English questions

[Glass Half Baked]

California was just an example. I know it's found in various places (though I wasn't, as I stated, consciously aware of the merger as a child). The real question IMO is, since western dialects merge counterclockwise, and eastern dialects merge clockwise, should we consider these two separate changes?

[jcb]

California was just an example. I know it's found in various places (though I wasn't, as I stated, consciously aware of the merger as a child). The real question IMO is, since western dialects merge counterclockwise, and eastern dialects merge clockwise, should we consider these two separate changes?

How many people in western states have the "California Vowel Shift"? I think there may be many that don't, but still merge COT-CAUGHT.

Edit, for clarity: I think that the COT-CAUGHT merger is separate from the California Vowel Shift. First, they merged COT and CAUGHT into /A/ (CAUGHT went clockwise), and then rotated the newly merged /A/ back (counter-clockwise, along with other vowels) to /O/ (or /V/?).

[Darren]

Indeed, I thought that the spelling distinction between <o> and <au> was just an aesthetic spelling difference, like <ee> and <ea>, or <oCe> and <oa>, and nothing more. (Is there any dialect left in the English-speaking world that hasn't merged REED and READ, or LODE and LOAD?)

The two were kept apart in midlands dialects until at least last century, but I don't know if any of them are left.

[Travis B.]

I personally feel kind of sad about the loss of dialect diversity in English, and conversely this is why I insist on resisting further standardization in my own speech (even though there are areas where my own speech has undergone clear evidence of influence from StE, such as the fact that I only use the dialect /ˈhʌnər(d)/ for hundred in forming numbers like 'three hundred and sixty five' whereas people of my parents' generation here, even ones whose speech is overall relatively standard, use /ˈhʌnər(d)/ more generally). When I hear people like my daughter speak I can definitely tell that there is further influence from StE, e.g. she lacks the classic Milwaukee [ja(:)] and her pronunciation of sorry is with /ɑr/ rather than /ɔr/; of course, this may be an effect of that she's been growing up in Waukesha rather than Milwaukee county.

[jcb]

I personally feel kind of sad about the loss of dialect diversity in English, and conversely this is why I insist on resisting further standardization in my own speech (even though there are areas where my own speech has undergone clear evidence of influence from StE, such as the fact that I only use the dialect /ˈhʌnər(d)/ for hundred in forming numbers like 'three hundred and sixty five' whereas people of my parents' generation here, even ones whose speech is overall relatively standard, use /ˈhʌnər(d)/ more generally). When I hear people like my daughter speak I can definitely tell that there is further influence from StE, e.g. she lacks the classic Milwaukee [ja(:)] and her pronunciation of sorry is with /ɑr/ rather than /ɔr/; of course, this may be an effect of that she's been growing up in Waukesha rather than Milwaukee county.

Does your daughter merge COT and CAUGHT? (I recall reading/watching somewhere that the CAUGHT-COT merger is catching on more with the youth.)

[Travis B.]

I personally feel kind of sad about the loss of dialect diversity in English, and conversely this is why I insist on resisting further standardization in my own speech (even though there are areas where my own speech has undergone clear evidence of influence from StE, such as the fact that I only use the dialect /ˈhʌnər(d)/ for hundred in forming numbers like 'three hundred and sixty five' whereas people of my parents' generation here, even ones whose speech is overall relatively standard, use /ˈhʌnər(d)/ more generally). When I hear people like my daughter speak I can definitely tell that there is further influence from StE, e.g. she lacks the classic Milwaukee [ja(:)] and her pronunciation of sorry is with /ɑr/ rather than /ɔr/; of course, this may be an effect of that she's been growing up in Waukesha rather than Milwaukee county.

Does your daughter merge COT and CAUGHT? (I recall reading/watching somewhere that the CAUGHT-COT merger is catching on more with the youth.)

No. The dialects here in Wisconsin are practically cot-caught merger-free.

[Travis B.]

One area I have noticed that dialects right here in southeastern Wisconsin do not agree is the pronunciation of yesterday and sister. For instance, me and my parents (my father grew up in the same suburb as myself, and my mother grew up in Kenosha) generally pronounce them [ˈjɜsʲtɕʁ̩ˤːˌde̞(ː)]~[ˈjɜɕtɕʁ̩ˤːˌde̞(ː)]~[ˈjɜɕːʁ̩ˤːˌde̞(ː)] and [ˈsɪ̈sʲtɕʁ̩ˤ(ː)]~[ˈsɪ̈ɕtɕʁ̩ˤ(ː)], but many people here pronounce them [ˈjɜsʲtʲʁ̩ˤːˌde̞(ː)]~[ˈjɜsʲːʁ̩ˤːˌde̞(ː)] and [ˈsɪ̈sʲtʲʁ̩ˤ(ː)]~[ˈsɪ̈sʲːʁ̩ˤ(ː)], including many people I grew up with.

(Note that the difference between [s] and [sʲ] in many ways is that the former is denti-alveolar without any palatalization, while the latter is alveolar with light palatalization.)