Re: If natlangs were conlangs
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:45 pm
Especially when one includes Finland.
Well apparently the Mull of Kintyre was used as a test of how erect a penis can be before it is deemed too vulgar to be passed by the BBFC.
Sam: Semiticzompist wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:55 pm Sam: Here's the final map,
Lenny: Is that a penis?
Sam: It's a peninsula. OK, everybody pick a location and a family. Remember, we want it to be diverse and naturalistic.
Gerald: Top of this area. Indo-European.
Ross: I'll take the area to the east. Indo-European.
Greta: I'll take this little peninsula... just east of the penis. Indo-European.
Alia: I wanted that area... how about if I take this tiny little area right above you? Indo-European.
Sam: You can take bigger areas, you know. A few empires and such are naturalistic.
Lenny: I take the penis. Indo-European. Oh, we've also spread to this entire continent to the west.
Gerald: That's not even close to your peninsula. Fine, my family takes the northern continent. Also this big island continent in the east.
Ross: My area extends all the way across the top of the map.
Sam: Sigh. Please, we can't have the whole world be one family. I'll take this area in the center. Semitic.
Irene: I'll take the region to the east of that. Indo-European.
Jake: I'll take the eastern half of the mega continent and all these islands.
Sam: Oh come on, you can't take an area that big.
Jake: Fine. Just this little island group then, and it's an isolate.
Cory, Jake's younger brother: I'll take this peninsula. Jake's family.
Jake: You can't be right next to me and you can't be in my family.
Sam: He can be next to you if he wants. But Cory, Jake wants to be an isolate.
Cory [reading Jake's notes]: Yeah, yeah.
Inge: I want this big area east of Irene. Indo-European.
Sam: Goddammit. Fine. I'm taking the coast opposite this Indo-European megafamily so nobody can make more Indo-European there.
Calvin: I have a great idea for an Indo-European language which...
Sam: No more land grabs.
Calvin: It's OK. It's a family that's hung on just on the fringes of Gerald's area.
Gerald: What? Mine is obviously the dominant language of the planet, how could a whole language family continue to exist there?
Sam: You two work it out. Since it's not new territory, I'll allow it.
Akangka wrote: ↑Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:51 amSam: Semiticzompist wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:55 pm Sam: Here's the final map,
Lenny: Is that a penis?
Sam: It's a peninsula. OK, everybody pick a location and a family. Remember, we want it to be diverse and naturalistic.
Gerald: Top of this area. Indo-European.
Ross: I'll take the area to the east. Indo-European.
Greta: I'll take this little peninsula... just east of the penis. Indo-European.
Alia: I wanted that area... how about if I take this tiny little area right above you? Indo-European.
Sam: You can take bigger areas, you know. A few empires and such are naturalistic.
Lenny: I take the penis. Indo-European. Oh, we've also spread to this entire continent to the west.
Gerald: That's not even close to your peninsula. Fine, my family takes the northern continent. Also this big island continent in the east.
Ross: My area extends all the way across the top of the map.
Sam: Sigh. Please, we can't have the whole world be one family. I'll take this area in the center. Semitic.
Irene: I'll take the region to the east of that. Indo-European.
Jake: I'll take the eastern half of the mega continent and all these islands.
Sam: Oh come on, you can't take an area that big.
Jake: Fine. Just this little island group then, and it's an isolate.
Cory, Jake's younger brother: I'll take this peninsula. Jake's family.
Jake: You can't be right next to me and you can't be in my family.
Sam: He can be next to you if he wants. But Cory, Jake wants to be an isolate.
Cory [reading Jake's notes]: Yeah, yeah.
Inge: I want this big area east of Irene. Indo-European.
Sam: Goddammit. Fine. I'm taking the coast opposite this Indo-European megafamily so nobody can make more Indo-European there.
Calvin: I have a great idea for an Indo-European language which...
Sam: No more land grabs.
Calvin: It's OK. It's a family that's hung on just on the fringes of Gerald's area.
Gerald: What? Mine is obviously the dominant language of the planet, how could a whole language family continue to exist there?
Sam: You two work it out. Since it's not new territory, I'll allow it.
Lenny: Latin
Gerald: Germanic
Ross: Russia?
Greta: Hellenic
Alia: Albania
Irene: Iranian
Jake: Japonic
Cory: Koreanic
Inge: Indo-Aryan
Calvin: Celtic
Ben: I take these southern Africa, Bantu.zompist wrote: ↑Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:55 pm Yeah, the mega-thread probably went something like this:
Sam: Here's the final map,
Lenny: Is that a penis?
Sam: It's a peninsula. OK, everybody pick a location and a family. Remember, we want it to be diverse and naturalistic.
Gerald: Top of this area. Indo-European.
Ross: I'll take the area to the east. Indo-European.
Greta: I'll take this little peninsula... just east of the penis. Indo-European.
Alia: I wanted that area... how about if I take this tiny little area right above you? Indo-European.
Sam: You can take bigger areas, you know. A few empires and such are naturalistic.
Lenny: I take the penis. Indo-European. Oh, we've also spread to this entire continent to the west.
Gerald: That's not even close to your peninsula. Fine, my family takes the northern continent. Also this big island continent in the east.
Ross: My area extends all the way across the top of the map.
Sam: Sigh. Please, we can't have the whole world be one family. I'll take this area in the center. Semitic.
Irene: I'll take the region to the east of that. Indo-European.
Jake: I'll take the eastern half of the mega continent and all these islands.
Sam: Oh come on, you can't take an area that big.
Jake: Fine. Just this little island group then, and it's an isolate.
Cory, Jake's younger brother: I'll take this peninsula. Jake's family.
Jake: You can't be right next to me and you can't be in my family.
Sam: He can be next to you if he wants. But Cory, Jake wants to be an isolate.
Cory [reading Jake's notes]: Yeah, yeah.
Inge: I want this big area east of Irene. Indo-European.
Sam: Goddammit. Fine. I'm taking the coast opposite this Indo-European megafamily so nobody can make more Indo-European there.
Calvin: I have a great idea for an Indo-European language which...
Sam: No more land grabs.
Calvin: It's OK. It's a family that's hung on just on the fringes of Gerald's area.
Gerald: What? Mine is obviously the dominant language of the planet, how could a whole language family continue to exist there?
Sam: You two work it out. Since it's not new territory, I'll allow it.
Not shown: the group decides that their species evolved in Africa, which should therefore have the most diversity, only Ben has already grabbed most of the continent for his "Bantu" and won't give any of it up.
Also not shown: to cover up Gerald and Lenny's outrageous land grab, the group puts all their older and wackier conlangs on those continents in random locations.
Well, "low" is relative, of course. I'm not saying it's at the bottom of the possible vowel space or anything. But it's pretty low, sure. As in wikipedia's chart of "modern RP" (SSBE).
The third one is CUT, with its contemporary SSBE (SSEE?) value. I did miss BATH/FATHER (makes it the fourth, ha!), but THOUGHT wouldn't strictly be low. I don't count mid-low (e.g. /ɛ//ɔ/) as "low". Also, in SSBE I feel the current value of THOUGHT is definitely /oː/, and I've heard someone (London-raised) say it like /uː/.
American English kind of does too, though not exactly. They do it by hating mid back monophthongs. Western North American English has merged all of LOT, THOUGHT, and FATHER to /ɑ/, and currently its mid back vowel space is basically empty. There's just [ɔ] before /r/ and in the diphthong /ɔɪ/, and the diphthong /oʊ/.
Interesting! I didn't know that. What is the mid vowel?
Now, to be fair, there is that affix -like that can be stuck on 'native' roots; as far as I can tell birdlike, nounlike, noselike, earlike, and eyelike are perfectly cromulent...though they seem to have a slightly different meaning? It looks to me like you can only call things that aren't actually birds 'birdlike', e.g.? And anyway it would have been nice for that affix to be mentioned in the main text instead of buried in a table of derivational affixes! Zomp's thing where the derivational morphology gets called out in detail is much more useful.Seirios wrote: ↑Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:35 am
- Word derivation: Um...I get they maybe want to be cute and subtly show the irony of the baked-in "subjugation" of this supposedly "dominant" people as contrasted to its (ridiculous, again) "high" status. But it is completely nonsensical and insensible to disable most any word derivation from native words, so that you can't regularly derive adjectives from common words at all and must resort to a different register and origin of vocab. Like the adjectival forms of bird, noun, nose, ear, and eyes don't become something like *birdish, *nounish, *nosish, *earish, *eyish , or *-ly, like their rules technically allow, but freaking avian, nominal, nasal, aural and ocular
You can blame that bit on that Indo-European mega-project, I think. The same place that weirdness with ab-/ad-/an- and in-/im- comes from. Come to that, 'Latin', but all its descendants are...Romance, after the city the language was spoken in!And while we're at it, there's no reason the adjectival form of bird should be avian instead of avial. It makes little sense to introduce so many derivational suffixes with the same meaning and quite arbitrarily stipulated rules of when and where they may or may not be applied.