The Most Holy Spinozist Church of Utter Sublimity

[rotting bones]

Edit. Website: https://themostholyspinozistchurchofut. ... sites.com/

According to the new interpretation of the Constitution, citing religious commitments lets us do whatever we want:

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm ... id=4269319
(You need to click on the "Open PDF in Browser" box; directly linking to the pdf doesn't seem to work.)
(Schraub is, for my taste, too far to the left on what might be called "identity politics" issues, and at the same time not left-wing enough on Israel/Palestine issues, but he nevertheless often makes good points.)
As you might know, as part of their recent rampage through US constitutional law, conservative judges in the USA have established an interpretation of the US Constitution under which Freedom of Religion basically means that you're allowed to break the law if your religion tells you to.

What are we waiting for? Let's create a Spinozist religious organization and cite the "intellectual love of God" to demand access to corporate and state secrets:

You can interpret Spinoza's Ethics as saying that the world is saturated by two aspects: matter and representation. The underlying substance of which these are aspects is called "God". The drive to know all matter and its representation is the "intellectual love of God".

The first hurdle to the legitimacy of such an organization is the fact that Spinoza was bitterly opposed to organized religion. We must make sure our church never falls into any of Spinoza's criticisms of organized religion. So no Spanish Inquisition.

Think of all the medical treatments we can give away for free!

[Ares Land]

I'm pretty vague about Spinoza, but as I recall he was some kind of pantheist, which is I think the form of theism that makes the most sense.
Count me in.

[hwhatting]

The first hurdle to the legitimacy of such an organization is the fact that Spinoza was bitterly opposed to organized religion. We must make sure our church never falls into any of Spinoza's criticisms of organized religion.

When did what the founders of religions wanted ever count? Look at what Jesus said about money and worldly riches, or loving your enemies, and what the Christian churches did with that...

[Travis B.]

I wonder if anyone has applied this concept to Discordianism...

[Torco]

Count me in. hell, ordain me as a knight of espionage.

then again, conservative judges in the us tend to only rule in favour of their own white people religion so... uttersubliminism might end up kind of like islam. maybe we should also use funny hats to be stereotyped around.

[Moose-tache]

You guys are way late to the party. The Satanist Temple has been running this con for decades, playing along with conservative Christian attempts to increase the role of religion in public life so they can embarrass them by showing how it will backfire. You want prayer in school? Great, let's praise Satan! This has lead them to encourage conservative Christians to pursue greater religous influence, which other activist groups criticize. For example, they helped with the paper work for a school prayer rally featuring people like Milo Yiannopoulis, because they were excited to get to the part where they show that school prayer would require tolertaing Satanist prayer, leading to the conservative Christians changing their minds. It's a goof plan in many ways, but in the mean time, you have to listen to Milo Yiannopoulis. Maybe not worth it.

Then there's the Church of Our Lady of the Perpetual Exemption, a stunt by John Oliver to see how much they can cheat the IRS by pretending to be a religion.

The missing piece in all of these is that nobody actually believes in this the same way Christians believe in Christianity. Once the joke fails to land, leftists inevitably flee the fake religion in droves. What you need is an actual, established religion that conservative Christians hate. In other words, if you want this prank to really work, you need to become Muslim.

[Raphael]

What you need is an actual, established religion that conservative Christians hate. In other words, if you want this prank to really work, you need to become Muslim.

Reform Judaism would work, too. Or Conservative Judaism, for extra trolling points. Except that the whole point of the paper I linked to in the post that started this is that conservative judges will simply interpret "religion" to mean whatever they want it to mean, because reasons.

[hwhatting]

Reform Judaism would work, too. Or Conservative Judaism, for extra trolling points.

Why do you think so? Although there are classical anti-semitists on the right, a lot of Christian fundies are actually quite friendly with Judaism, especially the more conservative and the muscular Zionist variants. Why do you think e.g. Trump recognised Jerusalem as capital of Israel? Because it played well with his base. Quite often, you will hear about Judeo-Christian values on the right - it's like an (un)holy alliance against the "godless" Left.

[bradrn]

Reform Judaism would work, too. Or Conservative Judaism, for extra trolling points.

Why do you think so?

The earlier discussion was around the fact that Orthodox Judaism e.g. requires abortion in certain circumstances.

[hwhatting]

The earlier discussion was around the fact that Orthodox Judaism e.g. requires abortion in certain circumstances.

Well, I guess these circumstances, which have to do with the life of the mother, can be accomodated except for by the most rabid anti-abortion laws. But yes, it would be interesting to see how the "Judeo-Christian values" types and the abortion fundies would square their approaches here. Most conservatives will probably fudge the issue, as intellectual consistency seems not to be in big demand on the right currently.

[Raphael]

Why do you think so? Although there are classical anti-semitists on the right, a lot of Christian fundies are actually quite friendly with Judaism, especially the more conservative and the muscular Zionist variants.

I was talking specifically about Reform Judaism and Conservative Judaism, both of which are often quite culturally liberal on ethical matters. I mentioned "extra trolling points" for Conservative Judaism because it might be fun to challenge culturally conservative laws in the name of a religious movement that actually has the word "Conservative" as part of it's name.

One of the main points of the legal paper that I linked to in the post that started this discussion is that the most likely end result of such efforts is for conservative Christian judges to declare that Reform and Conservative Jews aren't really Jews at all - after all, who knows more about what is or isn't authentically Jewish than conservative Christians?

Why do you think e.g. Trump recognised Jerusalem as capital of Israel? Because it played well with his base. Quite often, you will hear about Judeo-Christian values on the right - it's like an (un)holy alliance against the "godless" Left.

On the general matter of Evangelical Christian attitudes towards Jews, there's this, much shorter, piece by the same author (pdf):

https://www.associationforjewishstudies ... f?sfvrsn=0

(And judging from what I've seen on his blog, you don't want to get that author started on the term "Judeo-Christian".)

[hwhatting]

Why do you think so? Although there are classical anti-semitists on the right, a lot of Christian fundies are actually quite friendly with Judaism, especially the more conservative and the muscular Zionist variants.

I was talking specifically about Reform Judaism and Conservative Judaism, both of which are often quite culturally liberal on ethical matters. I mentioned "extra trolling points" for Conservative Judaism because it might be fun to challenge culturally conservative laws in the name of a religious movement that actually has the word "Conservative" as part of it's name.

I gues this all will get as far as liberal Christians and liberal Christian denominations when they challenge the Conservative monopolisation of religious rhetoric - the Conservatives will ignore it, because only someone who agrees with them is a real Christian (or Jew).
And the other thing is the general problem of moderates (Secular, Jewish, or Christian) - they don't have the sheer bull-headedness and bloody-mimdedness to keep up the trolling and shouting. So that's the problem with your wish - the only Jews the fundies take serious (muscular Zionists and Orthodox) won't do the trolling, because they are allies of the Conservatives, and the others won't have their heart in it.

[Ares Land]

Seen on Reddit through Mastodon: an employee insisting she can't use Windows or MacOS for religious reasons.

Now that's a watertight case for the Supreme Court.

[bradrn]

Seen on Reddit through Mastodon: an employee insisting she can't use Windows or MacOS for religious reasons.

Now that's a watertight case for the Supreme Court.

Hah! Link please?

[Ares Land]

Here you go: https://piaille.fr/@wbm312@infosec.exch ... 0085685856

[rotting bones]

I am such an idiot: https://themostholyspinozistchurchofut. ... sites.com/

The first "sermon" is up on the blog: https://themostholyspinozistchurchofut. ... f/sermon-1 Can't tell if it's readable.

[Ares Land]

Wonderful, father. That sermon made me laugh.

[Torco]

Cool website!

seeing as i'm already a philosophical monist (in a mereological nihilist or at least mereological fictivist sort of a way) and I already figure god means whatever the believer wants, I think the most difficult thing for me as an uttersubliminist is going to be optimism.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

That was a very pleasant read.

[rotting bones]

Thanks guys, I feel like I'm letting you down with this one: https://themostholyspinozistchurchofut. ... f/sermon-2

All criticism is welcome. In fact, all sapient beings are free to preach from the pulpit of this church. Let me know if the notion amuses you.