The "How Do You Pronounce X" Thread

[Travis B.]

Like Linguoboy said, depends on the word. Maryland, England, Newfoundland have something like [ɫə͂ʔd̚]; Queensland, highland have something intermediary like [ɫɛ̃ʔd̚]; Swaziland and Zululand have [ɫænd̚].

I think my distribution may be like Nortaneous': default /lənd/ (which will often be realised [ɫən ~ ɫɪn]) but Maryland is always [ɫɪn] because I'm subconsciously imitating my father's pronunciation (as with Baltimore and other local place names). Queensland and highland (and Zealand) group with established European names for me whereas I reserve /lænd/ for newer polities (Puntland), corporate names (like theme parks and retailers, e.g. Disneyland, Timberland), and metaphorical uses (e.g. limboland, Jesusland, woo-woo-land).

I have a similar distribution, except that I might have /lənd/ instead in Puntland (both sound okay for it).

[Linguoboy]

There's a moving wall here for sure; at some point in the past (ten years ago? 20?), Queensland would have still had /æ/.

[Space60]

Does anyone have an /l/ sound in "both" or "only" (before the /n/)? I don't have such myself but I've heard it. I think my brother has "olnly" for "only".

Common enough that someone a generation up from me once told me she was made fun of for *not* having l-insertion in "both". You can check Twitter for misspellings - "bolth" got a lot of results when I tried it.

The person in question did have long-distance assimilation of /əw/ to [o] in "social" -- where [o] is the expected realization of /əw/ immediately preceding /l/ -- and I'm not sure about "only". Another good test case would be "provolone".
[/quote]

That is interesting. I had a chorus teacher in High School who pronounced "both" as "bolth" (he was from California) and the kids in the class would frequently mock his pronunciation.

[Space60]

I have heard of folk with /l/ myself, in the context of folk music (IIRC one of folk as in folk music and one of folk in other contexts often has /l/, but I cannot recall at the moment which is which).

I have /l/ in folk music but not in other instances of folk. This is lexical for me: I don't have intrusive /l/ in other circumstances (unless you count words like almond and falcon which I have literally never heard without /l/).

How do you pronounce -land when it's a suffix, or the second part of a placename? [lənd]? [lænd]? Something else?

Like Linguoboy said, depends on the word. Maryland, England, Newfoundland have something like [ɫə͂ʔd̚]; Queensland, highland have something intermediary like [ɫɛ̃ʔd̚]; Swaziland and Zululand have [ɫænd̚].

Pronunciation of -land

/l@nd/ or /l1nd/

"Iceland"

"Greenland"

"Maryland"

"England"

"Scotland"

"Island"

/l{nd/

Disneyland (name of a theme park)

Partyland (name of a local party supplies store)

[Nortaneous]

/ə/: Queensland, highland, Zealand, Puntland, Timberland
/æ/: Swaziland, Zululand, Disneyland, Jesusland, Partyland

My guess is that -land is unstressed unless it follows a syllable with secondary stress, except it's stressed in semantically transparent compounds.

[Imralu]

I'm from Queensland and I say it with æ, weirdly enough.

[Linguoboy]

I'm from Queensland and I say it with æ, weirdly enough.

What else do you have in common with the Kransky Sisters?

[Travis B.]

Another thing I wonder as to how common it really is in English is assimilation of /t d/ + plosive clusters into geminates which take the POA and affrication, if any, of the second consonant (which are preglottalized and preceded by short vowels if the first consonant is /t/, and non-preglottalized and preceded by long vowel if the first consonant is /d/). For instance, vodka is [ˈvaːkːə(ː)], hatpin is [ˈhɛʔpːɘ̃(ː)n], and Atkins is [ˈɛʔkːɘ̃ːnts]. Also, for me at least, it seems that the geminates as a whole are voiceless, even if the individual consonants were both lenis (this is true for all obstruent clusters for me). I have not seen this discussed much in the context of discussion of English dialect features, but it seems so normal to me, like it is not particular to the English around here, that it might just be one of those things that are not discussed because they are a given.

I also have more extensive assimilation of /d/ + sonorant clusters into geminates beyond assimilation with plosives; e.g. Adler is [ˈɛːʟ̞ːʁ̩(ː)], radio is [ˈʁʷeːjːo(ː)], and couldn't is [ˈkʰʊːnː(ʔ)]. These I get the impression are more dialectal or even idiolectal than the above, but I do wonder if anyone else also knows of anyone else having these.

There are also some other isolated assimilations into geminates that I am familiar with, e.g suggest is [sɘtˈtʃɜs]~[sɘtˈtʃɜsʲtʲ] and problem is [pʰʁ̥ɑːmː].

[Zaarin]

I don't have such assimilation beyond normal coda coronal debuccalization.

vodka [ˈvɑʔd̚kə]
hatpin [ˈhæʔpʰɪn]
Atkins [ˈæʔkʰɪnz]
Adler [ˈæʔd̚ɫɹ̩ˁ]
radio [ˈɹ̠ˁʷɛɪ̯ɾjəʊ̯~ˈɹ̠ˁʷɛɪ̯ˌdiəʊ̯]
couldn't [ˈkʰʊʔd̚n̩ʔ]

You'll note that _d$ and _t$ remain slightly distinct for me.

[Travis B.]

I don't have such assimilation beyond normal coda coronal debuccalization.

vodka [ˈvɑʔd̚kə]
hatpin [ˈhæʔpʰɪn]
Atkins [ˈæʔkʰɪnz]
Adler [ˈæʔd̚ɫɹ̩ˁ]
radio [ˈɹ̠ˁʷɛɪ̯ɾjəʊ̯~ˈɹ̠ˁʷɛɪ̯ˌdiəʊ̯]
couldn't [ˈkʰʊʔd̚n̩ʔ]

You'll note that _d$ and _t$ remain slightly distinct for me.

You preglottalize coda /d/ in addition to the normal preglottalization (or overt glottalization) of coda /t/?

As for /t d/ staying distinct, part of the reason they only remain distinct in terms of (pre)glottalization and preceding vowel length here finally (unless both preceded and followed by sonorants across word boundaries) and before obstruents is that plosives are only really distinguished voice-wise in the dialect here when they are between sonorants (and even then /dʒ/ is practically always voiceless no matter what position it is in).

[Zaarin]

You preglottalize coda /d/ in addition to the normal preglottalization (or overt glottalization) of coda /t/?

Acoustically they sound quite similar, but I definitely have coronal contact in coda /d/ whereas I do not in coda /t/. [ʔd̚] is my best transcription of that.

[Nortaneous]

Another thing I wonder as to how common it really is in English is assimilation of /t d/ + plosive clusters into geminates which take the POA and affrication, if any, of the second consonant (which are preglottalized and preceded by short vowels if the first consonant is /t/, and non-preglottalized and preceded by long vowel if the first consonant is /d/). For instance, vodka is [ˈvaːkːə(ː)], hatpin is [ˈhɛʔpːɘ̃(ː)n], and Atkins is [ˈɛːʔkːɘ̃ːnts]. Also, for me at least, it seems that the geminates as a whole are voiceless, even if the individual consonants were both lenis (this is true for all obstruent clusters for me). I have not seen this discussed much in the context of discussion of English dialect features, but it seems so normal to me, like it is not particular to the English around here, that it might just be one of those things that are not discussed because they are a given.

I also have more extensive assimilation of /d/ + sonorant clusters into geminates beyond assimilation with plosives; e.g. Adler is [ˈɛːʟ̞ːʁ̩(ː)], radio is [ˈʁʷeːjːo(ː)], and couldn't is [ˈkʰʊːnː(ʔ)]. These I get the impression are more dialectal or even idiolectal than the above, but I do wonder if anyone else also knows of anyone else having these.

There are also some other isolated assimilations into geminates that I am familiar with, e.g suggest is [sɘtˈtʃɜs]~[sɘtˈtʃɜsʲtʲ] and problem is [pʰʁ̥ɑːmː].

I don't have any of that, except maybe in rapid speech. I don't think I'd have voicing assimilation -- maybe [-gk-] in 'vodka', but certainly not [-kk-]. I'd expect /t/ to debuccalize before plosives, but that'd give [-ʔp- -ʔk-], not [-ʔp:- -ʔk:-]. 'Adler' and 'radio' wouldn't take assimilation.

Something that might be dialectal -- I've only noticed it in people from the NYC area -- is assimilation of /lj/ to [ʎ(:)].

[Pabappa]

Is that what Trump has? I just hear it as "biyyions and biyyions".

[Travis B.]

I don't have any of that, except maybe in rapid speech. I don't think I'd have voicing assimilation -- maybe [-gk-] in 'vodka', but certainly not [-kk-]. I'd expect /t/ to debuccalize before plosives, but that'd give [-ʔp- -ʔk-], not [-ʔp:- -ʔk:-]. 'Adler' and 'radio' wouldn't take assimilation.

Something that might be dialectal -- I've only noticed it in people from the NYC area -- is assimilation of /lj/ to [ʎ(:)].

Note that I would synchronically analyze vodka in my dialect to be /ˈvaɡkə/ not /ˈvakkə/ due to the preceding long vowel and lack of preglottalization; the voicing assimilation is really because voicing is suppressed in obstruent clusters altogether.

[Travis B.]

Is that what Trump has? I just hear it as "biyyions and biyyions".

Also note that he has /hj/ > [j], as in the word "yuge".

[mèþru]

Now I'm jealous of Trump because I could never pronounce true palatals besides /j/

[Travis B.]

Now I'm jealous of Trump because I could never pronounce true palatals besides /j/

You can probably pronounce [ç] as in [çj]uge though, unlike The Donald.

[mèþru]

It's not really [ç] as much as a palatalised and somewhat fronted glottal

[Linguoboy]

It's not really [ç] as much as a palatalised and somewhat fronted glottal

Eh, the difference is really minor. When I teach German, I start them off with this and get them to [ç] relatively easily.

[Travis B.]

It's not really [ç] as much as a palatalised and somewhat fronted glottal

Eh, the difference is really minor. When I teach German, I start them off with this and get them to [ç] relatively easily.

I natively have [ç], but only in the cluster [çj], so the trick with learning German pronunciation was losing the [j] so I could pronounce [ç] in isolation.