Zompist Bboard Again

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:38 pm "hit," as in "popular" or "successful," is another English term that has cought on in languages that have not borrowed other meanings of the word. Gosh, people must thing English is just a really violent language.

If anything, they may think of English as a more peaceful language than it is, because they are unaware of the non-peaceful meanings of kick and hit.

Here is the opposite: Germans use Homepage to mean a website, not just a homepage, and it drives me crazy.

Mainly because 'page' is 'Seite' in German, which sounds a lot like 'site', right?

Creyeditor wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:13 am Mainly because 'page' is 'Seite' in German, which sounds a lot like 'site', right?

Hmm, I don't see the logic. Both Webseite and Website are used as well, but a lot of people seem to prefer the word Homepage just as the word for an entire website.

Imralu wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:38 am

Creyeditor wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:13 am Mainly because 'page' is 'Seite' in German, which sounds a lot like 'site', right?

Hmm, I don't see the logic. Both Webseite and Website are used as well, but a lot of people seem to prefer the word Homepage just as the word for an entire website.

Moreover, the terms Webseite and Website, differing only slightly in both spelling and pronunciation, are constantly confused with each other. To me, however, a Webseite is a web page, i.e. a single HTML document (with embedded content such as images), while a Website is a collection of web pages forming a unified whole, stored together and linked to each other.

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:52 am

Imralu wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:38 am

Creyeditor wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:13 am Mainly because 'page' is 'Seite' in German, which sounds a lot like 'site', right?

Hmm, I don't see the logic. Both Webseite and Website are used as well, but a lot of people seem to prefer the word Homepage just as the word for an entire website.

Moreover, the terms Webseite and Website, differing only slightly in both spelling and pronunciation, are constantly confused with each other. To me, however, a Webseite is a web page, i.e. a single HTML document (with embedded content such as images), while a Website is a collection of web pages forming a unified whole, stored together and linked to each other.

That makes sense.

I think I translate Webseite as Homepage in my head and they can have all three meanings, even though I know the 'proper' use. Maybe it's just me.

Maybe the reason for this is that "homepage" was borrowed a couple of months earlier than "website"? At least that's what I seem to remember from the late nineties...

Japanese offers some interesting examples.

• FR objet "object" → JP オブジェ (obuje) "art object, contemporary sculpture"
• EN gal → JP ギャル (gyaru) "girl who follows a specific fashion (typically including dyed hair and a tan)"

This one made me chuckle.

• FR séance "session" → EN séance "ceremony to communicate with ghosts" (this would be séance de spiritisme in French)

I learned about this from this Tweet. What, it's a generic word in French? They use the same word for workouts or therapy? My reaction: what did you think the word meant? Wait, what?? Why did you borrow it for this thing in particular??

Ryusenshi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:22 pm

• FR séance "session" → EN séance "ceremony to communicate with ghosts" (this would be séance de spiritisme in French)

Same loan in German with the same meaning. Obviously, you French are so occult.

Ryusenshi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:22 pm Japanese offers some interesting examples.

• FR objet "object" → JP オブジェ (obuje) "art object, contemporary sculpture"

Objet is used with the same sense in English.

Similarly, one of my college friends used produit with the sense of "hair product".

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 12:24 pm

Ryusenshi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:22 pm Japanese offers some interesting examples.

• FR objet "object" → JP オブジェ (obuje) "art object, contemporary sculpture"

Objet is used with the same sense in English.

Similarly, one of my college friends used produit with the sense of "hair product".

The question I have is whether Japanese JP オブジェ (obuje) comes directly from French objet or through English?

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:52 am

Imralu wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:38 am

Creyeditor wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 5:13 am Mainly because 'page' is 'Seite' in German, which sounds a lot like 'site', right?

Hmm, I don't see the logic. Both Webseite and Website are used as well, but a lot of people seem to prefer the word Homepage just as the word for an entire website.

Moreover, the terms Webseite and Website, differing only slightly in both spelling and pronunciation, are constantly confused with each other. To me, however, a Webseite is a web page, i.e. a single HTML document (with embedded content such as images), while a Website is a collection of web pages forming a unified whole, stored together and linked to each other.

This mess reminds me of the Taiwanese use of "Wi-fi" for both Wi-fi and mobile Internet via 3G/4G/etc. ("data") — an example of a borrowing with a wider meaning than in the original. They ask "do you have Wi-fi" just as people ask "do you have data" here in Vancouver.

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:38 pm

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:52 am

Imralu wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:38 am Hmm, I don't see the logic. Both Webseite and Website are used as well, but a lot of people seem to prefer the word Homepage just as the word for an entire website.

Moreover, the terms Webseite and Website, differing only slightly in both spelling and pronunciation, are constantly confused with each other. To me, however, a Webseite is a web page, i.e. a single HTML document (with embedded content such as images), while a Website is a collection of web pages forming a unified whole, stored together and linked to each other.

This mess reminds me of the Taiwanese use of "Wi-fi" for both Wi-fi and mobile Internet via 3G/4G/etc. ("data") — an example of a borrowing with a wider meaning than in the original. They ask "do you have Wi-fi" just as people ask "do you have data" here in Vancouver.

I support this. "Data" is just the internet molecules you get by subscription, as opposed to the internet molecules you get at home, or the ones you can forage in public places. Calling them both wi-fi just eliminates an arbitrary distinction. Do you ever need to ask someone "do you have any subscription internet molecules left, as opposed to the internet molecule fountain they provide here at Starbucks?" No.

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:38 pm This mess reminds me of the Taiwanese use of "Wi-fi" for both Wi-fi and mobile Internet via 3G/4G/etc. ("data") — an example of a borrowing with a wider meaning than in the original. They ask "do you have Wi-fi" just as people ask "do you have data" here in Vancouver.

I do pretty much the same thing.

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 6:37 pmI support this. "Data" is just the internet molecules you get by subscription, as opposed to the internet molecules you get at home, or the ones you can forage in public places. Calling them both wi-fi just eliminates an arbitrary distinction. Do you ever need to ask someone "do you have any subscription internet molecules left, as opposed to the internet molecule fountain they provide here at Starbucks?" No.

"No"? Yes, I do, out of consideration for their plan! At least it used to be more common to ask that 10 years ago when the subscription molecules were more precious. The more you paid the more MBs you had available per month. It's true I haven't heard anyone ask that in a while though. But the distinction between "Wi-fi" and "data" did have its place.

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Tue Jul 26, 2022 5:38 pm This mess reminds me of the Taiwanese use of "Wi-fi" for both Wi-fi and mobile Internet via 3G/4G/etc. ("data") — an example of a borrowing with a wider meaning than in the original. They ask "do you have Wi-fi" just as people ask "do you have data" here in Vancouver.

Actually, in a more general expression, in Chinese we use "網路", or net. It means literally "net way, net road" and it is simplified from "網際網路", internet.
So, for someone like me who doesn't know the expression "do you have data", I might translate directly from the natural Chinese expressions and ask something like
你(的)手機有網路嗎？
*"Does your cell phone have internet?",
or
你家(裡)有網路嗎？
*"Does your house have internet?"

I've probably mentioned this before, but "train" has been borrowed into Korean to refer exclusively to intercity trains (think British Rail or Amtrak). If you refered to that long metal vehicle that moves through tunnels under the city as "a train," people would look at you like you just had a stroke.

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 6:00 pm I've probably mentioned this before, but "train" has been borrowed into Korean to refer exclusively to intercity trains (think British Rail or Amtrak). If you refered to that long metal vehicle that moves through tunnels under the city as "a train," people would look at you like you just had a stroke.

Well, to me the latter is a subway; while that is a type of train, train is not the first word that comes to mind to describe them.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Jul 27, 2022 6:16 pm Well, to me the latter is a subway; while that is a type of train, train is not the first word that comes to mind to describe them.

So what would you say instead of, "We'll have to get the next train?".