English questions

[WeepingElf]

Are you sure you don't mean "chili"?

[zompist]

Chile and chili are variants. Apparently chili is more common in the UK, though it's used here too. Probably we use chile more because that's what it is in Spanish.

The American Heritage Dictionary has chili for the pepper, chile for the dish-- i.e. chile con carne, i.e. chile pepper, meat, and often beans.

[Rounin Ryuuji]

I always tend to use chilli for the pepper, and Chile for the country; I'd always assumed "chile" for the pepper or dish was a typographical error.

[bradrn]

I always tend to use chilli for the pepper, and Chile for the country; I'd always assumed "chile" for the pepper or dish was a typographical error.

I’d also call ‘chile’ for the vegetable a typographic error. (And likewise ‘Chilli’ for the country, if anyone were to do that.)

[Travis B.]

I think more Americans associate chile with the pepper and the dish than with the country - I don't think most Americans really think that much about Chile. Also, to me, chile, chili, and chilli are equally valid for the pepper and the dish, while only Chile is valid for the country.

[Raphael]

Thank you, everyone!

[Linguoboy]

I prefer "chili" for both food and dish because "chile" is a homonym for "chile", an AAVE variant of "child" often used as a term of endearment (and believe it or not, this does confuse me sometimes).

[Raphael]

I prefer "chili" for both food and dish because "chile" is a homonym for "chile", an AAVE variant of "child" often used as a term of endearment (and believe it or not, this does confuse me sometimes).

So "chili" and "chile" aren't homonyms? Interesting.

[bradrn]

I heard a quite remarkable example of intrusive /r/ today, in the form of ‘kilo/r/ohms’ (homophonous with ‘killer-ohms’). How common is this?

[Linguoboy]

I prefer "chili" for both food and dish because "chile" is a homonym for "chile", an AAVE variant of "child" often used as a term of endearment (and believe it or not, this does confuse me sometimes).

So "chili" and "chile" aren't homonyms? Interesting.

Whether they are homophones depends on the meaning. "Chile" as a term of endearment is pronounced /ˈt͡ʃaɪl/. (Because this is a Southern American/AAVE usage, there is often some degree of smoothing in the diphthong if not complete monophthongisation.)

[Travis B.]

I heard a quite remarkable example of intrusive /r/ today, in the form of ‘kilo/r/ohms’ (homophonous with ‘killer-ohms’). How common is this?

How do you kill someone with ohms, btw? I can see killing people with amperes or farads, but ohms?

[Raphael]

I prefer "chili" for both food and dish because "chile" is a homonym for "chile", an AAVE variant of "child" often used as a term of endearment (and believe it or not, this does confuse me sometimes).

So "chili" and "chile" aren't homonyms? Interesting.

Whether they are homophones depends on the meaning. "Chile" as a term of endearment is pronounced /ˈt͡ʃaɪl/. (Because this is a Southern American/AAVE usage, there is often some degree of smoothing in the diphthong if not complete monophthongisation.)

Thank you!

I heard a quite remarkable example of intrusive /r/ today, in the form of ‘kilo/r/ohms’ (homophonous with ‘killer-ohms’). How common is this?

How do you kill someone with ohms, btw? I can see killing people with amperes or farads, but ohms?

Putting too many ohms into the power supply for their life support system?

[Travis B.]

This is not really an English question but an English comment. I work with an Indian-American guy who, because he has a very good American accent, I thought might have grown up here in the US (he has a very Indian name). However, he has recently made comments that made me think that he might at least have close connections with India or may have even recently come from India. The thing, though, that got me about his accent, if he really only recently came from India, is that he seemingly effortlessly gets rounded front and central vowels right - and people who did not learn NAE at a relatively early age seem to almost invariably fail to properly front their rounded back vowels. To me it is a classic marker of not being a native NAE-speaker. (I am not sure if L2 English speakers are even really taught about vowel fronting in English.) Any thoughts here?

[zompist]

The thing, though, that got me about his accent, if he really only recently came from India, is that he seemingly effortlessly gets rounded front and central vowels right

It may depend on where he's from. Hindi, for instance, has pretty lax short vowels-- the Hindi vowels look remarkably like English.

But Indian programmers are often from the south, so you'd want to look at Telugu, Tamil, Malayalam, etc.

Also, of course, people just have different histories and aptitudes for phonology. E.g. he might have a lot of interaction with Americans; he might have been here a long time but (like many Indian-Americans) frequently visit India; he might have made an effort to get the vowels right.

[Travis B.]

The thing, though, that got me about his accent, if he really only recently came from India, is that he seemingly effortlessly gets rounded front and central vowels right

It may depend on where he's from. Hindi, for instance, has pretty lax short vowels-- the Hindi vowels look remarkably like English.

But Indian programmers are often from the south, so you'd want to look at Telugu, Tamil, Malayalam, etc.

Also, of course, people just have different histories and aptitudes for phonology. E.g. he might have a lot of interaction with Americans; he might have been here a long time but (like many Indian-Americans) frequently visit India; he might have made an effort to get the vowels right.

What I mean is he realizes GOOSE, FOOT, and GOAT as [y], [ʏ], and [ɵ̞] in just the right places seemingly automatically. Hindi to my knowledge does not have these phones or anything like them. And from searching the Interwebs I'm having trouble finding anything that talks about English rounded vowel front-back allophony, which implies that it isn't really taught. (What I have found talks about centralization, but makes it sounds as if it were an unconditional sound shift rather than allophony.)

[zompist]

What I mean is he realizes GOOSE, FOOT, and GOAT as [y], [ʏ], and [ɵ̞] in just the right places seemingly automatically.

FWIW Malayalam has a central /ɨ̆/. But I've never heard goose as [gys]. I know English /u/ is pretty far forward, but it contrasts strongly with [y] for me.

If you interact with him a lot, or if this is common in your area, perhaps he's imitating you!

[Travis B.]

What I mean is he realizes GOOSE, FOOT, and GOAT as [y], [ʏ], and [ɵ̞] in just the right places seemingly automatically.

FWIW Malayalam has a central /ɨ̆/. But I've never heard goose as [gys]. I know English /u/ is pretty far forward, but it contrasts strongly with [y] for me.

If you interact with him a lot, or if this is common in your area, perhaps he's imitating you!

Nah, here goose is [ɡ̥us] or maybe [ɡ̥ʉs] (I tend to be more conservative in this regard than many here). It is never [ɡ̥ys], which would sound exceedingly strange to my ears. Fundamentally, it is allophonic - fronted GOOSE and FOOT and centralized GOAT after coronals and palatals except with a dorsal coda, where then they may be retracted some or may break into a front-back diphthong depending on the speaker. For instance it is normal to have [y] and [ʉ̞ʊ̯]~[ʉ̞] in two and took here. Note that this [y] is essentially [ʉ] shifted front of center ─ it has no special lip rounding, unlike, say, Standard Swedish [yː].

However, how far front GOOSE and FOOT are when not preceded by coronals and palatals varies heavily by the speaker. For instance, for me these are unambiguously fully backed vowels, i.e. [u] and [ʊ], e.g in kook and cook. However, I hear other people here, such as my daughter, who have [ʉ] and [ʉ̞] at least sporadicaly for GOOSE and FOOT not preceded by a coronal or palatal.

He could very well be imitating people here, and if he is he's doing a very good job of it. And yes, I do interact with him a lot, as he's the scrum master for my team.

[Raphael]

Unrelated: Which dialect of Hiberno-English is the one that turns the English "th" into something that sounds a lot like a simple "t"? As in, "I tink tat tis is very important"? I myself first heard that variety in Dublin, but Dublin is, of course, a city where a lot of people from all over the country moved in search of work.

[Linguoboy]

Unrelated: Which dialect of Hiberno-English is the one that turns the English "th" into something that sounds a lot like a simple "t"? As in, "I tink tat tis is very important"? I myself first heard that variety in Dublin, but Dublin is, of course, a city where a lot of people from all over the country moved in search of work.

It's not one particular dialect; it's general in Irish English outside of Ulster. (The Wikipedia article even calls it "defining characteristic of Hiberno-English".)

None of these varieties, however, merges /ð/ and /θ/. This distinction is always maintained. Your example should read: "I tink dat dis is very important." Some varieties with th-stopping maintain the distinction between /ð/ and /θ/ and /d/ and /t/ by realising the first pair as dentals and the second as alveolars (a distinction derived from Irish, where the dental series is only truly dental when non-palatalised).

[mocha]

Unrelated: Which dialect of Hiberno-English is the one that turns the English "th" into something that sounds a lot like a simple "t"? As in, "I tink tat tis is very important"? I myself first heard that variety in Dublin, but Dublin is, of course, a city where a lot of people from all over the country moved in search of work.

I think that's (θ -> t) a feature of many Irish English dialects. Richie Kavanagh does this, I believe, so wherever he grew up would be one such location. Although I don't think I've ever heard ð -> t.