Zompist Bboard Again

Pabappa wrote: ↑Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:04 pm do people pronounce those with initial stress too ?

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am Spellcheck flagged infinitesmal and I realised I've been deleting the penultimate syllable all this time.

Raphael wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:32 amI just learned how "bass" is actually pronounced in English. I always thought it was either "bus" or "bess".

Raphael wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:32 am I just learned how "bass" is actually pronounced in English. I always thought it was either "bus" or "bess".

anteallach wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:01 am As others have said, the fish is TRAP, which is probably the expected pronunciation (except that in TRAP/BATH split accents it could be BATH, but I think it usually isn't)

anteallach wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:01 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:32 am I just learned how "bass" is actually pronounced in English. I always thought it was either "bus" or "bess".

Why would it be "bus" or "bess"?

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:31 am

anteallach wrote: ↑Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:01 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:32 am I just learned how "bass" is actually pronounced in English. I always thought it was either "bus" or "bess".

Why would it be "bus" or "bess"?

Because after more than 26 years of learning English, I still sometimes get a bit confused about the various possible pronunciations of <a> in that language.

Salmoneus wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:51 pm (although there is a small but important set where it's spelled <ea>)

Salmoneus wrote: ↑Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:51 pm Yes, while <a> can be confusing, fortunately the vowels of 'bus' and 'bess' aren't - the former is virtually always spelled 'u', and the latter is usually just 'e' (although there is a small but important set where it's spelled <ea>)

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:24 pm The matter with STRUT is that it is often written with <o> when adjacent to <m>, <n>, <i>, and <v> for historical orthographic reasons (because these letters along with <u> were commonly written just with short upward strokes, with no other lines connecting them).

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:24 pm Another change was that in certain words in NAE, LOT (such as in <wa>) underwent unrounding and centralization to merge with STRUT.

OED wrote:Forms showing a palatal on-glide /j/ (compare Middle English you , etc.) are earliest attested for your pron. and adj., your adj. (already in Old English; compare geower, geowr- at your pron. and adj. Forms), and are apparently after ye pron. In early Middle English the initial palatal absorbed the first element of the diphthong /iu/ (the regular reflex of Old English ēo plus w ), resulting, after the shift of stress from a falling to a rising diphthong, in /juː/; a stage already reached (in some speech) by the early 13th cent. (compare the form ȝuw in the Ormulum). Middle English long ū thus produced was subject to regular diphthongization to /aʊ/ by the operation of the Great Vowel Shift, as is attested by some 16th- and 17th-cent. orthoepists, who also provide evidence that by the second half of the 17th cent. this pronunciation had come to be regarded as a vulgarism; it survives in a number of modern regional English varieties. The modern standard pronunciation derives partly from a Middle English unstressed variant with short ŭ , subsequently restressed and lengthened, and partly from a form which preserved the falling diphthong /iu/ and subsequently shared the development of other words with this sound (e.g. new adj., true adj.) in which the shift of stress to /juː/ did not take place until later; see further E. J. Dobson Eng. Pronunc. 1500–1700 (ed. 2, 1968) II. §§4, 178.

Ryusenshi wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:40 pmJack Windsor Lewis calls this the bleck hendbeg problem.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:31 pm Also, why is you pronounced /juː/? Is the spelling irregular? Or was the vowel unaffected by the GVS, perhaps because it was short at the time?

I met a young Quaker man, whose countenance I lik'd, and, accosting him, requested he would tell me where a stranger could get lodging. We were then near the sign of the Three Mariners. "Here," says he, "is one place that entertains strangers, but it is not a reputable house; if thee wilt walk with me, I'll show thee a better."

The application was unfortunately [made] to perhaps the only man in the company who had the firmness not to be affected by the preacher. His answer was, "At any other time, Friend Hopkinson, I would lend to thee freely; but not now, for thee seems to be out of thy right senses."

Their captain prepar'd for defense; but told William Penn, and his company of Quakers, that he did not expect their assistance, and they might retire into the cabin, which they did, except James Logan,[82] who chose to stay upon deck, and was quarter'd to a gun. The suppos'd enemy prov'd a friend, so there was no fighting; but when the secretary went down to communicate the intelligence, William Penn rebuk'd him severely for staying upon deck, and undertaking to assist in defending the vessel, contrary to the principles of Friends, especially as it had not been required by the captain. This reproof, being before all the company, piqu'd the secretary, who answer'd, "I being thy servant, why did thee not order me to come down? But thee was willing enough that I should stay and help to fight the ship when thee thought there was danger."

At Newport we took in a number of passengers for New York, among which were two young women, companions, and a grave, sensible, matronlike Quaker woman, with her attendants. I had shown an obliging readiness to do her some little services, which impress'd her I suppose with a degree of good will toward me; therefore, when she saw a daily growing familiarity between me and the two young women, which they appear'd to encourage, she took me aside, and said, "Young man, I am concern'd for thee, as thou hast no friend with thee, and seems not to know much of the world, or of the snares youth is expos'd to; depend upon it, those are very bad women; I can see it in all their actions; and if thee art not upon thy guard, they will draw thee into some danger; they are strangers to thee, and I advise thee, in a friendly concern for thy welfare, to have no acquaintance with them." As I seem'd at first not to think so ill of them as she did, she mentioned some things she had observ'd and heard that had escap'd my notice, but now convinc'd me she was right. I thank'd her for her kind advice, and promis'd to follow it. When we arriv'd at New York, they told me where they liv'd, and invited me to come and see them; but I avoided it, and it was well I did; for the next day the captain miss'd a silver spoon and some other things, that had been taken out of his cabin, and, knowing that these were a couple of strumpets, he got a warrant to search their lodgings, found the stolen goods, and had the thieves punish'd. So, tho' we had escap'd a sunken rock, which we scrap'd upon in the passage, I thought this escape of rather more importance to me.