Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

[Travis B.]

Umm wut? Ejective sonorants? (I hope you meant glottalized sonorants.)

[foxcatdog]

Umm wut? Ejective sonorants? (I hope you meant glottalized sonorants.)

the glottalisation wasn't specified by the source (wikipedia)

[bradrn]

Umm wut? Ejective sonorants? (I hope you meant glottalized sonorants.)

the glottalisation wasn't specified by the source (wikipedia)

Hmm… is this a real language, then? Which is it?

[foxcatdog]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huamelultec_language

[foxcatdog]

Consonants
*m *n *ɲ
*mˀ *nˀ *ɲˀ
*p *t *c *k
*pʰ *tʰ *cʰ *kʰ
*p’ *t’ *c’ *k’
*ts *tʃ *tʂ
*ts *tʃ *tʂ
*ts’ *tʃ’ *tʂ’
*s *ʃ *ʂ *h
*s’ *ʃ’ *ʂ’
*w *ɾ *j
*wˀ *ɾˀ *jˀ

Short Vowels
*i *ɨ *u
*e *o
*a

Long Vowels
*i: *ɨ: *u:
*e: *o:
*a:

Devoiced Vowels
*i̊ *ɨ̊ *ů
*e̊ *o̊
*å

4 tones but falling and rising can only occur on long vowels with high and low occuring on any voiced vowel.

[Nortaneous]

Huamelultec

/p b t d tʲ k g ʔ/
/kʼ/
/ts tʃ/
/tsʼ tʃʼ/
/f s ɬ ʃ x/
/fˀ sˀ ɬˀ xˀ/
/m n nʲ/
/ˀm ˀn ˀnʲ/
/w l lʲ j/
/ˀw ˀl/
/ɾ r/
/a e o i u/

/nʲulʲi el benado xojpa nʲulʲepa peɾo laˀwa xolafˀa || laˀwamulʲi xojpa tʃasa tʲeʔepa || xojpa tʲepa laˀwamulʲi ˀwakaˀj ʔenapajnʲeˀwaˀmiɬˀtʃenʲaˀwaˀmane || oɬkoduj sa oɬkoduj lapempe || linʲaˀwamilʲaʔ manne xojpa tʲanmajnʲapa/

There may be errors; O'Connor's grammar doesn't use IPA (or list /tʲ/) and the orthography doesn't distinguish /x h/. A vowel length contrast is written but claimed to be noncontrastive. Sequences of fricative and glottal stop contrast with glottalized fricatives.

According to Maddieson, palatalized alveolars are mostly predictable from environment, appearing adjacent to high vowels and before /j/.

[Nortaneous]

/p b t d k g/ <p b t d k g>
/ts tʃ/ <j č>
/f s ɬ ʃ x/ <f s ś š h>
/m n nʲ/ <m n ni>
/w l lʲ j/ <(o)u l li (e)i>
/ɾ r/ <r rr>
/a e o i u/ <a e o ē/ei ou> (<ei> after a palatal)
/Vʔ VCˀ/ <VV>, /#ʔV/ <aV>

/nʲulʲi el benado xojpa nʲulʲepa peɾo laˀwa xolafˀa || laˀwamulʲi xojpa tʃasa tʲeʔepa || xojpa tʲepa laˀwamulʲi ˀwakaˀj ʔenapajnʲeˀwaˀmiɬˀtʃenʲaˀwaˀmane || oɬkoduj sa oɬkoduj lapempe || linʲaˀwamilʲaʔ manne xojpa tʲanmajnʲapa/

Nioulei el benado hoeipa niouliepa pero laaua holaafa. Laauamoulei hoeipa časa tieeëpa. Hoeipa tiepa laauamoulei ouakaaei eenapaeinieeuaamiśčeniaaouaamane. Ośkodoui sa ośkodoui lapempe. Liniaaouamēliaa manne hoeipa tianmaeiniapa.

[Karch]

/p b t d tʲ k g ʔ/ <p b t d th k g '>
/kʼ/ <gk>
/ts tʃ/ <ẑ ĵ>
/tsʼ tʃʼ/ <ŝ ĉ>
/f s ɬ ʃ x/ <v z x j h>
/fˀ sˀ ɬˀ xˀ/ <f s c q>
/m n nʲ/ <m n nh>
/ˀm ˀn ˀnʲ/ <mp nt nth>
/w l lʲ j/ <w l lh y>
/ˀw ˀl/ <wf lx>
/ɾ r/ <r rr>
/a e o i u/ <a e o i u>

/nʲulʲi el benado xojpa nʲulʲepa peɾo laˀwa xolafˀa || laˀwamulʲi xojpa tʃasa tʲeʔepa || xojpa tʲepa laˀwamulʲi ˀwakaˀj ʔenapajnʲeˀwaˀmiɬˀtʃenʲaˀwaˀmane || oɬkoduj sa oɬkoduj lapempe || linʲaˀwamilʲaʔ manne xojpa tʲanmajnʲapa/
Nhulhi el benado hoypa nhulhepa pero lawfa holafa. Lawfamulhi hoypa ĵaza the'epa. Hoypa thepa lawfamulhi wfakayc 'enapaynhewfampicĵenhawfampane. Oxkoduy za oxkoduy lapem-pe. Linhawfamilha' manne hoypa thanmaynhapa.

[Travis B.]

Huamelultec

/p b t d tʲ k g ʔ/ <p b t d ty k g '>
/kʼ/ <k'>
/ts tʃ/ <z c>
/tsʼ tʃʼ/ <z' c'>
/f s ɬ ʃ x/ <f s lh x h>
/fˀ sˀ ɬˀ xˀ/ <f' s' lh' h'>
/m n nʲ/ <m n ny>
/ˀm ˀn ˀnʲ/ <'m 'n 'ny>
/w l lʲ j/ <w l ly j>
/ˀw ˀl ˀj/ <'w 'l 'j>
/ɾ r/ <r rr>
/a e o i u/ <a e o i u>

Omit the <y> adjacent to high vowels or before /j/.

Sequences of fricatives and glottal stops are separated with <->.

/nʲulʲi el benado xojpa nʲulʲepa peɾo laˀwa xolafˀa || laˀwamulʲi xojpa tʃasa tʲeʔepa || xojpa tʲepa laˀwamulʲi ˀwakaˀj ʔenapajnʲeˀwaˀmiɬˀtʃenʲaˀwaˀmane || oɬkoduj sa oɬkoduj lapempe || linʲaˀwamilʲaʔ manne xojpa tʲanmajnʲapa/

Nuli el benado hojpa nulepa pero la'wa holaf'a. La'wamuli hojpa casa tye'epa. Hojpa tyepa la'wamuli 'waka'j 'enapajne'wa'milhc'enya'wa'mane. Olhkoduj sa olhkoduj lapempe. Lina'wamila' manne hojpa tyanmajnapa.

[Nortaneous]

Huamelultec

/p b t d tʲ k g ʔ/ <p b t d ć k g h~V́>
/kʼ/ <kh>
/ts tʃ/ <c č>
/tsʼ tʃʼ/ <z ž>
/f s ɬ ʃ x/ <f s š ś ch>
/fˀ sˀ ɬˀ xˀ/ <fh sh šh śh chh>
/m n nʲ/ <m n ń>
/ˀm ˀn ˀnʲ/ <hm hn hń>
/w l lʲ j/ <w ł l j>
/ˀw ˀl/ <hw hl>
/ɾ r/ <r rr>
/a e o i u/ <a e o i u>

ć ~ ciV

/nʲulʲi el benado xojpa nʲulʲepa peɾo laˀwa xolafˀa || laˀwamulʲi xojpa tʃasa tʲeʔepa || xojpa tʲepa laˀwamulʲi ˀwakaˀj ʔenapajnʲeˀwaˀmiɬˀtʃenʲaˀwaˀmane || oɬkoduj sa oɬkoduj lapempe || linʲaˀwamilʲaʔ manne xojpa tʲanmajnʲapa/

Niuli eł benado chojpa niulepa pero łáwa chołáfa. Łáwamuli chojpa časa ciehepa. Chojpa ciepa łáwamuli hwakáj henapajniéwámíščeniáwámane. Oškoduj sa oškoduj łapempe. Łiniáwamilá manne chojpa cianmajniapa.

[Darren]

Niuli eł benado chojpa niulepa pero łáwa chołáfa. Łáwamuli chojpa časa ciehepa. Chojpa ciepa łáwamuli hwakáj henapajniéwámíščeniáwámane. Oškoduj sa oškoduj łapempe. Łiniáwamilá manne chojpa cianmajniapa.

Huamelultec's IRL orthography if the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth's colonisation of Trinidad and Tobago went somewhat better

[Nortaneous]

Moloko

/p b ⁿb ɓ t d ⁿd ɗ ts dz ⁿdz k g ⁿg kʷ gʷ ⁿgʷ/
/f v s z ɬ ɮ x xʷ/
/m n/
/l j w r (ѵ)/
/a/
/V́ V̀/
/ᵉ ᵒ/ (word-level prosodies)

[tʃ dʒ ndʒ ʃ ʒ]
[ɛ œ ɔ ə ø ɪ ʊ i u]

n > ŋ / _#

a ə > ɔ ʊ in labialized words
a ə > ɛ ɪ in palatalized words
a ə > œ ø adjacent to labiovelars in palatalized words or adjacent to /j/
ə > i adjacent to /j/
ə > u adjacent to /w/


/tstsⁿghᵉ na | asa tágalaj dzaⁿga ana andaɓᵉ aⁿgʷa | nafta wjanᵉ amⁿdavaᵉ na | hrⁿblamᵒ ágakʷ srja na | káágaᵉ na | mamajᵉ || saᵉ mzaᵉ amdaɗaᵉ mzaᵉ ahaᵉ na | tstsⁿgahaᵉ na | saᵉ ⁿgʷamna || ⁿgʷamna na | alaᵉ àga k wjanᵉ aka na | ⁿdahan na ágas na tta/
[tʃɪtʃɪŋgɛhɛ na | asa tágalaj dzaŋga ana ɛndɛɓaŋgʷɔ | nafta wijɛŋ amɪndɛvɛ na | hʊrmbʊlɔm ágɔkʷ sərija na | kɛ́ɛ́gɛ na | mɛmɛj || ʃɛ mɪʒɛ amɪdɛɗɛ mɪʒɛ ɛhɛ na tʃɪtʃɪŋgɛhɛ na | ʃe ŋgʷɔmna || ŋgʷɔmna na | ɛlɛ àga kə wijɛŋ aka na | ndahan na ágas na təta]

[bradrn]

Ooh yes, Moloko is a fun one. Personally, I think it’s most sane to do a surface-level romanisation for the vowels:

/p b ⁿb ɓ t d ⁿd ɗ ts dz ⁿdz k g ⁿg kʷ gʷ ⁿgʷ/ ⟨p b mb ɓ t d nd ɗ c j ndz k g ng kw gw ngw⟩
[tʃ dʒ ndʒ ʃ ʒ] ⟨c j nj s z⟩
/f v s z ɬ ɮ x xʷ/ ⟨f v s z lh jh x xw⟩
/m n/ ⟨m n⟩
[ŋ] ⟨n⟩
/l j w r (ѵ)/ ⟨l y w r (vb)⟩

[a ə ɛ ɪ ɔ ʊ œ ø i u] ⟨a ạ e ẹ o ọ ø ø̣ i u⟩
/V́ V̀ V/ ⟨V́ V̀ V⟩

[tʃɪtʃɪŋgɛhɛ na | asa tágalaj dzaŋga ana ɛndɛɓaŋgʷɔ | nafta wijɛŋ amɪndɛvɛ na | hʊrmbʊlɔm ágɔkʷ sərija na | kɛ́ɛ́gɛ na | mɛmɛj || ʃɛ mɪʒɛ amɪdɛɗɛ mɪʒɛ ɛhɛ na tʃɪtʃɪŋgɛhɛ na | ʃe ŋgʷɔmna || ŋgʷɔmna na | ɛlɛ àga kə wijɛŋ aka na | ndahan na ágas na təta]

Cẹcẹngehe na, asa tágalay janga ana endeɓangwo, nafta wiyen amẹndeve na, họrmbọlom ágokw sạriya na, kéége na, memey. Se mize amẹdeɗe mẹze ehe na cẹcẹngehe na, se ngwomna. Ngwomna na, ele àga kạ wiyen aka na, ndahan na ágas na tạta.

[Nortaneous]

swamp

/p b ⁿb ɓ t d ⁿd ɗ ts dz ⁿdz k g ⁿg kʷ gʷ ⁿgʷ/ <p b bb pp t d dd tt c z zz k g gg ku gu ggu>
[tʃ dʒ ndʒ ʃ ʒ] <ch z zz sh ssh>
/f v s z ɬ ɮ x xʷ/ <f ff s ss hl ll h hu>
/m n/ <m n>
[ŋ] <n>
/l j w r (ѵ)/ <l i u r br>

[a ə ɛ ɪ ɔ ʊ œ ø i u] <a v x e q o oi ui i u>
/V́ V̀ V/ <Vz Vj V>

[tʃɪtʃɪŋgɛhɛ na | asa tágalaj dzaŋga ana ɛndɛɓaŋgʷɔ | nafta wijɛŋ amɪndɛvɛ na | hʊrmbʊlɔm ágɔkʷ sərija na | kɛ́ɛ́gɛ na | mɛmɛj || ʃɛ mɪʒɛ amɪdɛɗɛ mɪʒɛ ɛhɛ na tʃɪtʃɪŋgɛhɛ na | ʃɛ ŋgʷɔmna || ŋgʷɔmna na | ɛlɛ àga kə wijɛŋ aka na | ndahan na ágas na təta]
Checheggxhx na, asa tazgalay zagga ana xddxppagguq, nafta wixn ameddxvx na, horbbolqm azgquk svria na, kxxzgx na, mxmxi. Shx messhx amedxttx messhx xhx na checheggxhx na, shx gguqmna. Gguqmna na, xlx ajga kv wixn aka na, ddahan na azgas na tvta.

or

/p b ⁿb ɓ t d ⁿd ɗ ts dz ⁿdz k g ⁿg kʷ gʷ ⁿgʷ/ <p/p̊ b ƀ t/ṭ d/ḍ nd/nḍ đ c j nj k/q g/ɣ ng/nɣ ku/qu gu/ɣu ngu/nɣu>
[tʃ dʒ ndʒ ʃ ʒ] <č ǰ nž š ž>
/f v s z ɬ ɮ x xʷ/ <f v s/ṣ z/ẓ ł ⱡ h/ç hᵒ/çᵒ>
/m n/ <m/m̊ n/ṇ>
/l j w r (ѵ)/ <l/ḷ i u r/ṛ (vr)>
/a/ <ʔ/3/0>
/V́ V̀/ unwritten
/ᵉ ᵒ/ unwritten

/tstsⁿghᵉ na | asa tágalaj dzaⁿga ana andaɓᵉ aⁿgʷa | nafta wjanᵉ amⁿdavaᵉ na | hrⁿblamᵒ ágakʷ srja na | káágaᵉ na | mamajᵉ || saᵉ mzaᵉ amdaɗaᵉ mzaᵉ ahaᵉ na | tstsⁿgahaᵉ na | saᵉ ⁿgʷamna || ⁿgʷamna na | alaᵉ àga k wjanᵉ aka na | ⁿdahan na ágas na tta/
Ččngç ṇ, 3ṣ ṭγḷi ẓnɣ 3ṇ ʔndƀ ʔnɣu, nfṭʔ uin ʔmndvʔ ṇ, hṛm̊bḷm̊ ʔɣq sriʔ ṇ, kʔgʔ n, mmi. Š mžʔ ʔmdđʔ mžʔ 3ç ṇ, ččngç ṇ, š nɣumnʔ. Nɣumṇʔ ṇ, 3l 3g q uin 3q ṇ, ndhn n ʔɣs n ttʔ.

[ophois]

A perfectly sane orthography for a perfectly sane language

/p b ⁿb ɓ t d ⁿd ɗ ts dz ⁿdz k g ⁿg kʷ gʷ ⁿgʷ/ <p b ƀ ƃ t d đ ƌ c j ɉ k g ǥ q ɋ ꝗ>
/f v s z ɬ ɮ x xʷ/ <f v s z ç x h w>
/m n/ <m n>
/l j w r (ѵ)/ <l i u r (ỽ)>
/a/ <a>
/V́ V̀/ <æ œ>
/ᵉ ᵒ/ (word-level prosodies) <-e -o>

[tʃ dʒ ndʒ ʃ ʒ] <c j ɉ s z>
[ɛ œ ɔ ə ø ɪ ʊ i u] <a a a - - - - - ->

(I'm assuming the /h/ in the sample is /x/.)

/tstsⁿghᵉ na | asa tágalaj dzaⁿga ana andaɓᵉ aⁿgʷa | nafta wjanᵉ amⁿdavaᵉ na | hrⁿblamᵒ ágakʷ srja na | káágaᵉ na | mamajᵉ || saᵉ mzaᵉ amdaɗaᵉ mzaᵉ ahaᵉ na | tstsⁿgahaᵉ na | saᵉ ⁿgʷamna || ⁿgʷamna na | alaᵉ àga k wjanᵉ aka na | ⁿdahan na ágas na tta/
<Ccǥhe na, asa tægalai jaǥa ana andaƃe aꝗa, nafta uiane amđavae na, hrƀlamo ægaq sria na, kæægae na, mamaye. Sae mzae amdaƌe mzae ahae na, ccǥahae na, sae ꝗamna. Ꝗamna na, alae œga k uiane aka na, đahan na ægas na tta.>

[Darren]

/p b ⁿb ɓ t d ⁿd ɗ ts dz ⁿdz k g ⁿg kʷ gʷ ⁿgʷ/ <p b mb~emb bou t d nd~end dou c~ç g~j ng~nj~eng~enj c~qu g~gu ng~ngu~eng~engu cou gou ngou~engou>
/f v s z ɬ ɮ x xʷ/ <f v s~ss~ch z~s lê lu h~qu hou~x>
/m n/ <m n>
/l j w r (ѵ)/ <l y~ï ou r û>
/a/ <a>
epenthetic schwa <é>
/V́ V̀/ <o i>
/ᵉ ᵒ/ (word-level prosodies) <-e -è>
/aᵉ/ <ai>


Cécénguéhe na asa togalaï janga ana andaboue angoua, nafta ouéyane améndavai na, hérémbélamè ogacou séréya na, coogai na, mamaïe. Chai mésai amédadouai mésai aquai na, cécéngaquai na, chai engouamna. Engouamna na, alai iga qué ouéyane aca na, endaquan na ogas na téta.

[Travis B.]

/p b ⁿb ɓ t d ⁿd ɗ ts dz ⁿdz k g ⁿg kʷ gʷ ⁿgʷ/ <p b mb~emb bou t d nd~end dou c~ç g~j ng~nj~eng~enj c~qu g~gu ng~ngu~eng~engu cou gou ngou~engou>
/f v s z ɬ ɮ x xʷ/ <f v s~ss~ch z~s lê lu h~qu hou~x>
/m n/ <m n>
/l j w r (ѵ)/ <l y~ï ou r û>
/a/ <a>
epenthetic schwa <é>
/V́ V̀/ <o i>
/ᵉ ᵒ/ (word-level prosodies) <-e -è>
/aᵉ/ <ai>


Cécénguéhe na asa togalaï janga ana andaboue angoua, nafta ouéyane améndavai na, hérémbélamè ogacou séréya na, coogai na, mamaïe. Chai mésai amédadouai mésai aquai na, cécéngaquai na, chai engouamna. Engouamna na, alai iga qué ouéyane aca na, endaquan na ogas na téta.

This is a special sort of insanity distinct from the usual Nort kind. It looks like someone with no actual knowledge of French tried to make a French-inspired orthography of a very un-Frenchy language.

[Darren]

This is a special sort of insanity distinct from the usual Nort kind.

Thank you, Travis. This is the most heartwarming complement I have ever received.

[Karch]

/p b ⁿb ɓ t d ⁿd ɗ ts dz ⁿdz k g ⁿg kʷ gʷ ⁿgʷ/ <p b mb bh t d nd dh ts dz ndz k g ng kw gw ngw>
/f v s z ɬ ɮ x xʷ/ <f v s z lh dl x xw>
/m n/ <m n>
/l j w r (ѵ)/ <l y w r vh>
/a/ <a>
/V́ V̀/ <á à>

[tʃ dʒ ndʒ ʃ ʒ ŋ#] <ch j nj sh zh ng>
[ɛ œ ɔ ə ø ɪ ʊ i u] <e o o ë u i u i u>
[tʃɪtʃɪŋgɛhɛ na | asa tágalaj dzaŋga ana ɛndɛɓaŋgʷɔ | nafta wijɛŋ amɪndɛvɛ na | hʊrmbʊlɔm ágɔkʷ sərija na | kɛ́ɛ́gɛ na | mɛmɛj || ʃɛ mɪʒɛ amɪdɛɗɛ mɪʒɛ ɛhɛ na tʃɪtʃɪŋgɛhɛ na | ʃe ŋgʷɔmna || ŋgʷɔmna na | ɛlɛ àga kə wijɛŋ aka na | ndahan na ágas na təta]
Chichingehe na, asa tágalay dzanga ana endebhangwo, nafta wiyeng amindeve na, hurmbulom ágokw sëriya na, kéége na, memey. She mizhe amidedhe mizhe ehe na chichingehe na, she ngwomna, ngwomna na, ele àga kë wiyeng aka na, ndahan na ágas na tëta.

[Nortaneous]

Moloko

/p b ⁿb ɓ t d ⁿd ɗ ts dz ⁿdz k g ⁿg kʷ gʷ ⁿgʷ/ <p b mb bh t d nd dh c z nz k g ng ku gu ngu>
/f v s z ɬ ɮ x xʷ/ <f v s ſ ç x h hu>
/m n/ <m n>
/l j w r (ѵ)/ <l y w r (vb)>
/a/ <a>
/V́ V̀/ <e o>
/ᵉ ᵒ/ <i u> (immediately after the last vowel)

[ə ij aj] <y ÿ æ> (<i> can't follow <æ> except in monosyllables)
[tʃɪ dʒɪ ndʒɪ ʃɪ ʒɪ] <ci zi nzi si ſi>

/tstsⁿghᵉ na | asa tágalaj dzaⁿga ana andaɓᵉ aⁿgʷa | nafta wjanᵉ amⁿdavaᵉ na | hrⁿblamᵒ ágakʷ srja na | káágaᵉ na | mamajᵉ || saᵉ mzaᵉ amdaɗaᵉ mzaᵉ ahaᵉ na | tstsⁿgahaᵉ na | saᵉ ⁿgʷamna || ⁿgʷamna na | alaᵉ àga k wjanᵉ aka na | ⁿdahan na ágas na tta/
Cicingyhi na, asa tegalæ zanga ana andaibh-angua, nafta wÿain amyndavai na, hyrmbylaum egaku syrÿa na, keegai na, maimæ. Sai myſai amydadhai myſai ahai na, cycyngahai na, sai nguamna. Nguamna na, alai oga ky wÿain aka na, ndahan na egas na tyta.