English questions

[Glass Half Baked]

California was just an example. I know it's found in various places (though I wasn't, as I stated, consciously aware of the merger as a child). The real question IMO is, since western dialects merge counterclockwise, and eastern dialects merge clockwise, should we consider these two separate changes?

[jcb]

California was just an example. I know it's found in various places (though I wasn't, as I stated, consciously aware of the merger as a child). The real question IMO is, since western dialects merge counterclockwise, and eastern dialects merge clockwise, should we consider these two separate changes?

How many people in western states have the "California Vowel Shift"? I think there may be many that don't, but still merge COT-CAUGHT.

Edit, for clarity: I think that the COT-CAUGHT merger is separate from the California Vowel Shift. First, they merged COT and CAUGHT into /A/ (CAUGHT went clockwise), and then rotated the newly merged /A/ back (counter-clockwise, along with other vowels) to /O/ (or /V/?).

[Darren]

Indeed, I thought that the spelling distinction between <o> and <au> was just an aesthetic spelling difference, like <ee> and <ea>, or <oCe> and <oa>, and nothing more. (Is there any dialect left in the English-speaking world that hasn't merged REED and READ, or LODE and LOAD?)

The two were kept apart in midlands dialects until at least last century, but I don't know if any of them are left.

[Travis B.]

I personally feel kind of sad about the loss of dialect diversity in English, and conversely this is why I insist on resisting further standardization in my own speech (even though there are areas where my own speech has undergone clear evidence of influence from StE, such as the fact that I only use the dialect /ˈhʌnər(d)/ for hundred in forming numbers like 'three hundred and sixty five' whereas people of my parents' generation here, even ones whose speech is overall relatively standard, use /ˈhʌnər(d)/ more generally). When I hear people like my daughter speak I can definitely tell that there is further influence from StE, e.g. she lacks the classic Milwaukee [ja(:)] and her pronunciation of sorry is with /ɑr/ rather than /ɔr/; of course, this may be an effect of that she's been growing up in Waukesha rather than Milwaukee county.

[jcb]

I personally feel kind of sad about the loss of dialect diversity in English, and conversely this is why I insist on resisting further standardization in my own speech (even though there are areas where my own speech has undergone clear evidence of influence from StE, such as the fact that I only use the dialect /ˈhʌnər(d)/ for hundred in forming numbers like 'three hundred and sixty five' whereas people of my parents' generation here, even ones whose speech is overall relatively standard, use /ˈhʌnər(d)/ more generally). When I hear people like my daughter speak I can definitely tell that there is further influence from StE, e.g. she lacks the classic Milwaukee [ja(:)] and her pronunciation of sorry is with /ɑr/ rather than /ɔr/; of course, this may be an effect of that she's been growing up in Waukesha rather than Milwaukee county.

Does your daughter merge COT and CAUGHT? (I recall reading/watching somewhere that the CAUGHT-COT merger is catching on more with the youth.)

[Travis B.]

I personally feel kind of sad about the loss of dialect diversity in English, and conversely this is why I insist on resisting further standardization in my own speech (even though there are areas where my own speech has undergone clear evidence of influence from StE, such as the fact that I only use the dialect /ˈhʌnər(d)/ for hundred in forming numbers like 'three hundred and sixty five' whereas people of my parents' generation here, even ones whose speech is overall relatively standard, use /ˈhʌnər(d)/ more generally). When I hear people like my daughter speak I can definitely tell that there is further influence from StE, e.g. she lacks the classic Milwaukee [ja(:)] and her pronunciation of sorry is with /ɑr/ rather than /ɔr/; of course, this may be an effect of that she's been growing up in Waukesha rather than Milwaukee county.

Does your daughter merge COT and CAUGHT? (I recall reading/watching somewhere that the CAUGHT-COT merger is catching on more with the youth.)

No. The dialects here in Wisconsin are practically cot-caught merger-free.

[Travis B.]

One area I have noticed that dialects right here in southeastern Wisconsin do not agree is the pronunciation of yesterday and sister. For instance, me and my parents (my father grew up in the same suburb as myself, and my mother grew up in Kenosha) generally pronounce them [ˈjɜsʲtɕʁ̩ˤːˌde̞(ː)]~[ˈjɜɕtɕʁ̩ˤːˌde̞(ː)]~[ˈjɜɕːʁ̩ˤːˌde̞(ː)] and [ˈsɪ̈sʲtɕʁ̩ˤ(ː)]~[ˈsɪ̈ɕtɕʁ̩ˤ(ː)], but many people here pronounce them [ˈjɜsʲtʲʁ̩ˤːˌde̞(ː)]~[ˈjɜsʲːʁ̩ˤːˌde̞(ː)] and [ˈsɪ̈sʲtʲʁ̩ˤ(ː)]~[ˈsɪ̈sʲːʁ̩ˤ(ː)], including many people I grew up with.

(Note that the difference between [s] and [sʲ] in many ways is that the former is denti-alveolar without any palatalization, while the latter is alveolar with light palatalization.)

[Linguoboy]

I feel like I've asked this before, but what other adjectives do folks accept after any besides different and good?

(I found myself saying "any good-looking" the other day and I think I've used "any special" before.)

[hwhatting]

I feel like I've asked this before, but what other adjectives do folks accept after any besides different and good?

(I found myself saying "any good-looking" the other day and I think I've used "any special" before.)

You mean in predicative position in questions like "Is this any good / different?" These two are the only ones I ever have seen and used, but I'm not a native speaker.

[Travis B.]

I feel like I've asked this before, but what other adjectives do folks accept after any besides different and good?

(I found myself saying "any good-looking" the other day and I think I've used "any special" before.)

You mean in predicative position in questions like "Is this any good / different?" These two are the only ones I ever have seen and used, but I'm not a native speaker.

"Could this be any easier?"

[jal]

"Could this be any easier?"

That works with any comparative I'd say?


JAL

[Travis B.]

"Could this be any easier?"

That works with any comparative I'd say?

"Could he be any quicker?"
"Could the sky be any bluer?"
"Could it be any sunnier today?"
"Could this be any more difficult?"
"Could you get this package any more open?"

My guess is that it works with at least a large portion of comparatives.

[hwhatting]

Right, I didn't think of the comparative here, that's sure a usage I'm familar with.

[jcb]

Question:
What vowel does everybody have in the words HANG, ANGLE, PINK, BAG, BEG, BIG, VAGUE, and CRAIG? and do you normally raise lax front vowels before /g/ and /N/ (voiced velars)? How far do you raise them? Do you raise them enough to merge with another phoneme?

My answer:
HANG = /e/ = [eI]
ANGLE = /{/ = [{E] ???
PINK = /I/
BAG = /{/
BEG = /E/ = [EI] ???
BIG = /I/ = [Ij] ???
VAGUE = /e/, but I used to have /{/ when I was a kid.
CRAIG = /E/

* I normally raise the lax front vowels /{ E I/ before /g N/, but they are still phonetically and phonemically different from /e i/. I'm not sure of the exact qualities that they're raised too. I should look at them on Praat some day.
* HANG seems to be an exception, being fully raised to /e/.
* I've heard some people who fully raise /E/ to /e/ before /g N/, as in BEG, EGG, and LEG, and some people who fully raise /I/ to /i/ before /g N/, as in PINK. I think the people I heard these raisings from were always from the US west coast.
* VAGUE (and PLAGUE) used to have /{/ when I was a kid, but I've since corrected myself to /e/, but I probably forget to correct myself half the time.
* CRAIG still has /E/ though. (I wasn't even aware that some people don't have /E/ in CRAIG until I looked it up just now!)

* Do any dialects raise these vowels before unvoiced velar /k/?
* Is there an appendix of maps of the ranges of all the various English sound changes somewhere on the internet?

[Travis B.]

hang: /eɪ/ [ẽ̞ː]
angle: /eɪ/ [ẽ̞ː]
pink: /ɪ/ [ɪ̈̃]
bag: /æ/ [e̞ə̯]
beg: /ɛ/ [ɜː]
big: /ɪ/ [ɪ̈ː]
vague: /eɪ/ [e̞ː]
Craig: /ɛ/ [ɜː]

[vlad]

Question:
What vowel does everybody have in the words HANG, ANGLE, PINK, BAG, BEG, BIG, VAGUE, and CRAIG? and do you normally raise lax front vowels before /g/ and /N/ (voiced velars)? How far do you raise them? Do you raise them enough to merge with another phoneme?

hang = /a/ [æ] (raised but still the same phoneme)
ankle = /a/ [æ] (same as hang)
pink = /ɪ/ [i̞] (same as normal)
bag = /aː/ [aː] (not raised, although the same vowel is raised in ban [bæːn])
beg = There's a difference between the e in beg and the e in bet that I'd never noticed until I started paying attention to it just now. Maybe beg is fronted and bet is centralized? It's similar to the difference between hat and hang or bag and ban.
big = /ɪ/ [i̞] (same as pink)
vague = /æj/ (same as normal. The starting point is between the [æː] for ban and the [aː] of bag. Maybe I should call bag [äː] and call this [aj].)
craig = /æj/ (same as above)

[Starbeam]

Question:
What vowel does everybody have in the words HANG, ANGLE, PINK, BAG, BEG, BIG, VAGUE, and CRAIG? and do you normally raise lax front vowels before /g/ and /N/ (voiced velars)? How far do you raise them? Do you raise them enough to merge with another phoneme?

HANG = /ɛ/, sometimes /æ/ when i enunciate
ANGLE = /ɛ/, sometimes /æ/ when i enunciate
PINK = /i/, sometimes /ɪ/ when i enunciate
BAG = /æ/
BEG = /ɛ/, but EGG and LEG (and only EGG and LEG) are /ej/
BIG = /ɪ/
VAGUE = /ej/, i also try to do it in PRAGUE but i know people frown on that
CRAIG = /ej/. only some individuals are /ɛ/