Linguistic Miscellany Thread

[Travis B.]

The /a/ or /A/ phoneme (the "pot" vowel in nearly every North American dialect) is the closest thing to a "Continental A," so it does a lot of heavy lifting in loan words, just as the "cat" vowel does in most British dialects.

This is especially true in Inland North dialects, where the TRAP vowel has been raised/diphthongized, leaving the LOT vowel the only low unrounded vowel.

[dhok]

But there are some things we don't realize are American. The stereotype for Americans who go to Europe is that they can never find peanut butter. Peanut butter has started to spread to Europe, but I had a hard time finding beef jerky in Germany.

Root beer. Also Dr. Pepper. You can find Americans who don't like them, but to almost all non-Americans they're disgusting.

I've been in Vienna for about 24 hours, now, and I'm beginning to notice that Europeans occasionally seem to have unusual ideas of what Americans eat; for example, an "American candy" display at a shop here had a few usual suspects (Mike and Ikes, vanilla and cherry Coke) but also a jar of the inner filling of a Bounty bar turned into a Nutella-like spread for bread (without chocolate)--an abomination which I have never, ever seen Stateside.

[Vijay]

The /a/ or /A/ phoneme (the "pot" vowel in nearly every North American dialect) is the closest thing to a "Continental A," so it does a lot of heavy lifting in loan words, just as the "cat" vowel does in most British dialects.

I know that, but I've never heard of a /brɑt/ before.

[Nortaneous]

I've been in Vienna for about 24 hours, now, and I'm beginning to notice that Europeans occasionally seem to have unusual ideas of what Americans eat; for example, an "American candy" display at a shop here had a few usual suspects (Mike and Ikes, vanilla and cherry Coke) but also a jar of the inner filling of a Bounty bar turned into a Nutella-like spread for bread (without chocolate)--an abomination which I have never, ever seen Stateside.

why doesn't coconut spread exist

Americans shorten the word "bratwurst" to what?

We pronounce it /brɑt/ (no, not */bræt/), and we also use the term "bratwurst", which we pronounce /ˈbrɑtˌwɜrst/

cf. knockwurst < Knackwurst

[Zaarin]

But there are some things we don't realize are American. The stereotype for Americans who go to Europe is that they can never find peanut butter. Peanut butter has started to spread to Europe, but I had a hard time finding beef jerky in Germany.

Root beer. Also Dr. Pepper. You can find Americans who don't like them, but to almost all non-Americans they're disgusting.

I've been in Vienna for about 24 hours, now, and I'm beginning to notice that Europeans occasionally seem to have unusual ideas of what Americans eat; for example, an "American candy" display at a shop here had a few usual suspects (Mike and Ikes, vanilla and cherry Coke) but also a jar of the inner filling of a Bounty bar turned into a Nutella-like spread for bread (without chocolate)--an abomination which I have never, ever seen Stateside.

In a similar vein, when I was in South Korea in the late 90s a lot of street vendors took corn dogs, wrapped them in french fries, and deep fried them.

[Estav]

We pronounce it /brɑt/ (no, not */bræt/)

I've never heard of a /brɑt/ before.

It isn't always pronounced /brɑt/. I don't say the word that often, but I would say /bræt/, and that is listed as the only pronunciation in the American Heritage Dictionary and as the second pronunciation in Merriam-Webster. It would be interesting to see if there is some regional pattern to the use of the pronunciations /brɑt/ and /bræt/.

[MacAnDàil]

I had never heard of A&W's and had still not understood what 'root beer' referred to so I looked up both. It appears that A&w's is an American fast food chain that not only sells root beer, but also an ice cream-covered variant. And they manage to claim it's world-renowned. And I can't tell the difference between 'float' and 'freeze' from the description. And how to Americans feel about 'secret ingredients'? To me, it's suspicious.

[Estav]

I can't tell the difference between 'float' and 'freeze' from the description.

A float, as the name suggests, has ice cream floating on top of root beer. It might be the same ingredients as a "freeze", but it doesn't look like its the same texture, since the freeze seems to be blended into a more even consistency (similarly to a shake). The freeze has more calories, so it looks like it might also contain a higher ratio of ice cream to root beer.

And how do Americans feel about 'secret ingredients'? To me, it's suspicious.

In the context of something like a soft drink, I'd find it a bit odd to be suspicious. It's not something like meat or fresh vs. frozen food where there are common low-quality foods that people substitute for higher-quality foods of a similar nature. The ingredients are just flavorings, with the 'secrecy' supposedly being a method to guard the exact procedure for getting the flavor. If you like the flavor of the root beer, you're getting what you paid for. And in terms of health, it seems unlikely to me that there's any specific ingredient in the drink that is much more associated with health concerns than soda in general.

[Nortaneous]

I had never heard of A&W's and had still not understood what 'root beer' referred to so I looked up both. It appears that A&w's is an American fast food chain that not only sells root beer, but also an ice cream-covered variant. And they manage to claim it's world-renowned. And I can't tell the difference between 'float' and 'freeze' from the description. And how to Americans feel about 'secret ingredients'? To me, it's suspicious.

I didn't know they had restaurants, but they're a common brand of root beer.

A root beer float is what happens when you put a scoop of vanilla ice cream in a glass and then fill it with root beer. That's common in America. A root beer freeze is some A&W restaurant thing - probably what happens if you put a root beer float in a blender.

(wait til the elsewheristanis find out about egg creams)

[Pabappa]

i think the only ingredients that are allowed to be secret are fragrances, which .... theoretically someone could slip in a harmful-but-cheap chemical and call it a fragrance but I dont know if there's that much greed in the snakc food industry.

[Zaarin]

I had never heard of A&W's and had still not understood what 'root beer' referred to so I looked up both. It appears that A&w's is an American fast food chain that not only sells root beer, but also an ice cream-covered variant. And they manage to claim it's world-renowned. And I can't tell the difference between 'float' and 'freeze' from the description. And how to Americans feel about 'secret ingredients'? To me, it's suspicious.

Is root beer really an American thing? I had no idea, and I've lived outside the US (though I was quite young at the time). I guess that makes sense, though: root beer became a big thing during Prohibition when beer companies had to find a new product to make. I like root beer, but only good root beer, which means not made by big corporations like A&W.

i think the only ingredients that are allowed to be secret are fragrances, which .... theoretically someone could slip in a harmful-but-cheap chemical and call it a fragrance but I dont know if there's that much greed in the snakc food industry.

Dead customers are not returning customers.

[Travis B.]

I had never heard of A&W's and had still not understood what 'root beer' referred to so I looked up both. It appears that A&w's is an American fast food chain that not only sells root beer, but also an ice cream-covered variant. And they manage to claim it's world-renowned. And I can't tell the difference between 'float' and 'freeze' from the description. And how to Americans feel about 'secret ingredients'? To me, it's suspicious.

Is root beer really an American thing? I had no idea, and I've lived outside the US (though I was quite young at the time). I guess that makes sense, though: root beer became a big thing during Prohibition when beer companies had to find a new product to make. I like root beer, but only good root beer, which means not made by big corporations like A&W.

Probably the best root beer I've had is Sprecher root beer, and Sprecher is also a craft brewery in addition to a maker of sodas.

[MacAnDàil]

The snack industry that markets primarily for children sugary fatty foodstuffs containing sometimes potentially carcinogenic or hyperactivity-inducing additives?

Addicted customers are very much returning customers, even if they eventually become dead ones. Is the very existence of the tobacco industry due to much else?

[Raphael]

This is getting a bit of topic.

[MacAnDàil]

On-topic, are there are any other words in English that aren't of Welsh origin that follow Welsh orthography, like 'of' and 'off'?

[Vijay]

If of followed Welsh orthography, shouldn't it be pronounced /oːv/?

[Neon Fox]

If of followed Welsh orthography, shouldn't it be pronounced /oːv/?

I mean, it is though, the /f/ gets voiced in some environments.

[Vijay]

Yeah, but English doesn't have /oː/ in that word.

[holbuzvala]

I was speaking with someone this morning who said, "This happens when I've watched Russell Howard or Russell Kaye - by which I mean both, not that I can't remember which."

Got me thinking, are there languages that distinguish inclusive 'or' and exclusive 'or'? I feel there must be. And as a corollary to this, how would such a conjunction evolve? I know one common way of making 'exclusive or' is to conjoin a negating word/affix onto the conjunction 'and' (e.g. Moroccan Arabic: /wa/ = and; /laʔ/ = no, not; /'wallaː/ = or (excl.) ).

(2x Moroccan examples in sentences - 2nd is my favourite)

More: show

wash bghītī sh-shāī wallā l-qhwa ?
wash bghī-tī sh-shāī wallā l-qhwa ?
QUERY want.PST-2s DEF-tea OR DEF-coffee
Do you want tea or coffee?

wash ghādī ndīrū had shī wallā la' ?
QUERY FUT do.PRES.1p this thing OR NEG
Are we going to do this or not?

EDIT: Also, while the conjunctions for exclusive and inclusive 'or' may not evolve separately, what sorts of syntactic arrangements might be used to disambiguate them?

[KathTheDragon]

English has either... or, and I feel like some of the older IE languages have the equivalent of or... or.