As this is somewhat non-central meta-material I didn't think it altogether worthy of inclusion in the thread!
Thank you!
Almeomusica
Re: Çişte
What an odd-looking ukulele. I’ve never seen one with the tuning pegs at the other end like that!sasasha wrote: ↑Mon Jan 01, 2024 6:17 am I'm posting a link to a blog-post which talks about çişte calluses and the instrument in general.
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(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)
Re: Almeomusica
Coming back to the ZBB after being busy wih other stuff - I really like what you're doing here! I especially like the diary parts.
Re: Almeomusica
Thank you so much, hwhatting!
I like the diary bit too, and was planning to get another entry done today, but I got distracted… (see next post!).Soa teclora
This is an idea for the design of the Verdurian musical keyboard (specifically of the teclora, or ‘clavier’), dressed up as another Žambey advert.
I am not married to this design; in fact I’m sure it will change significantly! However, it’s a useful starting point, and illustrates some key ideas in Verdurian music theory.
Like our keyboard, there are two rows of keys, arranged horizontally in front of the player; unlike ours, their ordering is not purely left-to-right (regardless of whether the next key is a black/upper-row or white/lower-row key), but proceeds left-to-right along the lower row first, then starts again at the left key of the higher row. The whole cell then repeats sequentially, such that the key right of Ažirei (the bottom right key in this diagram) will be the next Enäron (an octave above the bottom-left key), a jump of a perfect fifth. The upper row is literally higher than the lower one, like organ manuals, though I think a little closer, so there is not far for the fingers to jump from one row to another.
The keys are coloured; whilst this is not obligatory, some kind of red/blue colouring system is common across Eretald, where notes which are perceived to lead naturally ‘upwards’ (which we might describe as ‘major’) are coloured red, and those which are perceived to lead naturally downwards (which we might describe as ‘minor’) are coloured blue. The key note, known as Enäron, its natural complement the perfect fifth, known as Fidra, and the latter’s inversion, the perfect fourth, known as Ažirei, are here coloured green to represent their fundamentality and expected inclusion of at least two (if not all three) of them in the majority of Eretaldan scales.
This design provides well for playing scales in the home key, as the octave lies easily under one hand. To play in the right hand the scale ‘ecoafešne’, which we would recognise as a major scale, a player of this teclora would play the green and red notes in sequence, starting at Enäron, and using the fingering 1-2-3-4 (swap to top row, left-most key) 2-3-4 (swap to bottom row, next cell to the right, left-most key) 5. Chordal playing is well supported, as, again, the whole octave lies easily under one hand; Verdurian keyboard players will be particularly used to whacking down low fifths with their pinky and ring finger of their left hand.
How do you play in keys other than the one which this is optimised for? With some difficulty: a scale from, say, Osureon, is going to run into nasty fingering issues, or at the very least feel confusing because the keys are presented in a fairly strict hierarchy describing their relationship to the home key Enäron. Eretaldans will get round this in several ways. One, by refining the base design over time (I have many ideas for how it would develop). Two, by dropping the colours, as they are technically unnecessary and may impede a player’s processing ability for playing in distant keys. (I feel they’ll be retained in some contexts, as an aspect of traditional material culture that is a bit inconvenient for modernity, but tolerated for tradition’s sake.) Three… an idea I’m toying with, where a lever is used to shift the entire keyboard one string’s width over the string bed, to halve the number of unique fingering patterns that need to be learned (though adding significantly to the internal complexity of the instrument, as spare strings will be needed, probably on a different level to the others). Four – lots of practice! Eretaldan keyboard players will no doubt master scale-playing in two main patterns – those beginning on the Enäron key, and those beginning on the Išira key (the first of the higher row) – before moving on to mastering other keys.
All instruments have their challenges, and technical strengths. This keyboard is particularly good at drone music, accompanying Caďinorian chant and folk tunes, and playing excitable riffs in a small set of home keys. It is fully chromatic and is of course capable of playing in other keys, though not with enormous intuitive ease. It emphasises improvisatory skill in any of the many various scales and modes of that home note which have comprised Eretaldan musical interest for centuries, much as do instruments of the Indian subcontinent. However, Eretaldan music becomes increasingly harmony-obsessed into the modern era, and likely this traditional design may well be overtaken by a more ‘even’, less hierarchical design some time in the Almea+400 era.
Addendum: Žilir Žambey didn’t invent the instrument. I think it sprang up not that long before the Žambeys, during the craze for things Xurnese that began in the late 33rd century with Queen Elena’s mission to Xurno. The isometric design is inspired by the (much more complex, but reminiscent) Xurnese organ console layout. Žilir was just a pioneer of mass marketing and mass production; he liked to put his stamp on everything. Perhaps he innovated an aspect of this design, such as the key shapes.
I am not married to this design; in fact I’m sure it will change significantly! However, it’s a useful starting point, and illustrates some key ideas in Verdurian music theory.
Like our keyboard, there are two rows of keys, arranged horizontally in front of the player; unlike ours, their ordering is not purely left-to-right (regardless of whether the next key is a black/upper-row or white/lower-row key), but proceeds left-to-right along the lower row first, then starts again at the left key of the higher row. The whole cell then repeats sequentially, such that the key right of Ažirei (the bottom right key in this diagram) will be the next Enäron (an octave above the bottom-left key), a jump of a perfect fifth. The upper row is literally higher than the lower one, like organ manuals, though I think a little closer, so there is not far for the fingers to jump from one row to another.
The keys are coloured; whilst this is not obligatory, some kind of red/blue colouring system is common across Eretald, where notes which are perceived to lead naturally ‘upwards’ (which we might describe as ‘major’) are coloured red, and those which are perceived to lead naturally downwards (which we might describe as ‘minor’) are coloured blue. The key note, known as Enäron, its natural complement the perfect fifth, known as Fidra, and the latter’s inversion, the perfect fourth, known as Ažirei, are here coloured green to represent their fundamentality and expected inclusion of at least two (if not all three) of them in the majority of Eretaldan scales.
This design provides well for playing scales in the home key, as the octave lies easily under one hand. To play in the right hand the scale ‘ecoafešne’, which we would recognise as a major scale, a player of this teclora would play the green and red notes in sequence, starting at Enäron, and using the fingering 1-2-3-4 (swap to top row, left-most key) 2-3-4 (swap to bottom row, next cell to the right, left-most key) 5. Chordal playing is well supported, as, again, the whole octave lies easily under one hand; Verdurian keyboard players will be particularly used to whacking down low fifths with their pinky and ring finger of their left hand.
How do you play in keys other than the one which this is optimised for? With some difficulty: a scale from, say, Osureon, is going to run into nasty fingering issues, or at the very least feel confusing because the keys are presented in a fairly strict hierarchy describing their relationship to the home key Enäron. Eretaldans will get round this in several ways. One, by refining the base design over time (I have many ideas for how it would develop). Two, by dropping the colours, as they are technically unnecessary and may impede a player’s processing ability for playing in distant keys. (I feel they’ll be retained in some contexts, as an aspect of traditional material culture that is a bit inconvenient for modernity, but tolerated for tradition’s sake.) Three… an idea I’m toying with, where a lever is used to shift the entire keyboard one string’s width over the string bed, to halve the number of unique fingering patterns that need to be learned (though adding significantly to the internal complexity of the instrument, as spare strings will be needed, probably on a different level to the others). Four – lots of practice! Eretaldan keyboard players will no doubt master scale-playing in two main patterns – those beginning on the Enäron key, and those beginning on the Išira key (the first of the higher row) – before moving on to mastering other keys.
All instruments have their challenges, and technical strengths. This keyboard is particularly good at drone music, accompanying Caďinorian chant and folk tunes, and playing excitable riffs in a small set of home keys. It is fully chromatic and is of course capable of playing in other keys, though not with enormous intuitive ease. It emphasises improvisatory skill in any of the many various scales and modes of that home note which have comprised Eretaldan musical interest for centuries, much as do instruments of the Indian subcontinent. However, Eretaldan music becomes increasingly harmony-obsessed into the modern era, and likely this traditional design may well be overtaken by a more ‘even’, less hierarchical design some time in the Almea+400 era.
Addendum: Žilir Žambey didn’t invent the instrument. I think it sprang up not that long before the Žambeys, during the craze for things Xurnese that began in the late 33rd century with Queen Elena’s mission to Xurno. The isometric design is inspired by the (much more complex, but reminiscent) Xurnese organ console layout. Žilir was just a pioneer of mass marketing and mass production; he liked to put his stamp on everything. Perhaps he innovated an aspect of this design, such as the key shapes.
Re: Almeomusica
This makes a little more visual sense, I think. Both rows are now identical in design, just off-set. It also highlights the importance of the note Išira; I have used a lot of augmented 4ths in my Ismaîn music so far. (Stay tuned for, eventually, why.) There are 4 red notes, 4 blue notes, and 4 green notes. Red and blue are clearly treated as variants. This works extremely well with the way Eretaldan scales are formed. (Again, stay tuned… possibly for some time, as I have pages and pages of notes to write out!)
Neo-Munkhâshi chant
So... this was exploratory, and fun. As this text is not actually attested in-world in Munkhâshi, the only way I can really use it is if there is a group of Gelalhát purists who re-construct Munkhâshi and try to conduct 'authentic' ancient rituals. Or as the opening of a metal concert, or something...
Dhekhnam: Ktuti bikoshil
Music-wise, the chant mostly uses the whole tone scale. This has been associated with Munkhâsh/Dhekhnam since ancient times (Cuzeian music theorist Einatu mentions that ktuvoks apparently find it a most pleasing arrangement of notes because of its meandering, hypnotic, aimless qualities and says it is thought to resemble the whistling speech of ktuvoks). Later theorists note that its six notes are called after each of the Six Gods by the Demoshi.
It does depart from the whole tone scale, though, at times. The background is a variety of vocal effects, again seeking to be 'whistly' to some extent, though as this text is a supplication, the earthly humility of the worshippers must be retained. I feel that there is probably a ritual role for the one lucky worshipper who gets to sit there throughout just breathing heavily in and out to a voiceless lateral fricative. (This was challenging over several minutes; all the spittle produced, for want of a better word, makes you feel like you're at risk of drowning, and I think it's probably a holy endurance test for faithful to maintain this noise without swallowing throughout a ritual.) Perhaps they get to wear the finest, ktuvokiest garb, too.
In the 35th century, Poncör Žambey presents a compelling body of evidence that Munkhâshi ritual chanting underpinned Cadhinorian chant, and devoted a chapter of his History of Sound to it, which inspired not a few modern reconstruction attempts, one of which one might suppose this could resemble.
I should add that this was a quick draft/explore session, I didn't study the text much or overthink it; if you have any suggestions please do shoot!
Enjoy!
Dhekhnam: Ktuti bikoshil
Music-wise, the chant mostly uses the whole tone scale. This has been associated with Munkhâsh/Dhekhnam since ancient times (Cuzeian music theorist Einatu mentions that ktuvoks apparently find it a most pleasing arrangement of notes because of its meandering, hypnotic, aimless qualities and says it is thought to resemble the whistling speech of ktuvoks). Later theorists note that its six notes are called after each of the Six Gods by the Demoshi.
It does depart from the whole tone scale, though, at times. The background is a variety of vocal effects, again seeking to be 'whistly' to some extent, though as this text is a supplication, the earthly humility of the worshippers must be retained. I feel that there is probably a ritual role for the one lucky worshipper who gets to sit there throughout just breathing heavily in and out to a voiceless lateral fricative. (This was challenging over several minutes; all the spittle produced, for want of a better word, makes you feel like you're at risk of drowning, and I think it's probably a holy endurance test for faithful to maintain this noise without swallowing throughout a ritual.) Perhaps they get to wear the finest, ktuvokiest garb, too.
In the 35th century, Poncör Žambey presents a compelling body of evidence that Munkhâshi ritual chanting underpinned Cadhinorian chant, and devoted a chapter of his History of Sound to it, which inspired not a few modern reconstruction attempts, one of which one might suppose this could resemble.
I should add that this was a quick draft/explore session, I didn't study the text much or overthink it; if you have any suggestions please do shoot!
Enjoy!
Re: Almeomusica
Sounds great, though perhaps not completely the way I imagined it would.
Re: Almeomusica
Thanks! And do elaborate ‒ I don't repeat this every time I post something as it can get onerous, but I am not presenting anything here without the proviso that it is completely subject to revisal. That's, in fact, a major reason I'm posting it. If you let me know your ideas, I can incorporate them, and it will all make the project richer.
Re: Almeomusica
This might be weird, but when I read "Munkhâshi chant", I expected something somehow like throat singing.
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zompist
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Re: Almeomusica
The diagrams are really neat. (I'll listen to the chant later.) I do like the basic keyboard looking quite different from earthly ones. (Also, the texturing is great!)
Why the twisty shapes of the keys? It's visually interesting, but is there a reason in technique for it?
The construction might be tricky. It looks to me like the instrument makes would have these problems:
1. The narrow keys imply closely spaced strings in some areas but not others.
You could, if you wished, solve this one by offsetting one keyboard by one whole tone, e.g.
Then there are three strings for each vertical cell of this table. With your arrangement there are 2, 3, or 4.
2. The two keyboards mean that the strings don't get longer regularly, as strings a half-octave apart are juxtaposed. That in turn I think means either
2a. two backing frames rather than one, one for each keyboard
2b. the backing frame is highly complex in shape— not a smooth curve
2c. there are variable-length metal bits in between the strings and the backboard
All this on the assumption that strings need to be held in a lot of tension, much more than (say) a guitar. But maybe it's far easier than I assume.
Why the twisty shapes of the keys? It's visually interesting, but is there a reason in technique for it?
The construction might be tricky. It looks to me like the instrument makes would have these problems:
1. The narrow keys imply closely spaced strings in some areas but not others.
You could, if you wished, solve this one by offsetting one keyboard by one whole tone, e.g.
| (K N) | I | F | M S | K N |
| E | V C | B O | A | (E) |
2. The two keyboards mean that the strings don't get longer regularly, as strings a half-octave apart are juxtaposed. That in turn I think means either
2a. two backing frames rather than one, one for each keyboard
2b. the backing frame is highly complex in shape— not a smooth curve
2c. there are variable-length metal bits in between the strings and the backboard
All this on the assumption that strings need to be held in a lot of tension, much more than (say) a guitar. But maybe it's far easier than I assume.
Re: Almeomusica
Thanks, great thoughts. Some of which are churning already:zompist wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 3:58 pm [snip]
The construction might be tricky. It looks to me like the instrument makes would have these problems:
1. The narrow keys imply closely spaced strings in some areas but not others.
You could, if you wished, solve this one by offsetting one keyboard by one whole tone, e.g.
Then there are three strings for each vertical cell of this table. With your arrangement there are 2, 3, or 4.
(K N) I F M S K N E V C B O A (E)
2. The two keyboards mean that the strings don't get longer regularly, as strings a half-octave apart are juxtaposed. That in turn I think means either
2a. two backing frames rather than one, one for each keyboard
2b. the backing frame is highly complex in shape— not a smooth curve
2c. there are variable-length metal bits in between the strings and the backboard
All this on the assumption that strings need to be held in a lot of tension, much more than (say) a guitar. But maybe it's far easier than I assume.
2. I hadn't thought of 2c. I was leaning towards 2b ‒ or rather, each half-octave has its own backing frame. These can be connected in a super-structure... (In a sense that's a combination of solutions.)
While we're on backing frame ‒ and as I think we're possibly conflating two challenges here, namely two manuals at different heights reaching different distances, and non-consecutive strings juxtaposed ‒ one option to resolve the first challenge is a sort of oblique oval prism shape for the backing frame, with some some strings running to its upper edge and some to its lower edge.
I need to do some drawings and work out some concrete options, really!
It's true that keyboard instruments in general are fiendishly clever. The hammer mechanism of a modern grand piano is just genius, but it took a long time to get there. There's a lot of room for sort of ‘beautiful design mistakes’ along the way, or rather, a kind of wild west of experimentation with strange ideas in instrument building at the beginning of industrial modernity which irons itself out slowly as the nuances that made certain particular instruments successful get generalised. (I read the other day an interesting suggestion that Indian-subcontinent luthiers are still in that phase with the sarod: the instrument is by no means standardised and we're still getting ‘happy accidents’ from experimental luthiers refining the instrument to clearer and clearer expressions of its ‘essence’ over the generations.)
1. I imagine the strings are evenly spaced; the hammer/pick mechanism would have to compensate with some horizontal shifting at present. One thing I'm definitely going to try, though, is the green keys being 1.5 units wide (if, at the edge nearest the player, the blue keys are 1 and the red 2 units wide), maintaining the same average width for all keys.
I think the issue you're raising is partly coming through imagining just one course of strings on a single plane, which I wasn't imagining. Again, I think this will come out better in diagrams.
I do like your suggestion in some ways, and will probably mock up a drawing to ‘test it out’ (i.e. imagine playing on it).
Yes:Why the twisty shapes of the keys? It's visually interesting, but is there a reason in technique for it?
a) to fit more keys in with a decent playing surface width ‒ compensating length, red and blue counterparts each get a turn to have a good playing width, if that makes sense. It should be easy to hit the different playing points, similar to a pianist hitting white or black keys, which are different heights, lengths and widths. (The superobjectives here are to fit the octave under the hand, to reduce the overall width of the instrument, and to represent useful relationships between notes in the home key.) If all the keys were the same width and shape, either they'd all have to be wider, or the instrument itself would have to widen.
b) to suggest improvisational choices and build conscious and subconscious keyboard orientation and music theory awareness. (Imagine all the keys on your computer keyboard were both unlabelled, and the same size and shape. You might get the hang of it eventually, but there's a good reason it isn't made like that.) Red and blue (or the twisty ones, if the colours are lost) are often alternatives: scales rarely have both Vlerë and Caloton, or both Boďneay and Osureon, or both Mëranac and Eši, or both Řavcaëna and Nečeron. (The traditional Caďin scales never do.)
Thanks! I have been enjoying getting to know Procreate better through this. Thanks for all the v useful thoughts and I hope you like the chant!The diagrams are really neat. (I'll listen to the chant later.) I do like the basic keyboard looking quite different from earthly ones. (Also, the texturing is great!)
Last edited by sasasha on Tue Jan 16, 2024 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Almeomusica
Ah, I see!! If I could do throat singing, I would absolutely have put it on.
The idea really is that this is a group ritual, but only one person has to know the chant and solo it out. Everyone else present can join in ‒ they sing a drone, or a gentle ululation, or lhhhhh noises, or something ‒ they contribute to the sound however they want, just being sure not to overpower the chant. If they can do throat singing (and I bet they often can) then they would probably do that.
I might rebalance this so more of the background is audible: there is actually one voice trying to sing harmonics à la throat singers, one voice growling low notes, one voice doing an odd growling trumpet thing (it's a uvular trill inside a hum), and various other textures. (Try headphones.)
If by any chance you can throat sing, it would be amazing to incorporate that!! Or if you want to join the faithful of Gelalh and add your voice/sound in any way. Just send me a track and I'll mix it in.
mp3 is fine.
Last edited by sasasha on Tue Jan 16, 2024 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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zompist
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Re: Almeomusica
Things I never imagined anyone saying: "I used to be an Irreanist, but I converted to Gelalhát becuase the music was better."
Re: Almeomusica
Re: Almeomusica
I don’t think this is actually a problem in practice — e.g. people don’t seem to have problems constructing Jankó keyboards, and those work with standard Western pianos.zompist wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 3:58 pm 2. The two keyboards mean that the strings don't get longer regularly, as strings a half-octave apart are juxtaposed. That in turn I think means either
2a. two backing frames rather than one, one for each keyboard
2b. the backing frame is highly complex in shape— not a smooth curve
2c. there are variable-length metal bits in between the strings and the backboard
All this on the assumption that strings need to be held in a lot of tension, much more than (say) a guitar. But maybe it's far easier than I assume.
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Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices
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Re: Almeomusica
Ah, thank you so so much for linking this ‒ my brain was trying and trying to come up with something a bit like it; I wanted to add a third manual above (for reasons I cba to explain at this precise moment) but was getting stuck with where all the strings would go; of course ‒ an array with various touch points which trigger a key beneath them is the way to do it!bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 5:22 pmI don’t think this is actually a problem in practice — e.g. people don’t seem to have problems constructing Jankó keyboards, and those work with standard Western pianos.zompist wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 3:58 pm 2. The two keyboards mean that the strings don't get longer regularly, as strings a half-octave apart are juxtaposed. That in turn I think means either
2a. two backing frames rather than one, one for each keyboard
2b. the backing frame is highly complex in shape— not a smooth curve
2c. there are variable-length metal bits in between the strings and the backboard
All this on the assumption that strings need to be held in a lot of tension, much more than (say) a guitar. But maybe it's far easier than I assume.
Will give some thought as to whether the teclora might develop in this direction. One quite neat thing about the initial design being arguably a bit more unstable than ours could be that it is easier for reformers to make big revisions. Where here a design with this feature may not catch on as it's seen as unneccessarily complex, on Almea it might actually simplify one or two things (i.e. in internal construction/mechanism) to be more tempting to adopt. Then again, they may well run into the same issue: people know the old keyboard, and if you've spent thousands of hours mastering a thing you're not likely to champion its obsolescence.
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zompist
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Re: Almeomusica
That is really neat— I'd never heard of those before. I like the idea that a melody (or chord) never requires different fingering to transpose. It's also interesting that there are multiple keys for the same string!bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 5:22 pm I don’t think this is actually a problem in practice — e.g. people don’t seem to have problems constructing Jankó keyboards, and those work with standard Western pianos.
Still, it looks like the first physical ones were made in 1891. It's not easy to find pictures of the mechanism, but it looks like the strings are completely even. Would a pianomaker of 1591 be able to make one?
One thing I like about sasasha's design is that it wouldn't disfavor smaller hands. It's also interesting that, if I'm not mistaken, a fifth is always just above the tonic. Unless he takes my suggestion to offset the keyboards! In fact that might make a fifth easier to play (presumably with thumb and index finger).
Re: Almeomusica
I have absolutely no clue, sorry!
The Jankó keyboard is actually said to be good for smaller hands — the keys are smaller and closer together, so your hand spans a wider note range than on conventional keyboards.One thing I like about sasasha's design is that it wouldn't disfavor smaller hands.
Incidentally, this is also the case with the Wicki layout, another isomorphic keyboard used for concertinas.It's also interesting that, if I'm not mistaken, a fifth is always just above the tonic.
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Re: Neo-Munkhâshi chant
This sounds fantastic!sasasha wrote: ↑Tue Jan 16, 2024 10:10 am So... this was exploratory, and fun. As this text is not actually attested in-world in Munkhâshi, the only way I can really use it is if there is a group of Gelalhát purists who re-construct Munkhâshi and try to conduct 'authentic' ancient rituals. Or as the opening of a metal concert, or something...
Dhekhnam: Ktuti bikoshil
Music-wise, the chant mostly uses the whole tone scale. This has been associated with Munkhâsh/Dhekhnam since ancient times (Cuzeian music theorist Einatu mentions that ktuvoks apparently find it a most pleasing arrangement of notes because of its meandering, hypnotic, aimless qualities and says it is thought to resemble the whistling speech of ktuvoks). Later theorists note that its six notes are called after each of the Six Gods by the Demoshi.
It does depart from the whole tone scale, though, at times. The background is a variety of vocal effects, again seeking to be 'whistly' to some extent, though as this text is a supplication, the earthly humility of the worshippers must be retained. I feel that there is probably a ritual role for the one lucky worshipper who gets to sit there throughout just breathing heavily in and out to a voiceless lateral fricative. (This was challenging over several minutes; all the spittle produced, for want of a better word, makes you feel like you're at risk of drowning, and I think it's probably a holy endurance test for faithful to maintain this noise without swallowing throughout a ritual.) Perhaps they get to wear the finest, ktuvokiest garb, too.
In the 35th century, Poncör Žambey presents a compelling body of evidence that Munkhâshi ritual chanting underpinned Cadhinorian chant, and devoted a chapter of his History of Sound to it, which inspired not a few modern reconstruction attempts, one of which one might suppose this could resemble.
I should add that this was a quick draft/explore session, I didn't study the text much or overthink it; if you have any suggestions please do shoot!
Enjoy!