Zompist Bboard Again

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:08 am**

dendana wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:53 am How did I get here? Well first off it kind of looked like it was from Borneo - some languages there have sesquisyllabic structure and large vowel/diphthong systems (iirc it's likely substratum influence from an extinct branch of Austroasiatic). Then I found this awesome dissertation about the languages of Borneo. Skimming through it, the word dlay caught my eye since that was one in the text and it's a noteworthy cluster - it is listed for the Kelai (aka Selai) language. Looking at the Modang-Selai languages on Glottolog, I saw the source A note on 'spirit helpers' in the Lung Lejie epic of the Wehèa Modang (East Kalimantan) and knew it had to be from here, since we saw that name in the source text. Sure enough, the text is from pages 101-102 in that PDF.

Interesting, thanks for the links! I didn’t know some Bornean languages were sesquisyllabic.

Next:
hauiɲenaa ke ere-naa

lejhiĩ katɕa=te miiŋka ke katɕa-ʉrʉ kuti-hjaĩ amia-rate, ʉtene-kʉrʉ-a=ne kujɲa kuriae sauki ora-ĩ amʉ-naanaha ne-ĩ enanihja kʉane
nii kahe-te tʉrʉ-a ʉ-e sonajɲa ɲãe hauini-a raj kakʉnʉ=ne hana
nii hãʉ=te kujɲadera-ĩ ari-tɕate
nii hãʉ=te ari-ĩ mʉkʉ-ʉre suru hana
mʉkʉ-ʉrʉ-a=ne hana=te kuhjuri
nii hana=te mʉkʉ-ĩ ra-e raj neba
raj ɲaka-netonaj=te ajɲa mʉkʉ-e
aladino na-a raj ɲaka kʉraa
marga na-a nii hauiɲenaa kʉraa
ɲãe sa-a

Looks like it’s spoken in South America. Actually I’m going to go further and guess it’s from Arawak.

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:14 am**

Looks like it’s spoken in South America. Actually I’m going to go further and guess it’s from Arawak.

Yes, it is from South America. No, it's not Arawakan.

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:38 am**

dendana wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:53 am It is Modang, spoken in Borneo.

It's indeed Modang (and even though according to "The Languages of Borneo" this dialect is actually Segai, Modang is correct as well, since that's how it's called in my source.)

hauiɲenaa ke ere-naa

lejhiĩ katɕa=te miiŋka ke katɕa-ʉrʉ kuti-hjaĩ amia-rate, ʉtene-kʉrʉ-a=ne kujɲa kuriae sauki ora-ĩ amʉ-naanaha ne-ĩ enanihja kʉane
nii kahe-te tʉrʉ-a ʉ-e sonajɲa ɲãe hauini-a raj kakʉnʉ=ne hana
nii hãʉ=te kujɲadera-ĩ ari-tɕate
nii hãʉ=te ari-ĩ mʉkʉ-ʉre suru hana
mʉkʉ-ʉrʉ-a=ne hana=te kuhjuri
nii hana=te mʉkʉ-ĩ ra-e raj neba
raj ɲaka-netonaj=te ajɲa mʉkʉ-e
aladino na-a raj ɲaka kʉraa
marga na-a nii hauiɲenaa kʉraa
ɲãe sa-a

Is it Tucanoan?

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:33 pm**

Karch wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:38 am Is it Tucanoan?

Not Tucanoan

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:48 pm**

Is it Tupían?

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:55 pm**

Karch wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:48 pmIs it Tupían?

No, not Tupian either

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:00 pm**

Is it an isolate then?

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:15 pm**

Karch wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:00 pm Is it an isolate then?

Yes it is!

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:49 pm**

Urarina?

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:42 pm**

Karch wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:49 pmUrarina?

Good job, yes

Posted: **Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:17 pm**

I was completely stumped, since I don't know much about South American langs, so I just checked the Wikipedia pages for some of the South American isolates that seemed to me that they could be the sample, and upon seeing Urarina's phonology I knew that this was it. I'll post a new sample tomorrow.

Posted: **Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:03 am**

Nne no lʼ taame tv-m, á taamem tv me me, á tob taame tv nne no tum-m no. Nne no lʼ nyehm-m, yebnyehn nne no tum-m no.
M ba go njini nyia ba jol ellennge, eji nne awohng awohng no lʼ wuk alum enyame, kʼ fere bum alum nyao, we n nehm lam. Tibre m baam re me m ba lam njini nyia. M ba na re me m ba tahre njini nyia... Alum nya m ma bung a, nyanehm nya bahk-e lame go esʼkohro efung.
Me wo li ekʼkv eti, wahn li ba abʼbo eti. Nne no lʼ ya laak-m, ye wo m bahke tob laak-e, á bahke kabe akab gbalee. Tib tohko tiki jol re, ń ya laake me, ń nehm ma lim ejumjum.

Posted: **Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:10 am**

Nne and gbalee are distinctive. Is this Atlantic–Congo? Specifically, Volta–Congo but non-Bantoid?

EDIT: Just noticed the very distinctive tv. ⟨v⟩ is commonly /ə/ for some reason, but I wouldn’t know which African languages use this convention. (I’ve only seen it from some North American and Australian languages.)

Posted: **Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:15 am**

It is indeed Volta-Congo, but it's Bantoid.

Posted: **Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:17 pm**

It wouldn't happen to be Tiv, by any chance, would it? (I remember Tiv specifically because IIRC it was the first non-Bantu Bantoid language I looked at).

Posted: **Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:02 am**

It is Ekajuk.

Ok, how did I get here? I first tried to find all the Bantoid languages with /ə/ by staring at Phoible and Glottolog, but there were way too many to narrow it down. Next I tried to stare at some words in Bantoid languages from ComparaLex but unfortunately, I didn't see anything with <v>, and just having /ə/ doesn't really narrow things down.

Finally, I decided to use Reflex which is a fantastic lexical database of languages from Africa. I tried searching <tv> but nothing showed up - it must be in IPA. I searched for bɲ in hopes that the unusual cluster would bring up some language candidates. Ekajuk, Engwo and Limbum were Bantoid candidates - the last two didn't look anything like the sample, but googling Ekajuk yielded this example which was promising, with <v> and <eh> as vowels and lots of <á> and <tob>. Finally I googled the text sample Karch sent and sure enough, the first sentences are from John 12:44-45 in Ekajuk.

If anyone has any resources that might help to identify Bantoid languages, or knowledge of how to do so, I'd love to learn more! I haven't seen anything on Bantoid language characteristics/typology/historical linguistics and would love to read more about those topics.

Next:

apan maxé?
amát awan kié?
sap ya kié!
mesmatí kankiwáye!
naná tokom yené
nawosél payawét
glám yen kam xat alpáx?
yén watáp payawét
xát yen uhalaú
waxpakám
yeinán painák
payenuén nawís watáp payawét
nawís yen ánpayakláp
wamák paneluém mavís
somixóp aneluéme masekám?
nák painemét
áxpepolámla
ewé yekerená wená
newé semíeké peyaunáma, newé wái akáma
newe néeke senowéya payówera yenaméra
newé newáyaimawé lenaíkwená

Posted: **Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:15 am**

Wow, you are amazingly good at this game! But:

dendana wrote: ↑Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:02 am Finally I googled the text sample Karch sent and sure enough, the first sentences are from John 12:44-45 in Ekajuk.

Googling the text is supposed to be forbidden, though I don’t think anyone will mind here since you already figured it out beforehand.

apan maxé?
amát awan kié?
sap ya kié!
mesmatí kankiwáye!
naná tokom yené
nawosél payawét
glám yen kam xat alpáx?
yén watáp payawét
xát yen uhalaú
waxpakám
yeinán painák
payenuén nawís watáp payawét
nawís yen ánpayakláp
wamák paneluém mavís
somixóp aneluéme masekám?
nák painemét
áxpepolámla
ewé yekerená wená
newé semíeké peyaunáma, newé wái akáma
newe néeke senowéya payówera yenaméra
newé newáyaimawé lenaíkwená

Just going off the overall ‘look’, this is either Papuan or South America. (The two can be surprisingly similar.) I’m going to guess South American based on the preponderance of ⟨x⟩. But I’m sure this language seems familiar… is it Mataco-Guaicuruan by any chance?

(Of course, it being me guessing, it probably isn’t South American, and almost certainly isn’t Mataco-Guaicuruan either. But I have to start guessing somewhere!)

Posted: **Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:28 am**

Oops! I hope it's okay for me to google the text to check my answer if I've already arrived at it. If that's not allowed, I'll defer the confirmation to the person who posts the sample text next time.

Not Papuan or South American, though those are both honestly pretty good guesses aesthetic-wise.

Posted: **Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:00 am**

Is it North American then?

Posted: **Sat Jul 03, 2021 6:03 am**

Mesoamerican would be my next guess then.

Also: Is it tonal? If so, do the acute accents represent high tone?

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