On the frequency of personal names

[alice]

I recently found myself wondering: "historically, in a group of N people of the same birth gender from the same geographical area, how many shared their first names?". After a bit of searching I found this, which contains the rather remarkable statistic that in England and Wales around 1800, within each gender over half the people had one of only three names. This is definitely something to bear in mind if you need to find names for a large number of people in a relatively homogenous society. It also gives you opportunities to think of interesting ways your conculture would tell people with the same name apart; one which comes to mind is the Welsh use of, for example, "Jones-the-phoneme" versus "Jones-the-sound-change-applier".

I'd be very interested to know if anyone knows anything comparable in other languages or cultures. I can only think of two:

- One of the three names given to a Roman male came from a set of anout twelve
- At one point in Norway, so many girls were called Anna that it became usual to give them a second first name, thus Anna Maria, Anna Christina, etc.

[foxcatdog]

But the real question is what percentage of names came from popular fiction books.

[Man in Space]

But the real question is what percentage of names came from popular fiction books.

“Cedric” comes from a misspelt “Cerdic” in Chaucer’s Canterbury Tales, and I’ve heard of at least one guy who changed his name to “Luke Skywalker”. There’s also the infamously memetic school picture of one “Jed I. Knight”.

[Linguoboy]

I'd be very interested to know if anyone knows anything comparable in other languages or cultures. I can only think of two:

- One of the three names given to a Roman male came from a set of anout twelve
- At one point in Norway, so many girls were called Anna that it became usual to give them a second first name, thus Anna Maria, Anna Christina, etc.

The first example that comes to mind is Akan day names. It looks like there are many variants, so perhaps that's one way Akan-speakers avoid confusion. (A familiar parallel would be the multiplicity of hypocoristics for "Robert" and "Richard" in mediaeval England.)

The Romans weren't the only culture to make extensive use of names based on birth order. They were formally common for males in Japan, for instance. (There are quite a few Japanese men my age named Ken'ichi, where the "ichi" element--meaning "one"--indicates a first-born male.)

"Muhammad" is still a runaway favourite given name for males in most of the Islamic world. I'm sure the percentage in some countries is pretty eye-watering.

[Creyeditor]

Many places in Indonesia also use birth order names, either in the local/regional language (e.g. Balinese) or in Sanskrit (i.e. eka, dwi, tri, catur, panca). In Java, there are some places with a strong mononymic tradition, i.e. people have only a single name. I wonder if there is a place in Indonesia with mostly mononymic birth order names.

[Linguoboy]

Many places in Indonesia also use birth order names, either in the local/regional language (e.g. Balinese) or in Sanskrit (i.e. eka, dwi, tri, catur, panca). In Java, there are some places with a strong mononymic tradition, i.e. people have only a single name. I wonder if there is a place in Indonesia with mostly mononymic birth order names.

I wondered that, too. In Bali, they regularly appear with personal names, e.g. the current governor of Bali is I Wayan Koster, where "I" is a title indicating caste affiliation, "Wayan" indicates a first-born male, and "Koster" is a personal name.

[Creyeditor]

I guess Java is a better place to look for people with homonymic birth order names. OTOH, naming practices are very diverse nowadays. Still, some people in Javs have homonymic names and some people use the Sanskrit (eka, dwi, tri...) birth order names.

[Kuchigakatai]

"Muhammad" is still a runaway favourite given name for males in most of the Islamic world. I'm sure the percentage in some countries is pretty eye-watering.

In Bangladesh in particular Mohammad is so common they don't even bother writing it in full a lot of the time, indicating it simply as "Md" or even "M" at the beginning of the guy's name, even in legal documents.

Wikipedia, "Bengali name"

Muhammad (মোহাম্মদ), Mohammed, Mohamed, Mohammad, Mohammod, Muhammod is a common prefix used before the name of many Muslim males, and it is often not considered as the name used to refer to the person. In many cases, the "Muhammad" prefix is shortened to মোঃ ("Md.", or "MD."). Other common prefixes are not systematic. The prefix often serves as the first name and the given name appears as the middle name or last name.

[Emily]

that's common enough with certain names in other cultures too. one of my coworkers goes by what english speakers would consider her "middle" name", and her first name maria is abbreviated as "Ma" on the staff roster

[Linguoboy]

that's common enough with certain names in other cultures too. one of my coworkers goes by what english speakers would consider her "middle" name", and her first name maria is abbreviated as "Ma" on the staff roster

My Spanish sister-in-law jokes that "all Spanish women are named for Mary". She has four given names, the third of which is "Purificación", which commemorates a significant event in the life of both Mary and Jesus.

The late Catalan opera singer Montserrat Caballé is actually named twice for Mary: Her full name is María de Montserrat Bibiana Concepción Caballé i Folch, so she's named both for the Virgin of Montserrat as well as the Immaculate Conception.

[bradrn]

The late Catalan opera singer Montserrat Caballé is actually named twice for Mary: Her full name is María de Montserrat Bibiana Concepción Caballé i Folch, so she's named both for the Virgin of Montserrat as well as the Immaculate Conception.

Thrice, surely? In addition to those two, her name literally starts with María.

[Moose-tache]

Maria de Montserrat is the virgin of Montserrat.

On topic, Korean family names are famously unhelpful, so a lot of weight is put on the given names, which are much more unique. In English, the given names are often drawn from a small set, and the uniqueness of surnames is used to distinguish people ("John" is more common in the United States than "Smith," even after you consider that it generally only applies to half the population!). This means that Korean Americans, International Koreans, and various third-culture kids of Korean descent usually end up with very indistinct names. I once knew a woman named Grace Lee who joked that she was the most ungooglable woman on Earth.

Presumably, immigrants from English-speaking countries to Korea would have the opposite situation, with every individual being their own Hapax Legomenon.

[zompist]

Presumably, immigrants from English-speaking countries to Korea would have the opposite situation, with every individual being their own Hapax Legomenon.

This made me wonder if anyone has been named Hapax. Only once, I would assume.

I googled it and found it on a name site, with this fascinating analysis:

Meaning: Loving Change, Enthusiasm, Reliability
Gender: Girl Name
Origin: Unknown
hapax legomena is currently not in the top 100 on the Baby Names Popularity Charts
The Numerology Number of the name hapax legomena is 5.
Disclaimer: Nameslook provides information based on existing Vedic astrology and numerology principles.

...Girl name?

Kind of makes me think someone has found yet another use for ChatGPT.

[Moose-tache]

Yeah, those baby name sites are AI generated. You can type almost anything into google with "baby name" attached and it will point you to some confident bullshit.

Anyway, I came back because I remembered another Name Fact. The most common surname in Croatia is Horvat, which is just another form of the word "Croatian" in the Serbo-Croat language. So the next time you read a hacky sci-fi premise where a character named Norfmo is from the planet Norfmo, before you judge the author too harshly, consider that they might simply be from the Balkans.

[WeepingElf]

Yeah, those baby name sites are AI generated. You can type almost anything into google with "baby name" attached and it will point you to some confident bullshit.

Anyway, I came back because I remembered another Name Fact. The most common surname in Croatia is Horvat, which is just another form of the word "Croatian" in the Serbo-Croat language. So the next time you read a hacky sci-fi premise where a character named Norfmo is from the planet Norfmo, before you judge the author too harshly, consider that they might simply be from the Balkans.

There are also quite a few Germans with the surname Deutsch, though this is not one of the most common surnames - but nothing out of the ordinary, either.

[Linguoboy]

Maria de Montserrat is the virgin of Montserrat.

Some women are simply named "Montserrat" with the "Maria" being assumed, but Caballé was quite insistent that her first given name was "Maria" even if she didn't go by it.

Other Catalan Marian names you might not recognise as such include Meritxell, Núria, Dolors, Àngels , Remei, Neus, Mercè, Roser, Pilar, and Assumpta. (The corresponding Castilian versions are Meritxell, Nuria, Dolores, Ángeles, Remedios, Nieves, Mercedes, Rosario, Pilar, and Asunción). Other Spanish-language names stemming from Marian devotions include: Consuelo, Luz, Guadelupe, Macarena, Lourdes, Rocío, Begoña, and Arantzazu. Some of these are widespread and some are very regional. (Meritxell, for instance, is the patroness of Andorra and very rare outside of the Pyrenees; La Macarena is local to Seville and uncommon outside of Andalusia, etc.)

[Moose-tache]

Oh... So bradrn was right, it is three separate iterations of the name Maria?

[zompist]

Oh... So bradrn was right, it is three separate iterations of the name Maria?

No: María de Montserrat Bibiana Concepción Caballé i Folch.

"Maria of Montserrat" is like "Tokyo Rose", a way of specifying which person you're talking about.

[Znex]

Marie Antoinette's nine sisters were all also named Maria.

[Moose-tache]

Oh... So bradrn was right, it is three separate iterations of the name Maria?

No: María de Montserrat Bibiana Concepción Caballé i Folch.

"Maria of Montserrat" is like "Tokyo Rose", a way of specifying which person you're talking about.

That's what I thought. But when linguoboy said Montserrat could serve as its own name, and the person in question insisted on only Maria, it kind of sounds like they were both stand-alone names, each separately representing the virgin Mary. Hence, I asked him a clarifying question.