Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Conworlds and conlangs
bradrn
Posts: 6717
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:25 am

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Post by bradrn »

Darren wrote: Tue Mar 11, 2025 5:54 am Chemakum (do not look at the 19th-century orthography for this one)
I feel a sudden urge to make a conlang with ⟨ʞ⟩.
Conlangs: Scratchpad | Texts | antilanguage
Software: See http://bradrn.com/projects.html
Other: Ergativity for Novices

(Why does phpBB not let me add >5 links here?)
Travis B.
Posts: 7647
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Post by Travis B. »

The thing is not having plain velar but having labiovelar and uvular consonants is not the same as not having consonants back of palatal at all. The former is far less weird typologically than the latter.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
User avatar
/nɒtɛndəduːd/
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2025 7:47 pm
Location: not here

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Post by /nɒtɛndəduːd/ »

Darren wrote: Tue Mar 11, 2025 5:54 am Chemakum (do not look at the 19th-century orthography for this one)
oh god

ok well screw readability because now I have yet another idea:

/p t pʲ c pʷ/ <p t pj q pv>
/ɸ s ʃ ç/ <w c x ʞ>
/t͡s t͡ʃ c͡ç/ <ç tx k>
/m n mʲ ɲ mʷ/ <m n mj ñ mv>
/ɾ ɹ l ɥ j ʎ w/ <d r l j̈ j λ v>

/i ɨ u e o a/ <i ï u e o a>

as you might notice, this romanization uses <ʞ λ> for /ç ʎ/, which might be taking it too far (and this probably can't be considered a 'romanization' system anymore because of it) but hey, that's part of the fun. any more ideas?
<notenderdude>

So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. That is why it was called Babel—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. Genesis 11: 8-9a (NIV)
ophois
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2024 4:06 pm

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Post by ophois »

bradrn wrote: Tue Mar 11, 2025 6:17 am
Darren wrote: Tue Mar 11, 2025 5:54 am Chemakum (do not look at the 19th-century orthography for this one)
I feel a sudden urge to make a conlang with ⟨ʞ⟩.
Very much same.
Darren
Posts: 899
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:38 pm

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Post by Darren »

Travis B. wrote: Tue Mar 11, 2025 8:46 am The thing is not having plain velar but having labiovelar and uvular consonants is not the same as not having consonants back of palatal at all. The former is far less weird typologically than the latter.
I was taking /pʷ mʷ/ to be [kpʷ ŋmʷ] and I've seen Klao analysed as having /p b t d c ɟ kp gb/ + junk so I vibe with it ngl
Nortaneous
Posts: 1684
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:29 am

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Post by Nortaneous »

/p t pʲ c pʷ/ <p t b k ƥ>
/ɸ s ʃ ç/ <f s j c>
/t͡s t͡ʃ c͡ç/ <ƨ ſ̣ ɔ>
/m n mʲ ɲ mʷ/ <m n ɯ ñ ɱ>
/ɾ ɹ l ɥ j ʎ w/ <r ɹ l ſ ȷ ꞁ w>

/i ɨ u e o a/ <i ᴉ u e o a>
Duaj teibohnggoe kyoe' quaqtoeq lucj lhaj k'yoejdej noeyn tucj.
K'yoejdaq fohm q'ujdoe duaj teibohnggoen dlehq lucj.
Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq.
Travis B.
Posts: 7647
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Post by Travis B. »

/p pʲ t c pʷ/ <p pi t g pu>
/ts tʃ cç/ <z c k>
/ɸ s ʃ ç/ <f s x h>
/m mʲ n ɲ mʷ/ <m mi n ni mu>
/ɹ ɾ l j ɥ ʎ w/ <r d l j v li w>

/i ɨ u e o a/ <i y u e o a>
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
Lērisama
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2024 9:51 am

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Post by Lērisama »

/p pʲ t c pʷ/ ⟨p pi t k pw⟩
/ts tʃ cç/ ⟨tz tzi tx⟩
/ɸ s ʃ ç/ ⟨f s si x⟩
/m mʲ n ɲ mʷ/ ⟨m mi n ni mw⟩
/ɹ ɾ l j ɥ ʎ w/ ⟨r d l i wi li w⟩

/i ɨ u e o a/ ⟨ei u ou e o a⟩
LZ – Lēri Ziwi
PS – Proto Sāzlakuic (ancestor of LZ)
PRk – Proto Rākēwuic
XI – Xú Iạlan
VN – verbal noun
SUP – supine
DIRECT – verbal directional
My language stuff
Lērisama
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2024 9:51 am

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Post by Lērisama »

Here is something gleb spat out a year or so ago, with heavily modified allophony. I've called it [s̠ɨɰːʲ˦˥]. I leave it as an exercise for the reader to work out the phonemic transcription for that

Phonemically, it's this:

/p t k/
/j ʟ/

/i ɨ u/
/ɛ ã ɔ/

Each word has either high or low register¹ and may have up to one lexically specified downstep in the ladt two syllables

You can analyse it as having an /s̠/² and no /ɨ/³, but either way ends up with one pair of phonemes that only contrast in a very specific set of circumstances⁴ and one very prominent (set of) allophones. I prefer the analysis above because it works better with some of the morphophonology⁶.

As might be expected, this comes with a lot of allophony, which is hopefully presented in a sensible order below:
  • [ɨ] is epenthesised from the left to deal with any clusters bigger than #C, CC, C# although Ct# Cj# are unaffected
  • [p t k] voice to [b~β d̪~ð ɡ~ɣ] between a voiced sound and a vowel if the accent isn't on the preceding syllable: i.e. [V -accent] ([j ʟ]) _ V
  • Nasality spreads rightwards through voiced segments from [ã], with [b~β d̪~ð ɡ~ɣ] becoming [m n̪ ŋ]. Additionally, final [p pt t tt k kt] become [m mː n nː ŋ ŋː] after a nasal vowel
  • Coda [p t k ʟ ʟ̃] lenite to [ɸ s̪ h ɰ ɰ̃]. Final [ɰ̃] may instead by [ʁ̃ɴ]
  • [ɨ ɨ̃ ã u ũ ɔ ɔ̃] front to [i ĩ ɛ̃ ʉ ʉ̃ ɞ ɞ̃] if any coronal precedes or if [j tj ti tɨ tɛ] follows. This is blocked by a following coda [ɰ ɰ̃ ʁ̃ɴ], for which see below
  • [i ɛ ĩ ɛ̃] back to [ɨ ɜ ɨ̃ ɜ̃] preceding one of [ɰ ɰ̃ ʁ̃ɴ]
  • [j] deletes adjacent to [i ɨ]
  • Hiatus, including that caused by the preceding rule, is fixed with an epenthetic [t]
  • [t s̪ d̪~ð n̪] palatalise to [s̠ s̠ z̠ ɲ] before [j i ɨ ɛ] or after [i j]
  • Word final [j], when preceding a consonant, geminates and palatalises it
  • [j ʟ] devoice to [j̊ ʟ̥] following a voiceless consonant
  • [j] lowers to [ɪ̯] after a non-high vowel
  • [t] is dental [t̪]
If I've done this right, it should have a surface inventory of

[m n̪ ɲ ŋ]
[p t k]
[ɸ s̪ s̠ h]
[b~β d~ð z̠ ɡ~ɣ]
[j j̃ ɪ̯ ɪ̯̃ ʟ ʟ̃ ɰ ɰ̃ ʁ̃ɴ]
[j̊ ʟ̥]

[i ĩ ɨ ɨ̃ ʉ ʉ̃ u ũ]
[ɛ ɛ̃ ã ɞ ɞ̃ ɔ ɔ̃]

+ Word final gemination for [m n̪ ɲ ŋ ɸ s̪ s̠ h j j̃ ɰ ɰ̃ ʁ̃ɴ], of which [mː ŋː ɸː hː ɰː ɰ̃ː ʁ̃ːɴ] may be palatalised
+ Internal gemination for [m n̪ ɲ ŋ j]
+ High, mid, low, high falling, low falling, rising, high rising, low rising

Here is some sample nonsense for you to test your romanisation on:

/˥jiãkɨkjꜜ ˥tɨt ˩ʟɛpãi ˥pɨꜜjɛkj ˩ti ˩kɔjꜜ ˥iɔꜜkij ˩tɨp ˥ʟɛꜜtãkj ˥pijtꜜ ʟij ˩jij ˥jɔã ˩pãjɔkitꜜ ˥jɛjkɔ ˥ʟɔjɛtkɔ ˥kɨʟuꜜtiʟ/

[i˩˦z̠ã˦˥ŋɨ̃˧ŋːʲ s̠is̠˦˧ ʟɛ˧βã˧ɲĩ˦˩ pi˧˥s̠ɛhːʲ˧ s̠i˧˩ kɞj˩˦ i˩˦z̠ɞ˦˥ki˧ s̠iɸ˧˩ ʟɛ˧˥t̪ãŋːʲ˧ pis̠˧˥ ʟi˧ i˧˩ jɞ˦ðã˦˧ pã˩˦j̃ɞ˧ŋis̠˦˥ jɛɪ̯˦kɔ˦˧ ʟɞ˦jɛs̪˦kɔ˦˧ kɨ˩˦ʟu˦˥s̠ɨɰ˧]

¹ Unless it is phonologically bound to another word
² Corresponding to a set of palatal(ised) allophones of /t/ in the standard analysis
³ Merged into /i/, although there's a pretty good argument for /ɨ/ being the better notation for the merged phoneme
⁴ /i ɨ/ only contrast in # _ [p k], [p k ʟ] _ # & [p k ʟ] _ t. The alternative analysis treats the first two situations as having a /j/ at the word boundary if [i] surfaces and offloads the latter situation to the introduced /t/–/s̠/ contrast, which is the only situation where that⁵ would be phonemic
⁵ For some reason this is only a valid sentence for me if the “that” is emphasised, although this probably belongs on a different thread
⁶ Specifically, some [i]-initial and -final words behave as if they begin/end with consonants when prefixed/suffixed. The easiest way to explain this is that they begin/end with /ji/ or /ij/ rather than /i/, but in a five vowel analysis all cases of a [i] at word boundary next to a non-coronal consonant must come with a /j/ already, leaving this phenomenon unexplained

Edits: I did not “d[o] this right”
Last edited by Lērisama on Sun Mar 16, 2025 5:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
LZ – Lēri Ziwi
PS – Proto Sāzlakuic (ancestor of LZ)
PRk – Proto Rākēwuic
XI – Xú Iạlan
VN – verbal noun
SUP – supine
DIRECT – verbal directional
My language stuff
Lērisama
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2024 9:51 am

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Post by Lērisama »

The current romanisation for this is based on another language with it's own historically minded interesting choices

[m n̪ ɲ ŋ] ⟨m n n ng⟩
[p t k] ⟨p t k⟩
[ɸ s̪ s̠ h] ⟨f s s h⟩
[b d ɡ] ⟨b d g⟩
[β ð z̠ ɣ] ⟨b d z g⟩
[j j̃ ɪ̯ ɪ̯̃ ʟ ʟ̃ ɰ ɰ̃ ʁ̃ɴ] ⟨j j e e l l r r rn⟩
[j̊ ʟ̥] ⟨j l⟩

[i ĩ ɨ ɨ̃ ʉ ʉ̃ u ũ] ⟨i i y y ü ü u u⟩
[ɛ ɛ̃ ã ɞ ɞ̃ ɔ ɔ̃] ⟨a a ā ö ö o o⟩
  • ⟨s z n⟩ representing [s̠ z̠ ɲ] must be adjacent to an ⟨i⟩
  • Gemination is marked by doubling and palatalisation by a following ⟨j⟩
  • Tone is unmarked¹
/˥jiãkɨkjꜜ ˥tɨt ˩ʟɛpãi ˥pɨꜜjɛkj ˩ti ˩kɔjꜜ ˥iɔꜜkij ˩tɨp ˥ʟɛꜜtãkj ˥pijtꜜ ʟij ˩jij ˥jɔã ˩pãjɔkitꜜ ˥jɛjkɔ ˥ʟɔjɛtkɔ ˥kɨʟuꜜtiʟ/

[i˩˦z̠ã˦˥ŋɨ̃˧ŋːʲ s̠is̠˦˧ ʟɛ˧βã˧ɲĩ˦˩ pi˧˥s̠ɛhːʲ˧ s̠i˧˩ kɞj˩˦ i˩˦z̠ɞ˦˥ki˧ s̠iɸ˧˩ ʟɛ˧˥t̪ãŋːʲ˧ pis̠˧˥ ʟi˧ i˧˩ jɞ˦ðã˦˧ pã˩˦j̃ɞ˧ŋis̠˦˥ jɛɪ̯˦kɔ˦˧ ʟɞ˦jɛs̪˦kɔ˦˧ kɨ˩˦ʟu˦˥s̠ɨɰ˧]

⟨izāngynngj sis labāni pisahhj si köj izöki sif latānngj pis li i jödā pājöngis jaeko löjasko kylusir⟩

¹ The donor language lacks it
LZ – Lēri Ziwi
PS – Proto Sāzlakuic (ancestor of LZ)
PRk – Proto Rākēwuic
XI – Xú Iạlan
VN – verbal noun
SUP – supine
DIRECT – verbal directional
My language stuff
Nortaneous
Posts: 1684
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:29 am

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Post by Nortaneous »

[m n̪ ɲ ŋ] ⟨m n n g⟩
[p t k] ⟨p/b t/d k/gk⟩
[ɸ s̪ s̠ h] ⟨f/w s/x s/x ch⟩
[b d ɡ] ⟨p/b t/d k/gk⟩
[β ð z̠ ɣ] ⟨v th z r⟩
[j j̃ ɪ̯ ɪ̯̃ ʟ ʟ̃ ɰ ɰ̃ ʁ̃ɴ] ⟨j j i i gl gl gl gn⟩
[j̊ ʟ̥] ⟨j l⟩

[i ĩ ɨ ɨ̃ ʉ ʉ̃ u ũ] ⟨i iñ ë ëñ ü üñ u uñ⟩
[ɛ ɛ̃ ã ɞ ɞ̃ ɔ ɔ̃] ⟨e eñ ä a añ o oñ⟩

/˥ ˩ Vꜜ ꜜV/ ⟨P-/h- B-/0- é/ũ è/û⟩
[˩˦] ⟨VV⟩

/˥jiãkɨkjꜜ ˥tɨt ˩ʟɛpãi ˥pɨꜜjɛkj ˩ti ˩kɔjꜜ ˥iɔꜜkij ˩tɨp ˥ʟɛꜜtãkj ˥pijtꜜ ʟij ˩jij ˥jɔã ˩pãjɔkitꜜ ˥jɛjkɔ ˥ʟɔjɛtkɔ ˥kɨʟuꜜtiʟ/

[i˩˦z̠ã˦˥ŋɨ̃˧ŋːʲ s̠is̠˦˧ ʟɛ˧βã˧ɲĩ˦˩ pi˧˥s̠ɛhːʲ˧ s̠i˧˩ kɞj˩˦ i˩˦z̠ɞ˦˥ki˧ s̠iɸ˧˩ ʟɛ˧˥t̪ãŋːʲ˧ pis̠˧˥ ʟi˧ i˧˩ jɞ˦ðã˦˧ pã˩˦j̃ɞ˧ŋis̠˦˥ jɛɪ̯˦kɔ˦˧ ʟɞ˦jɛs̪˦kɔ˦˧ kɨ˩˦ʟu˦˥s̠ɨɰ˧]

Hijzägẽghy sis kleväni pësèchy xi gkaij hijzáki xif klétäghy pis gli y hiothä bäijogìs hieiko klajesko küüglusër.
Duaj teibohnggoe kyoe' quaqtoeq lucj lhaj k'yoejdej noeyn tucj.
K'yoejdaq fohm q'ujdoe duaj teibohnggoen dlehq lucj.
Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq.
Lērisama
Posts: 258
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2024 9:51 am

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Post by Lērisama »

It turns out I really didn't describe this well sorry:
  • The voiced stops & fricatives are in free variation (first post edited to reflect)
  • The relationship between [ɰ̃] and [ʁ̃ɴ] isn't the clearest, and I should have explained it better: word internally, only [ɰ̃] is found, but word finally [ʁ̃ɴ] and [ɰ̃] are in free variation
  • It turns out I entirely forgot to describe the tone rules. Have this short summary below
    High register
    No accent: (H).HM
    First syllable accent: LHꜜ.(M)
    Later accent: LH.(H).MHꜜ.(M)
    Low register
    No accent: (M).ML
    First syllable accent: LHꜜ.(L)
    Later accent: LM.(M).MHꜜ.(L)
Sorry Nort, if that effects what you would have done
LZ – Lēri Ziwi
PS – Proto Sāzlakuic (ancestor of LZ)
PRk – Proto Rākēwuic
XI – Xú Iạlan
VN – verbal noun
SUP – supine
DIRECT – verbal directional
My language stuff
Karch
Posts: 604
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:09 am

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Post by Karch »

[m n̪ ɲ ŋ] <m n ny ng>
[p t k] <p t k>
[ɸ s̪ s̠ h] <f s s h>
[b~β d~ð z̠ ɡ~ɣ] <b d z g>
[j j̃ ɪ̯ ɪ̯̃ ʟ ʟ̃ ɰ ɰ̃ ʁ̃ɴ] <y y y l l g g g>
[j̊ ʟ̥] <y l>

[i ĩ ɨ ɨ̃ ʉ ʉ̃ u ũ] <i i ü ü u u u u>
[ɛ ɛ̃ ã ɞ ɞ̃ ɔ ɔ̃] <e e a o o o o>
[ɨ] is written <i> wherever predictable.

+ Word final gemination for [m n̪ ɲ ŋ ɸ s̪ s̠ h j j̃ ɰ ɰ̃ ʁ̃ɴ], of which [mː ŋː ɸː hː ɰː ɰ̃ː ʁ̃ːɴ] may be palatalised
<CC>, <C'>
+ Internal gemination for [m n̪ ɲ ŋ j] <CC>
The high register is marked with an acute on the first vowel of the word, while the low register is left unmarked. Downstep is marked with a grave on the first affected vowel, unless the vowel is also high, in which case it's marked with a circumflex.

/˥jiãkɨkjꜜ ˥tɨt ˩ʟɛpãi ˥pɨꜜjɛkj ˩ti ˩kɔjꜜ ˥iɔꜜkij ˩tɨp ˥ʟɛꜜtãkj ˥pijtꜜ ʟij ˩jij ˥jɔã ˩pãjɔkitꜜ ˥jɛjkɔ ˥ʟɔjɛtkɔ ˥kɨʟuꜜtiʟ/
[i˩˦z̠ã˦˥ŋɨ̃˧ŋːʲ s̠is̠˦˧ ʟɛ˧βã˧ɲĩ˦˩ pi˧˥s̠ɛhːʲ˧ s̠i˧˩ kɞj˩˦ i˩˦z̠ɞ˦˥ki˧ s̠iɸ˧˩ ʟɛ˧˥t̪ãŋːʲ˧ pis̠˧˥ ʟi˧ i˧˩ jɞ˦ðã˦˧ pã˩˦j̃ɞ˧ŋis̠˦˥ jɛɪ̯˦kɔ˦˧ ʟɞ˦jɛs̪˦kɔ˦˧ kɨ˩˦ʟu˦˥s̠ɨɰ˧]
Ízangüng' sîs levanyi písèh' si koy îzokì sif letàng' pís lì i yóda pàyongis yêiko lóyesko kǘlusìg.
Zpaf kkuñb ñvneahttiñ wqxirftvn meof ñfañhsit.
Kkuñb ñvzxirf kvtañb kkuñf ñtmeaq sfañkqeanth.
Yvnmuq. Yvnmuq. Yvnmuq. Yvnmuq. Yvnmuq. Yvnmuq. Yvnmuq.
Travis B.
Posts: 7647
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Post by Travis B. »

I posted something in this thread about this language a while back, but I made you guys guess at the "right" analysis too much, so I am just going to give it as is:

/rihɑllæ kɑːfi/
[reˈhɑʎːɐ ˈkɑːɸe]

Consonants

/m n/ [m n~ɲ*~ŋ#~ɴ#]
/b d/ [b~β+ d̪~ð+~d*@~dz*~z*+]
/t k q/ [t̪~t*@~ts* c*~k k*~q]
/tʼ kʼ qʼ/ [t̪ʼ~tʼ*@~tsʼ* cʼ*~kʼ kʼ*~qʼ]
/f s χ h/ [f~ɸ+ s~ʃ* x*~χ ç*~h~ħ!]
/z ʁ/ [z~ʒ* ɣ*~ʁ]
/r l/ [r~ɾ+ l~ʎ*]
/w j/ [w j]

* Palatalized
+ Intervocalic (non-geminate)
! Specifically geminate
# Before homorganic consonants when not palatalized
@ Pre-consonantal (when palatalized)

All consonants that can undergo palatalization do so when the next vowel within the same phonological word is one of /i æ iː æː/ or they precede /j/ before the next vowel.

Note that the effects of uvular consonant phonemes on preceding vowels are dependent upon their phonemic rather than phonetic identities, e.g. [k] can behave both as a non-uvular and as a uvular consonant depending on whether or not it is palatalized.

Vowels

/i æ ɑ u/ [i~e+~e*~e*+ æ~ɑ+~ɐ*~ɑ*+ ɑ~ɑ+~ɐ*~ɑ*+ u~o+~o*~o*+]
/iː æː ɑː uː/ [iː~eː+~i*~e*+ æː~ɑː+~æ*~ɑ*+ ɑː~ɑː+~ɑ*~ɑ*+ uː~oː+~u*~o*+]

* Unstressed
+ Before uvular phonemes

Vowel-glide sequences before {C,#}

/æj ɑw/ [ɛː~ɛ* ɔː~ɔ*]
/æːj ɑːw/ [ɛːj~ɛj* ɔːw~ɔw*]

* Unstressed

Syllable structure

Syllables are CV(ː)(C)(C), except that the first syllable of a word can lack an onset. In cases where hiatus would occur, /j/ or /w/ is inserted depending on whether the following vowel phoneme is a front vowel phoneme or back vowel phoneme respectively. Geminates are permitted in all positions except initially, and all consonants can be geminate. The only restriction on consonant clusters is that /ChC/ and /Ch#/ are not permitted.

Stress

Stress is non-phonemic, and falls on the left-most heaviest of the last three syllables of a phonological word.

Example passage

/tihɑjlæbɑ mɑllɑ qʼɑrrɑtæ mɑːtijɑ sæ nitɑhulliti ʁæːwb/
/bɑtɑjisæjæ ʁæːwbin mɑːtɑ bæːtɑ kʼæsæjæ nitasærɑhliti mɑll/
/ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd/

[tseˈhɑjʎɐβɐ ˈmɑlːɐ ˈqʼɑrːɐtsɐ ˈmɑːtsejɐ ʃæ ɲet̪ɐˈhuʎːetse ɣæːwb]
[bɐt̪ɐˈjiʃɐjɐ ˈɣæːwben ˈmɑːt̪ɐ ˈbæːt̪ɐ ˈcʼæʃɐjɐ ɲet̪ɐʃɐˈɾɑçʎetse mɑlː]
[ɑˈqutd ‖ ɑˈqutd ‖ ɑˈqutd ‖ ɑˈqutd ‖ ɑˈqutd ‖ ɑˈqutd ‖ ɑˈqutd]

Note that in this example some of the phonemic analyses are morphologically-informed, i.e. if the words existed in isolation more than one phoneme could be assigned to a phone in certain places.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
Nortaneous
Posts: 1684
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:29 am

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Post by Nortaneous »

/m n/ <m n>
/b d/ <b d> + [β dz z] <v z z>
/t k q/ <t c/qu q> + [ts] <tz>
/tʼ kʼ qʼ/ <th ch/quh qh>
/f s χ h/ <f s x h>
/z ʁ/ <z g>
/r l/ <r l>
/w j/ <u i>

* Palatalized
+ Intervocalic (non-geminate)
! Specifically geminate
# Before homorganic consonants when not palatalized
@ Pre-consonantal (when palatalized)

All consonants that can undergo palatalization do so when the next vowel within the same phonological word is one of /i æ iː æː/ or they precede /j/ before the next vowel.

Note that the effects of uvular consonant phonemes on preceding vowels are dependent upon their phonemic rather than phonetic identities, e.g. [k] can behave both as a non-uvular and as a uvular consonant depending on whether or not it is palatalized.

Vowels

/i æ ɑ u/ <i e a o> + [e] <e>
/iː æː ɑː uː/ <ī ē ā ō> + [eː] <e>

/tihɑjlæbɑ mɑllɑ qʼɑrrɑtæ mɑːtijɑ sæ nitɑhulliti ʁæːwb/
/bɑtɑjisæjæ ʁæːwbin mɑːtɑ bæːtɑ kʼæsæjæ nitasærɑhliti mɑll/
/ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd/

Tzehailava malla qharratza mātzeia se netaholletze gēub.
Bataïsaia gēuben māta bēta chesaia netaserahletze mall.
Aqotd. Aqotd. Aqotd. Aqotd. Aqotd. Aqotd. Aqotd.
Duaj teibohnggoe kyoe' quaqtoeq lucj lhaj k'yoejdej noeyn tucj.
K'yoejdaq fohm q'ujdoe duaj teibohnggoen dlehq lucj.
Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq. Teijp'vq.
User avatar
/nɒtɛndəduːd/
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2025 7:47 pm
Location: not here

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Post by /nɒtɛndəduːd/ »

/rihɑllæ kɑːfi/
[reˈhɑʎːɐ ˈkɑːɸe]
rihallä kaafi

/m n/ <m n>
/b d/ <b d>
/t k q/ <t c q>
/t’ k’ q’/ <t’ k’ q’>
/f s χ h/ <f s x h>
/z ʁ/ <z g>
/r l/ <r l>
/w j/ /w y/

/i æ ɑ u/ <i ä a u>
/iː æː ɑː uː/ <ii ää aa uu>

/æj ɑw/ <äi au>

/tihɑjlæbɑ mɑllɑ qʼɑrrɑtæ mɑːtijɑ sæ nitɑhulliti ʁæːwb/
/bɑtɑjisæjæ ʁæːwbin mɑːtɑ bæːtɑ kʼæsæjæ nitasærɑhliti mɑll/
/ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd/

[tseˈhɑjʎɐβɐ ˈmɑlːɐ ˈqʼɑrːɐtsɐ ˈmɑːtsejɐ ʃæ ɲet̪ɐˈhuʎːetse ɣæːwb]
[bɐt̪ɐˈjiʃɐjɐ ˈɣæːwben ˈmɑːt̪ɐ ˈbæːt̪ɐ ˈcʼæʃɐjɐ ɲet̪ɐʃɐˈɾɑçʎetse mɑlː]
[ɑˈqutd ‖ ɑˈqutd ‖ ɑˈqutd ‖ ɑˈqutd ‖ ɑˈqutd ‖ ɑˈqutd ‖ ɑˈqutd]

tihayläba malla q’arratä maatiya sä nitahulliti gääwb.
batayisäyä gääwbin maata bääta k’äsäyä nitasärahliti mall.
aqutd, aqutd, aqutd, aqutd, aqutd, aqutd, aqutd.
<notenderdude>

So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. That is why it was called Babel—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. Genesis 11: 8-9a (NIV)
Travis B.
Posts: 7647
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:52 pm

Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0

Post by Travis B. »

Here is an alternative take on this language.

/rihɑllæ kɑːfi/
[reˈhɑʎːɐ ˈkɑːɸe]
Rehâllia cáfe

Consonants

/m n/ <m n>
/b d/ <b d> but [β dz z] <v dz z>
/t k q/ <t c/k q> but [ts] <cz>
/tʼ kʼ qʼ/ <th ch/kh qh> but [tsʼ] <czh>
/f s χ h/ <f s ch h> but [ʃ] <sz>
/z ʁ/ <z g>
/r l/ <r l>
/w j/ <u i>

Vowels

[i e ɛ æ ɐ ɑ ɔ o u] <i e ę ä ia/a â ǫ o u>
[iː eː ɛː æː ɑː ɔː oː uː] <í é è ê á ò ó ú>

[ɐ] is <a> after unpalatalized consonants and <ia> after palatalized consonants other than [dz z ts tsʼ ʃ]

/tihɑjlæbɑ mɑllɑ qʼɑrrɑtæ mɑːtijɑ sæ nitɑhulliti ʁæːwb/
/bɑtɑjisæjæ ʁæːwbin mɑːtɑ bæːtɑ kʼæsæjæ nitasærɑhliti mɑll/
/ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd ‖ ɑqutd/

[tseˈhɑjʎɐβɐ ˈmɑlːɐ ˈqʼɑrːɐtsɐ ˈmɑːtsejɐ ʃæ ɲet̪ɐˈhuʎːetse ɣæːwb]
[bɐt̪ɐˈjiʃɐjɐ ˈɣæːwben ˈmɑːt̪ɐ ˈbæːt̪ɐ ˈcʼæʃɐjɐ ɲet̪ɐʃɐˈɾɑçʎetse mɑlː]
[ɑˈqutd ‖ ɑˈqutd ‖ ɑˈqutd ‖ ɑˈqutd ‖ ɑˈqutd ‖ ɑˈqutd ‖ ɑˈqutd]

Czehâiliava mâlla qhârracza máczeia szä netahullecze gêub.
Bataiiszaia gêuben máta bêta chäszaia netaszarâhlecze mâll.
Âqutd. Âqutd. Âqutd. Âqutd. Âqutd. Âqutd. Âqutd.
Yaaludinuya siima d'at yiseka wohadetafa gaare.
Ennadinut'a gaare d'ate eetatadi siiman.
T'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa t'awraa.
Post Reply