of the word, something you have done very well. Also, I find the phonetic prenasalized alveolar stops strangely appealing.

Thanks. I realised I made some typos — all voiced stops, and a few of the fricatives, are supposed to be prenasalised (the phonemically voiceless stops and affricates are also all aspirated).

[hwhatting]

How would your conlang translate "Homo homini lupus"? I am playing with translating some Doctor Zhivago, and that phrase (trans: Человек человеку волк) is giving me headaches.

The Tautisca version is basically the same as the Latin, even using cognate words:
Hemus hemunoi wolpus.
person-SG.NOM person-SG.DAT wolf-SG.NOM

[Travis B.]

Lo hällë löri nymalan.
[ɫʷo çæꜜlə ɫʷørʲi nɨmalan]
/ɫʷə çálə ɫʷə=rʲɨ nɨ-ma-la-n/
person.A wolf.A person.A=DAT COP-3.S.A-3.S.A-INDIR
A person is a wolf to a person.

[Travis B.]

Gañihsen ġüä k'ågu âxhan ts'ûṙâtë påġġumuupözän.
[ɡaŋiçɕen ʝyæ̯ kʼɒɡʷu ɑχxan tsʼɯʁɑtʰə pʰɒꜜɣʷumuːpʷøʑæn]
/ɡa-ŋɨç-ɕə-n ʝɨβʷa kʼakʷʰɨ aχ-xa-n tsʼɨχa=tʰə pʰáxʷɨ-mɨ-βʷɨ-pʷə-ɕa-n/
five-four-3.P.B-INDIR woman.B baby.E one-3.S.C-INDIR month.C=INE make-3.S.E-3.P.B-ABILITY-NEG-INDIR
Nine women can't make a baby in one month.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

Gañihsen ġüä k'ågu âxhan ts'ûṙâtë påġġumuupözän.
[ɡaŋiçɕen ʝyæ̯ kʼɒɡʷu ɑχxan tsʼɯʁɑtʰə pʰɒꜜɣʷumuːpʷøʑæn]
/ɡa-ŋɨç-ɕə-n ʝɨβʷa kʼakʷʰɨ aχ-xa-n tsʼɨχa=tʰə pʰáxʷɨ-mɨ-βʷɨ-pʷə-ɕa-n/
five-four-3.P.B-INDIR woman.B baby.E one-3.S.C-INDIR month.C=INE make-3.S.E-3.P.B-ABILITY-NEG-INDIR
Nine women can't make a baby in one month.

Is this an expression of similar meaning, or an internal proverb?

[Travis B.]

Gañihsen ġüä k'ågu âxhan ts'ûṙâtë påġġumuupözän.
[ɡaŋiçɕen ʝyæ̯ kʼɒɡʷu ɑχxan tsʼɯʁɑtʰə pʰɒꜜɣʷumuːpʷøʑæn]
/ɡa-ŋɨç-ɕə-n ʝɨβʷa kʼakʷʰɨ aχ-xa-n tsʼɨχa=tʰə pʰáxʷɨ-mɨ-βʷɨ-pʷə-ɕa-n/
five-four-3.P.B-INDIR woman.B baby.E one-3.S.C-INDIR month.C=INE make-3.S.E-3.P.B-ABILITY-NEG-INDIR
Nine women can't make a baby in one month.

Is this an expression of similar meaning, or an internal proverb?

It is a paraphrase of a quote by the late, great Fred Brooks, who died recently, "The bearing of a child takes nine months, no matter how many women are assigned."

That itself was a paraphrase of a quote by Theodore von Kármán, "Everyone knows it takes a woman nine months to have a baby. But you Americans think if you get nine women pregnant, you can have a baby in a month."

[jal]

How would your conlang translate "Homo homini lupus"?

Good question. I had to google what it means in the first place, I don't understand Latin :). In Sajiwan, probably something like:

Man ste ulf twoh oda man

But I'm not quite sure about the preposition. In fake germanic, it would be something like (using the dative for "to man"):

Wer is werer wulf


JAL

[hwhatting]

Nine women can't make a baby in one month.

Nu newun benás dédin ainé mésé dichten nemochoris.
PRTC nine woman-PL.NOM baby-SG.ACC one-M.SG.LOC month-SG.LOC make-INF NEG-can-3PL.PRES.ACT

[jal]

Sajiwan:
Nayn uman in kano bohn no cahl tek wan mons.
Nine women can't give birth to a child taking one month.

Fake germanic:
Niwunes wyfes niskales beraden barnam ajni mensi.
Nine women can't bear a child taking one month

In both languages I've used the instrumental for "in one month".


JAL

[xxx]

aHPXnèéQIWXXYÇPnæðWEX9O*óýÜSFwR
one child not future given by 280 wombs using only one day...

(time is counted in days in 3SDL...)

[Pedant]

Salvian:

Mu sahajgalar hulnaa kirshinan chin tandhaś chin-hulnaa haraar.
Not transform-simp.int-5sE woman-GEN.S childbirth-LOC.S nine month-NOM.PL nine-woman-GEN.S one-DAT.S
“You cannot turn nine months of one woman’s childbirth into one for nine women.”

[Travis B.]

Lenänûṙṙâlååtġë lenänûṙṙâxûri ñåġoran tsá lá hot'álläsät.
[ʎẽæ̯̃nɯꜜʁɑlɒːtʰɣə ʎẽæ̯̃nɯꜜʁɑχɯrʲi ŋʷɒɣʷoran tsʰaːꜜ laːꜜ xʷotʼaːꜜlæɕætʰ]
/ʎəna-nɨ́χa-la-ɣʷa-tʰ-ɣə ʎəna-nɨ́χa-χɨ=rʲɨ ŋʷaɡʷə-ra-n tsʰáː láː xʷətʼáː-la-ɕa-tʰ/
code.D-scratch-1.S-DESIRE-DIR-CONV exist-3.S.D-IND INT 3.S.D know-1.S-NEG-DIR
I want to program but don't know what to program.

[jal]

Since I have nothing to say, here's the opening paragraph of chapter 5 of the Hobbit, "Dem rigl ina dahk" (or "insay dahk", not sure yet):

Wen Bilbo opn fi ay, im ponda wen im redi mek; kos it a sem blaknis, opn o cot. No man de atan atol. Pica fi fiya! Im in me lisn non, luk non, an fil non pas ston a di gwon.

"When Bilbo opened his eyes, he wondered if he had; for it was just as dark as with them shut. No one was anywhere near him. Just imagine his fright! He could hear nothing, see nothing, and he could feel nothing except the stone of the floor."


JAL

[jal]

Since it's almost Christmas... The first verse of "Silent night" in Sajiwan.

Saylan nay, oli nay
Kwaya wohl, ol a bway
Say dis da medm, moda an cayl
Oli pikin so sof an so mayl
Slip ina piyas a ebn
Slip ina piyas a eb'

Nothing too surprising, as hymns are translated pretty much 1:1 from English, even in case the word order or meaning would be slightly un-Sajiwan. The only change is in line 2, where "kwaya wohl", "quiet world" is used to fit the meter. "Ol a kwaya" is a syllable to much, and in this case leaving out the last syllable of "kwaya" would result in the meaning "everyone is crying" :).

And in fake Germanic, a somewhat hasty, literal translation from the original German (no time for a gloss):

Tystar naht, hajlikar naht,
Alawiht slapes, alajna bydes
Ajnes bifrijana hajlika hiwan
Skon knap medi krulikan heren
Slypese ine hemilikan rasten
Slypese ine hemilikan rasten

More: show

Stille Nacht! Heilige Nacht!
Alles schläft; einsam wacht
Nur das traute heilige Paar.
Holder Knab im lockigten Haar,
Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh!
Schlafe in himmlischer Ruh!

JAL

[foxcatdog]

di wøø lana sũntai ɣopa
2.pl wish have summer+auspicious=summer.festival happy
“You lot have a happy summer festival”

[xxx]

Happy Christmas...