Twin Aster

Conworlds and conlangs
User avatar
Man in Space
Posts: 1827
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am

Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

Ḫurgéłis, the southwesternmost continent in the southern hemisphere, is an interesting case as far as claims to the continent are concerned. It is like a combination Scramble-for-Africa/Antarctica/Australia/Vietnam/Nicaragua situation there. The Tim Ar, the Tlar Canà, the CVS, and certain other players of one power level or another all have some territorial claims, but how much of that is actually paid mind and how much is bluster is pretty variable. Officially, the Tlar Canà and the CVS have no formal claims upon that territory, while they are aware of "privateers" who act "on their own impetus and initiative" they, of course, do not sponsor or condone them. The Tim Ar happily accepted this paradigm as it meant they could treat the "privateers" as "pirates" and not end up at war with the Tlar Càna and CVS. None of them care about the people who were already there, few though they were (there is notable genetic admixture from castaways who got blown to the landmass but couldn't leave).

----

Tim Ar military technology—and a significant proportion of Tim Ar domestic technology in general—has a very frequent kind of old-school feel, and by that I mean dieselpunk-ish and analog. There are, of course, plenty of computer and digital devices used therein—no modern army could do without it—but the Tim Ar thinking is that a) in the event of nuclear detonations or EMPs [which the adasar are much less shy of deploying in a military capacity in general], recovery is easier; b) the old saw about how Kalashnikovs are reliable and NATO weapons aren't? that's basically the official policy; b) a soldier ought to get to know one's machine(s) and/or weapon(s) both generally and specifically, as it will give him advantage and help him get a "gut sense" or intuition that a computer might never achieve; and c) it creates jobs.

----

Ironically, for being so dieselpunk-heavy, they're actually pretty much the leaders in clean energy.

Tralphium1 is their biggest trump card over the Tlar Canà and the CVS: They have a monopoly on the substance. Xi Boö B has a very large, close-in substellar companion. It is being interpreted as a helium planet due to how it seems to match the expected characteristics of one (helium planets are close-in giants whose hydrogen has all been blasted away by stellar wind, leaving just the helium), and it is just far enough from Xi Boö A (and Íröd) to be reachable in person within a reasonable timeframe, meaning it was exploitable. The Tim Ar managed to get there first (one of the titles in the imperial style is "Conqueror of the Second Sun"). Incidentally, a lot of the lower castes (and prisoners) get sent here, or rather to the smaller iceball that also orbits Xi Boö B (here; I don't know if we can detect such a planet in that system with our current capabilities).

They have a remarkably advanced geothermal regime. This was sort of spawned of secondary knowledge that was acquired on the way to making the Empire safer from volcanic events (q.v.). It's feasible to use geothermal power much more so than on Earth due to Íröd's higher volcanism; the empire of the Tim Ar itself has as its backbone the Burning Mountains (q.v., but pretty much exactly what they sound like).

There is also a considerable usage of biofuels. This is due, in part, to the caste system, of all things—you couldn't have a bunch of farmers growing things that never get sold due to oversupply, could you?—with the environmental benefits having been a secondary concern.

Nuclear fission is largely superseded in the Empire (though outside of it it does see much more use), though it was formerly in relatively widespread use2.

----

The Burning Mountains are the largest mountain range on Íröd, running over 10'000 km by some measures. The biggest, the baddest, the highest, the most perilous…all are within it3,4. As you could imagine, there are a lot of volcanoes there. These would periodically cause huge problems and devastating losses of life and destruction of property and land. Naturally, many parties had vested interests in studying and dealing with this threat.

The Magmadrome (CT: Adag signa ü Kandá Éden Guíł signa 'Lava Management Complex') is the crowning geological achievement of the Tim Ar. Through decades of effort, study, and design, they have developed and built out a largely subterranean system of monitoring and, to some extent, controlling the volcanic activity endemic to the mountains. There are a number of patches of otherwise inhospitable terrain with pipes coming out, through which geothermal vapor buildup is outgassed, and there are methods for distributing and managing actual magma and lava flows. They can't always prevent eruptions (sometimes they can but it's still a matter of intense research and experimentation), but they can at least lessen the effects.

/dág
route.PL
signa
RE:
ü
DEF
kandá
AG
éden
drive
guíł
lava
signa
RE:


----
  1. Helium-3.
  2. Thanks in part to Oqsh and their tradition of rad-priests.
  3. In fact, the dahsar Urheimat—where the species originated and fanned out from—was a massive riverine complex in the thick of them. It's currently kind of held as an off-limits, all-hope-abandon-ye-who-enter-here free-for-all zone. It's much like New Guinea with having a bunch of uncontacted peoples (and language families), for much the same reasons. It is incredibly hard to get through.
  4. Incidentally, Oqsh is located in it.
User avatar
Man in Space
Posts: 1827
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am

Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

I think I just realized how to justify the profusion of dirigibles in the setting…the tralphium. It's helium.

----

Monowheels are large wheels that rotate around a central track; you sit at 135º inside the wheel and control it with handlebars and pedals, the latter mounted on a little control platform at the very nadir that also has small lateral stabilizing wheels and provides a shield from on-road debris. Think the thing General Grievous tried to escape Obi-Wan in, but less blocky and bulky, no huge mecha-feet, and a bit more reclined.

Comet bikes are for ballers on a budget and for safety-minded individuals. They're dirtbike- or motorcycle-type things with a large outer shell (hance the name), which often holds safety enhancements. Beginner drivers often use them; some continue to do so after being certified.

Hoverbikes are exactly what they sound like. Floats are hovercars.

Dirigibles are often employed as passenger services and for other practical applications. The Tim Ar military apparatus is more keen on using jets, rocket-powered conveyances, and, perhaps surprisingly, helicopters and coleopters. Fixed-wing aircraft with annular wings are also operated.

Obviously there are spacecraft in the setting. Only the Tim Ar know how to build torchships; they keep a number of them around both for spaceborne operations (e.g. tralphium runs) and for intimidation. More conventional rockets are in use by everyone else; the moons of Íröd are colonized, and there are at least token scientific presences the areas of the other planets in the Xi Boö A system. There are spaceborne weapons, including tungsten-rod impactors and bomb-pumped X-ray lasers.
User avatar
Man in Space
Posts: 1827
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am

Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

A full slate of phonetic radicals:

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Left to right: MA, ME, , MO, MI, , MU.
User avatar
Man in Space
Posts: 1827
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am

Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

And here's another:

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Left to right: NA, NE, , NO, NI, , NU.
bradrn
Posts: 6515
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:25 am

Re: Twin Aster

Post by bradrn »

Another script question: in what sort of ways are the characters commonly simplified in casual writing? (I presume they do get simplified, like in any logographic script. Or just any script, really.)
Conlangs: Scratchpad | Texts | antilanguage
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices

(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)
User avatar
Man in Space
Posts: 1827
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am

Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

bradrn wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2025 2:33 am Another script question: in what sort of ways are the characters commonly simplified in casual writing? (I presume they do get simplified, like in any logographic script. Or just any script, really.)
That’s still in development. I do have some ideas for daughter scripts; I may share some later. I also want to (badly but on purpose) try to port the logography to the Ban De languages:
User avatar
Man in Space
Posts: 1827
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am

Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

Same order each line for the vowels. Top to bottom: Ø, P, B, T, D, Q, J, C, G.

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

The two missing glyphs (where one would expect CE and CI) are because single /k/ as an onset for these vowels is disallowed (it'd become Q). The glyphs for GE and GI are used to represent that sound, which has reduced from the full syllable it used to be to the approximant or voiced sibilant that it became at the time CC was spoken.
User avatar
WeepingElf
Posts: 1572
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:39 pm
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
Contact:

Re: Twin Aster

Post by WeepingElf »

Rock'n'roll.
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
My conlang pages
Yrgidrámamintih!
User avatar
Man in Space
Posts: 1827
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am

Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

WeepingElf wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2025 1:59 pmRock'n'roll.
Thank you!

The rest of the singleton radicals: F, S, Z, Ç, H, V, R.

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Again, no HE or HI because these would become ÇE and ÇI.
User avatar
Man in Space
Posts: 1827
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am

Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

Stroke order diagrams for selected glyphs.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
User avatar
WeepingElf
Posts: 1572
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:39 pm
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
Contact:

Re: Twin Aster

Post by WeepingElf »

Interesting. I notice many strokes that are drawn from bottom to top, a direction that seems to be rare in the world's writing system, but feels strangely natural to me.
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
My conlang pages
Yrgidrámamintih!
User avatar
Man in Space
Posts: 1827
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am

Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

WeepingElf wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2025 9:27 am Interesting. I notice many strokes that are drawn from bottom to top, a direction that seems to be rare in the world's writing system, but feels strangely natural to me.
It felt natural for the Caber too. They’ve Druids, after all, and one of their pervasive conceptual metaphors is GOOD IS DOWN (and also POSSESSION IS SIGHT but I can’t remember the route I took to get there). They tend to read left-to-right, bottom-to-top.
User avatar
Man in Space
Posts: 1827
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am

Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

Top row: BD series
Bottom row: TR series

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
User avatar
WeepingElf
Posts: 1572
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:39 pm
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
Contact:

Re: Twin Aster

Post by WeepingElf »

Man in Space wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2025 10:45 am
WeepingElf wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2025 9:27 am Interesting. I notice many strokes that are drawn from bottom to top, a direction that seems to be rare in the world's writing system, but feels strangely natural to me.
It felt natural for the Caber too. They’ve Druids, after all, and one of their pervasive conceptual metaphors is GOOD IS DOWN (and also POSSESSION IS SIGHT but I can’t remember the route I took to get there). They tend to read left-to-right, bottom-to-top.
My own conscript, the Old Albic featural alphabet, is written from bottom to top, too.
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
My conlang pages
Yrgidrámamintih!
bradrn
Posts: 6515
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:25 am

Re: Twin Aster

Post by bradrn »

WeepingElf wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2025 9:27 am Interesting. I notice many strokes that are drawn from bottom to top, a direction that seems to be rare in the world's writing system, but feels strangely natural to me.
Honestly, I have some issues with this writing direction. In my view, top-to-bottom writing is near-universal not only due to culture, but due to physics and biomechanics: most writing tools simply work better when pulled rather than pushed. (This is easy to forget because many modern tools work equally well in both directions.) The only scripts I’m aware of which are written from bottom to top are certain Philippine scripts, which are written using a knife on bamboo — and it’s natural to push knives away from your body.

So, what I’d like to see as justification is, at minimum, a description of what it’s usually written with, and how that leads naturally to bottom-to-top writing. (IIRC the inhabitants of this world aren’t actually human, which might give some more flexibility in justifying this.)
Conlangs: Scratchpad | Texts | antilanguage
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices

(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)
Travis B.
Posts: 7316
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: Twin Aster

Post by Travis B. »

bradrn wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2025 6:18 pm
WeepingElf wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2025 9:27 am Interesting. I notice many strokes that are drawn from bottom to top, a direction that seems to be rare in the world's writing system, but feels strangely natural to me.
Honestly, I have some issues with this writing direction. In my view, top-to-bottom writing is near-universal not only due to culture, but due to physics and biomechanics: most writing tools simply work better when pulled rather than pushed. (This is easy to forget because many modern tools work equally well in both directions.) The only scripts I’m aware of which are written from bottom to top are certain Philippine scripts, which are written using a knife on bamboo — and it’s natural to push knives away from your body.

So, what I’d like to see as justification is, at minimum, a description of what it’s usually written with, and how that leads naturally to bottom-to-top writing. (IIRC the inhabitants of this world aren’t actually human, which might give some more flexibility in justifying this.)
Maybe the script indeed was originally cut in a surface?
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
bradrn
Posts: 6515
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:25 am

Re: Twin Aster

Post by bradrn »

Travis B. wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 4:29 pm
bradrn wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2025 6:18 pm
WeepingElf wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2025 9:27 am Interesting. I notice many strokes that are drawn from bottom to top, a direction that seems to be rare in the world's writing system, but feels strangely natural to me.
Honestly, I have some issues with this writing direction. In my view, top-to-bottom writing is near-universal not only due to culture, but due to physics and biomechanics: most writing tools simply work better when pulled rather than pushed. (This is easy to forget because many modern tools work equally well in both directions.) The only scripts I’m aware of which are written from bottom to top are certain Philippine scripts, which are written using a knife on bamboo — and it’s natural to push knives away from your body.

So, what I’d like to see as justification is, at minimum, a description of what it’s usually written with, and how that leads naturally to bottom-to-top writing. (IIRC the inhabitants of this world aren’t actually human, which might give some more flexibility in justifying this.)
Maybe the script indeed was originally cut in a surface?
On the other hand, the patterns of lines seem to get rather intricate in some of the characters, and I’m not sure how easy that would be to create on a surface. But I’ll wait for Man in Space to comment.
Conlangs: Scratchpad | Texts | antilanguage
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices

(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)
User avatar
Man in Space
Posts: 1827
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am

Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

@bradrn & Travis—I'm a bit pressed for time atm but I will answer you when I have the time to give you a proper response. In the meantime…

DR, RS, X

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image

Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
bradrn
Posts: 6515
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:25 am

Re: Twin Aster

Post by bradrn »

Man in Space wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 8:06 pm @bradrn & Travis—I'm a bit pressed for time atm but I will answer you when I have the time to give you a proper response.
No worries, thanks!
Conlangs: Scratchpad | Texts | antilanguage
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices

(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)
User avatar
Man in Space
Posts: 1827
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 1:05 am

Re: Twin Aster

Post by Man in Space »

In the form in which it was principally promulgated back in the day, Caber logograms (toqitŭvadar1 or qanvan2) were originally made using a small brush (ŭmŭ means both 'paint' and 'write'); however, they originally designed from scoring on wood (because druids, after all). They weren't the only ones to discover writing3, but they were the first, around the XXI C. BC.

Out-of-universe, I liked the bottom-to-top idea because Caber culture has GOOD IS DOWN as a conceptual metaphor, and it felt like it kind of reïnforced that. I have a calligraphy set that I got for Christmas a while ago that I've never used; the ink is still good so I'd like to sit down sometime soon and see how that goes.

--------

Writing independently developed quite a few times on Íröd:
  1. The Caber, western Maranhír, XXI C. BC
  2. The Waqwaq, southeastern Tethír, mid XX C. BC
  3. In Gand, eastern Maranhír and extreme northern Tethír, late XX – early XIX C. BC
  4. The Khaya, southern central Maranhír, and the Tim Ar, northern central Maranhír, early XIX C. BC
  5. The Twonotwolo, Tuónhír, late XVIII – early XVII C. BC
  • The Caber, as you can no doubt tell, are the OGs. Lots of languages on Íröd use some flavor or descendant (genetic or merely inspirationally) of qanvan.
  • The Waqwaq, originating around the pair of inland seas in Tethír, developed their own logography; it was passed down and around the continent3 and eventually a daughter script ended up being used by the Jädewan, and its use spread from there.
  • Gand is a lowland area in northeastern Íar where the script that would ultimately develop into the one used for the Vyeic scriptures originated.
  • The Khaya and the Tim Ar are kind of a chicken-and-egg conundrum, historically speaking. No one's sure who drew first. The Khaya glyphs are flagrant and flamboyant; the Tim Ar had no fewer than four different kinds of writing that were called the Höhsë ü gûrn Ahsaha 'four modes', grouped into two pairs called eastalri (sg. gestalri) 'pairs':
    1. Gestalri ĝ ḫisí (image-based)
      1. Sasaha n orón 'color mode', an Aztec-esque colorful pictography system
      2. Sasaha m'aḫneḫ 'hieroglyphic mode', Egyptian-style hieroglyphs
    2. Gestalri n oisog (cuneiform-based)
      1. Sasaha n Atki 'Atskian mode', a workhorse cuneiform script
      2. Sasaha n Lemhár 'Levarian mode', a much more frilly, ornate, distinctive take on cuneiform (IRL inspired by nastaliq)
    Much about the chronology and directions and degrees of influence is uncertain and the means by which much ink has been spilled among historians.
  • The Twonotwolo are the inhabitants of Tuónhír, the multi-landmass continent in the southeastern ocean. Tuónhír was among the last places settled.
--------
  1. From toqi 'good, well, beneficial, rightly, justly' + ŭ- NPST.CIRC.PASS + vad 'design, dream up, foresee, design' + =r COLL, agreeing with the implied collective ŏsimir 'glyphs'.
  2. From qan 'morsel, bite; word' + van 'system, method, scheme'.
  3. And generally south of the Messerini line.
Post Reply