Zompist Bboard Again

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:16 pm

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 1:13 pmIn my mind, a mug is usually a ceramic vessel of fairly small size (the standard would be about eight fluid ounces, but they can be larger, and do come as "soup mugs", which may or may not be used for soup, or even larger tall or deliberately-oversized ones) meant to hold hot beverages, and which are now usually also microwave-safe (you might microwave water for tea or hot coffee in one, for example).

I would say the standard-sized mug is actually 12 oz, not 8, and that the defining feature isn't the material (plastic and glass mugs exist) but the presence of a handle.

The ones in my kitchen (I was curious, so I checked) seem to be mostly eight or a bit more, but they are, now that I think about it, a bit on the small side.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote:A mug is a kind of "cup", which in my experience is much broader, and may include tall vessels (usually made of glass, and called "glasses") meant for cold drinks. It can also be used in the phrase "measuring cup" (which may be one of several distinct kitchen objects, but usually fairly small ones in denominations such as "cup, half cup" and the like, "cup" being also a customary unit of measurement not now used, to my understanding, anywhere but the United States), To me, consequently, all mugs are cups, but not all cups are mugs.

For me, these are two different kinds of drinkware. Mugs are heavier and always have handles; cups are lighter, typically smaller, and may or may not have handles.

You preserve my grandmother's distinction, then.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote:My paternal grandmother (Southern US, age 90) does use "cup" more restrictively as "mug; unit of measurement", however, and distinguishes between a "cup" and a "glass" (she once operated a tea room, and remarked genuine confusion when an employee asked for "cups", meaning "glasses" — a more Northern and younger speaker thing — but which was interpreted as "mugs", though the matter was figured out without any great harm being done).

Tea is drunk from glasses in some regions (e.g. Eastern Europe, Middle East), so I would have understood this as asking for a small glass similar to a juice glass.

Ah, she would've served tea in a ceramic vessel most likely, though I have seen glass teacups before. They're usually quite pretty. I don't think I've ever owned any, though.

Ryusenshi wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 4:24 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Sun May 16, 2021 3:25 pm Yes, definitely. A "beaker" in the modern scientific "piece of laboratory equipment" sense is called a "Reagenzglas".

Are you sure? From a cursory look, a "Reagenzglas" looks more like a test tube, not a beaker...

Indeed, Reagenzglas means 'test tube'; 'beaker' is Becherglas.

For me, a glass is definitely NOT a kind of cup. However, glasses can still be used like cups, e.g. for tea in some cultures, and some glasses can also be cups, or at least some cups are made of glass.

For me, this is a glass:
This is not a glass (or a glass mug, for that matter, contrary to what the link says) but rather a glass cup:
A beaker in science looks like this:
or this: https://www.grainger.com/product/6FAF9? ... lsrc=aw.ds.
These can be used for cooking as well.

A beaker you drink from might look something like this: https://www.merchbar.com/rock-alternati ... mic-beaker, although I don't see beakers in such a context often enough to really make that judgment, I guess.

A thing with a handle and no lid is a mug, whether it's tall or short. I have a mug that can fit three cups of coffee. A demitasse is also a mug.
A short thing with no handle is a cup, unless it's made out of glass and/or typically used for alcohol, in which case it's a glass. A shot glass is not a cup.
A tall thing with no handle and no lid is a glass, unless it's opaque, in which case it's probably a cup. It could also be a thermos, which can be used as a cup.
A tall thing with a handle and a lid is probably a stein.

A glass is arguably a type of cup, but also arguably not. A mug is probably not a type of cup, but a cup of coffee is enough coffee to fill a standard mug. Cups are typically made of plastic.

Hot things go in mugs. Cold things go in glasses. Cold things can also go in mugs, but it's a bad idea to put hot things in glasses.

It would be pretty weird to drink from a beaker.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 10:03 amAh, she would've served tea in a ceramic vessel most likely, though I have seen glass teacups before. They're usually quite pretty. I don't think I've ever owned any, though.

We're probably imaging different things. If I saw a vessel the size and shape of a teacup but made of glass, I'd assume it was for punch (particularly if it was ornate). The glasses I've seen used for tea are just simple cylinders, about the size and shape of juice glasses. All the ornamentation goes onto the podstakannik or zarf, which fits over the bottom like a sleeve and usually has a handle.

The vessels called 'beakers' by archaeologists (as in 'Bell Beaker culture') are in German simply called Becher. The Bell Beaker culture, for instance, is called Glockenbecherkultur.

The Muppets character is probably named for the laboratory glassware piece, though it is of course by the same time onomatopoeic for the kind of sounds he makes.

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 10:31 pmA thing with a handle and no lid is a mug, whether it's tall or short.

So this is a mug for you?

A glass is arguably a type of cup, but also arguably not.

For me, this is pretty much the is-this-a-sandwich-type issue of categorization.

Cups are typically made of plastic.

Not styrofoam? Or paper?

it's a bad idea to put hot things in glasses.

It's pretty common in a lot of cultures to pour boiling hot tea straight into a glass without it breaking or cracking. The glass won't break except under certain conditions (if the interior of the glass heats up much faster than the exterior. Thick glasses are more likely to break
because heat isn't conducted as quickly through thick glass as through thin glass).

As far as hot liquid in glasses goes, I typically don't use handle-less glasses for hot drinks because the glass doesn't insulate my hand well from the potentially-scalding liquid.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 2:45 pm As far as hot liquid in glasses goes, I typically don't use handle-less glasses for hot drinks because the glass doesn't insulate my hand well from the potentially-scalding liquid.

That's why the Russians use special tea glass holders, typically made out of metal, known as podstakanniks.

It's also part of the reason why you might want to just wait for the damn tea to cool down a bit.

Vijay wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 10:34 am So this is a mug for you?

A teacup, which is a type of mug.

Not styrofoam? Or paper?

Less prototypical.

It's pretty common in a lot of cultures to pour boiling hot tea straight into a glass without it breaking or cracking. The glass won't break except under certain conditions (if the interior of the glass heats up much faster than the exterior. Thick glasses are more likely to break
because heat isn't conducted as quickly through thick glass as through thin glass).

I had the impression that poor-quality glass was more susceptible to thermal fracture, but this might be specifically about Pyrex kitchenware no longer being made with borosilicate.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 4:18 pmBut I want to drink it noooooooooow!

This is honestly a problem I at least used to have for a long time (with all food and drink, not just tea). When I was younger, I used to complain about everything being too hot. Now, people keep telling me, "Be careful! It's hot!" and it isn't really. (Soup dumplings come to mind. People think you have to break them open. You don't. Just let them cool down a bit).

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 6:11 pm

Vijay wrote: ↑Wed May 19, 2021 10:34 am So this is a mug for you?

A teacup, which is a type of mug.

First time hearing of this

I had the impression that poor-quality glass was more susceptible to thermal fracture

Well, yeah, probably! I mean, that would seem to make sense.

To me a teacup is emphatically not a mug...

Well, yeah, to me, too. But I assume there's some kind of regional/dialect difference at play here.

Though this is going back a ways, I call the reusable coffee vessel a ‘keepy cup’; and I call thumb drives ‘zip drives’. For context, I live in England.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 8:56 pm To me a teacup is emphatically not a mug...

Agree. Also, a mug holds roughly 8 or 9 fl.oz of liquid, correct? A teacup probably holds half that and is wider, so your tea will cool much quicker as a result. Also, mugs don't come with saucers in my experience, while cups do.

Jonlang wrote: ↑Fri May 21, 2021 10:44 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 8:56 pm To me a teacup is emphatically not a mug...

Agree. Also, a mug holds roughly 8 or 9 fl.oz of liquid, correct? A teacup probably holds half that and is wider, so your tea will cool much quicker as a result. Also, mugs don't come with saucers in my experience, while cups do.

To me a teacup is substantially shorter than a mug, is very often narrower at the base than its top, and is often more delicate than a mug and made out of fine china. And yes, they common come with saucers where mugs do not.

Vijay wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 8:58 pm Well, yeah, to me, too. But I assume there's some kind of regional/dialect difference at play here.

I grew up with mugs of many different sizes and no saucers, so it's entirely possible that I'm just uncultured, but as far as I'm concerned even a 2oz demitasse is a mug. An espresso mug.

Google Images suggests that there's no principled way to distinguish between a demitasse and a teacup, but e-commerce is bad so it may well be wrong.

For me, a mug is a kind of cup ('cup' includes ~all open drinking vessels), and the distinction that a mug has is that it a) is comfortable to use with hot beverages (so it should have a handle or otherwise be thermally insulated), b) somewhat resilient to being (e.g.) dropped on the ground (so a teacup of thin/delicate porcelain is not a mug, and neither is a glass cup with a handle), and c) non-disposable (so a paper coffee cup that you get at starbucks isn't a mug).

A 'glass' is a cup made of glass.