Pronunciation of Standard English in America (1919)

[Travis B.]

didn't you say you're in the US? /ˈfɪɡjər/ is definitely the standard here (in 2023 or in 1919), i don't think i've ever heard an american say /ˈfɪɡər/

Yeah, I am a Wisconsinite, and you do hear /ˈfɪɡər/ in everyday speech here.

[Raphael]

didn't you say you're in the US? /ˈfɪɡjər/ is definitely the standard here (in 2023 or in 1919), i don't think i've ever heard an american say /ˈfɪɡər/

Yeah, I am a Wisconsinite, and you do hear /ˈfɪɡər/ in everyday speech here.

50 states separated by a common language?

[Rounin Ryuuji]

Sometimes, yes.

[Ryusenshi]

I've seen "biled" for "boiled" in old sources, though I forget which. But I definitely boggle at "jine" for "join."

The old song "Oh My Darling Clementine" has jine for join.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/College_ ... Clementine

[Emily]

welcome to the jungle consonants

b

• silent b appears in in words either before t (debt, doubt, subtle, subtly) or after m (bomb, dumb, climb, comb, crum, jamb, lamb, lambkin, numb/number/numbest, aplomb, plumb, plumber, tomb)
• rhomb sometimes has the "learned pronunciation" [rɔmb], and the pronunciation of [ˈaɪˌæmb] for iamb is general
• in cupboard the p is silent
• in Jacob, Jacobs, Jacobson the b "very generally becomes voiceless"

d

• the book states that [d] is regularly assimilated to [t] after voiced consonants, but the only examples it gives are final -ed (backed, baked, sniffed, etc.)
• [t] sometimes becomes [d] "in relaxed and slovenly speech": belated [bɪˈleːdəd], rated [ˈreːdəd] ("scarcely distinguished in pronunciation from raided"), fitted [ˈfɪdəd]; putty "frequently" becomes [ˈpʌdɪ] "in popular speech", while the pronunciations [ˈwɔdə] for water, [ˈlɛdə] for letter, [ˈbɪdə] for bitter appear "in some dialects"
• some verb forms where we expect to find [d] after [l] or [n] instead are pronounced [t], which may or may not be spelled t: learned, learnt; burned, burnt; spoiled, spoilt. he notes that this is arbitrary; spilled can be [spɪlt] but killed cannot be [kɪlt] "except in dialect Irish-English, where pronunciations with [t] are found in many preterites and past participles which have only [d] in standard English"
• he notes that used is widely pronounced [juːst] in the phrase "used to" meaning "be accustomed to" or the past habitual (I used to go [aɪ ˈjuːstə ˈgoʊ]); the text seems to imply that when it means "be accustomed to" there may be two [t]s, but this could just be a misreading on my part
• in the same paragraph, he notes that a similar assimilation is found in I had to go [aɪ ˈhæt(ː)ə ˈgoʊ] — i have [dː] here, maybe occasionally just [d], but never [t]!
• [d] is often omitted "in standard familiar speech" between [n] and a consonant: grandmother, handkerchief, handsome, Windsor, brand-new ("also spelled bran-new"); unstressed and is often just [n]. he declares, however, that this deletion isn't universal: dropping the [d] in band-box, landlady, landlord is "heard only in careless or very rapid speech"
• in popular speech, [d] is sometimes inserted after [n] in stressed syllables: [drɑʊnd] for drown, [gɑʊnd] for gown
• [dʒ] is sometimes rendered [ʒ] after [n], [l], or [r], though he notes that "the pronunciation with [d] is to be preferred": angel, danger, hinge, impinge, strange; barge, large, forge, urge; bilge, bulge, indulge

g
[g] (in modern transcription /g/) "varies considerably according to its vocalic surrounding"; he refers back to an earlier chapter, where he describes the [g] in gong as "a voiced back soft-palate stop" but in geese or fatigue as "a voiced front hard-palate stop"

• g is silent before [m] or [n] in many words: paradigm, phlegm, foreign, etc. while phlegm is [flɛm], phlegmatic is always [flɛgˈmætɪ]
• the standard pronunciation he lists for paradigm is [ˈpærədɪm], with [ˈpærəˌdaɪm] only a variant
• the usual pronunciation of poignant is [ˈpɔɪnənt], with a spelling pronunciation [ˈpɔɪgnənt] also in circulation — no mention of today's standard [ˈpɔɪnjənt]
• he notes that [g] is inserted after [ŋ] in comparatives and superlatives—stronger, strongest, younger, youngest, longer, longest—but not in words like bringer, hanger, ringer, singer, stringer; he states that the former is "through the influence of the comparative with [ɹ]" (putting them in the same category as anger, angry, finger), while the latter is through the influence of the head forms
• languor has three different current pronunciations: [ˈlæŋɚɹ], [ˈlæŋgɚɹ], [ˈlæŋgwɚɹ], with the first two more common than the third
• recognizance is usually pronounced with [g], less often without; he cites reconnaissance as basically just a different spelling of the same ([g]-less) word (though with the [z] pronounced as [s])
• gh is always silent, except when it stands for [f], "or in a few words for [g]"

[zompist]

welcome to the jungle consonants
[*]in Jacob, Jacobs, Jacobson the b "very generally becomes voiceless"

True for me!

[*]he notes that used is widely pronounced [juːst] in the phrase "used to" meaning "be accustomed to" or the past habitual (I used to go [aɪ ˈjuːstə ˈgoʊ]); the text seems to imply that when it means "be accustomed to" there may be two [t]s, but this could just be a misreading on my part
[*]in the same paragraph, he notes that a similar assimilation is found in I had to go [aɪ ˈhæt(ː)ə ˈgoʊ] — i have [dː] here, maybe occasionally just [d], but never [t]!

Also true for me. It's [ju:zd] only in the sense of 'utilized'.

[Ketsuban]

Unlike with vowels where there's lots of interesting differences to both modern American Englishes and my own British English, this mostly had me going "yep".

the usual pronunciation of poignant is [ˈpɔɪnənt], with a spelling pronunciation [ˈpɔɪgnənt] also in circulation — no mention of today's standard [ˈpɔɪnjənt]

The various spellings in Middle English and Anglo-Norman suggest both palatal and nonpalatal pronunciations have existed for centuries.

[Travis B.]

welcome to the jungle consonants
[*]in Jacob, Jacobs, Jacobson the b "very generally becomes voiceless"

True for me!

This is true, but not in the way people might think, for me - in all these words /b/ is pronounced [p] but it phonemically remains /b/ - the vowel before it remains long (rather than being short as if it were /p/) and the consonant is not preglottalized (rather than being preglottalized as if it were /p/),

[*]he notes that used is widely pronounced [juːst] in the phrase "used to" meaning "be accustomed to" or the past habitual (I used to go [aɪ ˈjuːstə ˈgoʊ]); the text seems to imply that when it means "be accustomed to" there may be two [t]s, but this could just be a misreading on my part
[*]in the same paragraph, he notes that a similar assimilation is found in I had to go [aɪ ˈhæt(ː)ə ˈgoʊ] — i have [dː] here, maybe occasionally just [d], but never [t]!

Also true for me. It's [ju:zd] only in the sense of 'utilized'.

I have [t] or [tː] (but never [dː] or [d]) in had to), and I have [jysʲtʲ] in the "be accustomed to" or past habitual senses but [jyːsʲtʲ] (note the vowel length difference) in the sense of "utilized".

[zompist]

welcome to the jungle consonants
[*]in Jacob, Jacobs, Jacobson the b "very generally becomes voiceless"

True for me!

This is true, but not in the way people might think, for me - in all these words /b/ is pronounced [p] but it phonemically remains /b/ - the vowel before it remains long (rather than being short as if it were /p/) and the consonant is not preglottalized (rather than being preglottalized as if it were /p/),

"Jacob" doesn't have a lengthened vowel for me; it contrasts with "carob" which does have a /b/.

I do have a lengthened vowel in "ride" [ra:jd] as opposed to "write" [rajt], but it disappears in "rider", which thus merges with "writer".

[Travis B.]

True for me!

This is true, but not in the way people might think, for me - in all these words /b/ is pronounced [p] but it phonemically remains /b/ - the vowel before it remains long (rather than being short as if it were /p/) and the consonant is not preglottalized (rather than being preglottalized as if it were /p/),

"Jacob" doesn't have a lengthened vowel for me; it contrasts with "carob" which does have a /b/.

I should note that whether consonants phonemically devoice is not predictable IMD, even though they usually don't except for in words like have to, has to, and supposed to. Note that Pabst, as in the name and the brand of beer, phonemically has /p/ here (of course, it probably phonemically had /p/ in the original German anyways).

I do have a lengthened vowel in "ride" [ra:jd] as opposed to "write" [rajt], but it disappears in "rider", which thus merges with "writer".

I have a long vowel in both ride and rider, and a short vowel (with raising) in both write and writer. It should be noted that I have minimal pairs for vowel length alone in pairs like latter and ladder, matter and madder, winter and winner, and so on.

[Emily]

h

• h is pronounced in human, humble, humor, though "perhaps [ˈjuːmɚɹ] should be recognized as an occasional cultivated pronunciation"
• herb is sometimes pronounced with /h/ but more frequently pronounced without; the same is also true of the names Humphrey and Humphries
• despite that, the /h/ is always pronounced in herbage, herbalist, herbarium, etc.
• the spelling pronunciation [ˈfɔrˌhɛd] for forehead is only "occasionally heard"
• two of the three examples he gives for initial /h/ being dropped in weakly stressed syllables come after an: an historical novel, an heraldic device — using "an" with these words is possibly the most pretentious thing you could do in the english language. imo

j

• in popular speech, yeast is often pronounced [ˈiːst]
• column is frequently pronounced [ˈkɑljəm] in "illiterate speech"
• surveillance is either [sɚɹˈveːləns] or [sɚɹˈveːljəns]

k

• schism is pronounced [ˈsɪzm]
• flaccid is pronounced [ˈf'læksɪd]

l
most of this section discusses whether l is or isn't silent in a given word

• almond is normally [ˈɑːmnd] but in popular speech is "not infrequently" [ˈælmənd], no mention of today's standard [ˈɑlmənd]
• though [gɔlf] for golf is "perhaps the more common pronunciation in America", he also lists the pronunciation [gɔːf]
• he makes sure to let you know the l is silent in Lincoln. just in case you weren't aware

[Estav]

[*]column is frequently pronounced [ˈkɑljəm] in "illiterate speech"

I've never heard of that, but I've seen kind of a reverse phenomenon of people using spellings like "vacumn" and "volumn".

[*]almond is normally [ˈɑːmnd] but in popular speech is "not infrequently" [ˈælmənd], no mention of today's standard [ˈɑlmənd]

I couldn't tell from the way you worded this if you meant to say [ˈɑlmənd] is standard alongside [ˈɑːmnd] and [ˈælmənd], or instead of them.
I have always used [ˈɑːmənd] and all the dictionaries I've checked list it without comment... I'm cot-caught merged but I'd imagine some speakers use [ɔlm] or [ɔm].

Hmm. The Harvard dialect survey results are surprising to me, though: 59.68% all-mond vs. 18.69% ah-mond. That suggests that [ɔlm] is in fact the most common pronunciation.

[bradrn]

two of the three examples he gives for initial /h/ being dropped in weakly stressed syllables come after an: an historical novel, an heraldic device — using "an" with these words is possibly the most pretentious thing you could do in the english language. imo

I see this fairly regularly. I’d say that use of ⟨æ œ⟩, or the diaeresis, are more pretentious. (Obviously, by that logic, the most pretentious spelling in the English language ought to be diæ̈resis!)

[Emily]

[*]column is frequently pronounced [ˈkɑljəm] in "illiterate speech"

I've never heard of that, but I've seen kind of a reverse phenomenon of people using spellings like "vacumn" and "volumn".

[*]almond is normally [ˈɑːmnd] but in popular speech is "not infrequently" [ˈælmənd], no mention of today's standard [ˈɑlmənd]

I couldn't tell from the way you worded this if you meant to say [ˈɑlmənd] is standard alongside [ˈɑːmnd] and [ˈælmənd], or instead of them.
I have always used [ˈɑːmənd] and all the dictionaries I've checked list it without comment... I'm cot-caught merged but I'd imagine some speakers use [ɔlm] or [ɔm].

Hmm. The Harvard dialect survey results are surprising to me, though: 59.68% all-mond vs. 18.69% ah-mond. That suggests that [ɔlm] is in fact the most common pronunciation.

i don't think i've ever in my life heard "almond" pronounced without an /l/. i've always heard "all" (not sure if this is /al/, /ɑl/, or /ɔl/ outside the cot-caught zone), except one fairly sheltered young person i used to know who pronounced it /æl/

[Nortaneous]

/ɑl/ is generally from earlier /ɒl/ (incl. in cauliflower /kʰɑlɨflæwər/) or recent loans (Kali Yuga /kʰɑlɨj juwgə/) - almond has /ɔlm-/ (which can be [ɔˁm-] even for people who don't generally have l-vocalization)

[Linguoboy]

almond has /ɔlm-/ (which can be [ɔˁm-] even for people who don't generally have l-vocalization)

The /l/ there is intrusive and still sounds odd to me (though not as much as in the spelling pronunciation of salmon).

[Travis B.]

almond has /ɔlm-/ (which can be [ɔˁm-] even for people who don't generally have l-vocalization)

The /l/ there is intrusive and still sounds odd to me (though not as much as in the spelling pronunciation of salmon).

My salmon always is /ˈsæmən/, and never has /l/ in it, which would sound extremely odd to me.

As for almond, as was discussed here on the Zeeb a bit back, it seems that many people here (not all people, though, as this applies to my mother, who is from Kenosha, but not to my father, who is from the Milwaukee area) acquired an intrusive /l/ in many PALM words, which then later got vocalized away again, but still left behind vowel coloring.

[foxcatdog]

I always though schism was pronounced with a *k

[Emily]

I always though schism was pronounced with a *k

it is today!

[Travis B.]

I always though schism was pronounced with a *k

it is today!

It's always been with a /k/ for me.