Zompist Bboard Again

Oh, I've noticed that Donna Burke (an Australian) in interviews tends to say "accent" as [ɛk.sʌ̃(n)t̚], which sounds much nicer than when I say it, so I tend to associate [æ] > [ɛ] with Australia and New Zealand.

My /æ ɛ eɪ/ are typically compressed into a very small vowel space, being [ɛ] natively (although I picked up [i̯ɛ] from my ex), [ɜ̟] (though /ɛl/ is more centralized as [ɜɤ̯]) and [e̞] respectively. I would not be surprised if the dialect here in the future actually collapsed the distinction at least two of these three vowel phonemes in the future.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:42 pm Oh, I've noticed that Donna Burke (an Australian) in interviews tends to say "accent" as [ɛk.sʌ̃(n)t̚], which sounds much nicer than when I say it, so I tend to associate [æ] > [ɛ] with Australia and New Zealand.

Is that really with a back vowel?

(I ask because my dialect has true [ʌ] and it sounds nothing like [ɐ], which is commonly what people mean when they write "[ʌ]".)

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:10 pm Is that really with a back vowel?

(I ask because my dialect has true [ʌ] and it sounds nothing like [ɐ], which is commonly what people mean when they write "[ʌ]".)

I have trouble perceiving the difference between [ʌ] and [ə] (even with an audio sample, it's hard to hear the difference; for me, at least), so it's possible it was just a schwa that sounded a bit more emphasised than I would normally make it, but it certainly wasn't [ɐ] (I think that's mostly a UK thing); I can tell the difference between [ʌ] (which I have, if the Wikipedia audio samples are correct) and [ɐ] (which, if I were to approximate it in my English, would end up with the "cot-caught-father-bother" vowel, not the "cut"-vowel, which I don't perceive as [a]-like, but rather as [ə ɜ ø]-like). It was either back or very central, and not low-open-mid, though. I think I might maybe have an odd way of perceiving and mentally classifying vowels, now that I articulate all that.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:59 pmI often confuse /æ ɛ/ when I hear other people speak

I know how that feels. As a non-native speaker of a language that doesn't have /æ/ (Dutch), /æ/ maps to /ɛ/. Difficult to hear the difference, and difficult to keep it in mind while pronouncing. So often I start to write "exce..." when I have to correct myself to "accept". In fact, a well-know Dutch internet provider calls itself "XS4ALL", which is meant to be "access for all" (but now reads "excess for all")...


JAL

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:42 pm Oh, I've noticed that Donna Burke (an Australian) in interviews tends to say "accent" as [ɛk.sʌ̃(n)t̚], which sounds much nicer than when I say it, so I tend to associate [æ] > [ɛ] with Australia and New Zealand.

NZE raises TRAP (typical realisation: [ɛ]), but it also raises DRESS (typical realisation: [e]), so the two remain reasonably distinct within a single idiolect. If you've got multiple speakers, things get more difficult; the amount of raising that TRAP and DRESS undergo varies quite a bit sociolectally, so one person's TRAP can sound like another's DRESS and vice versa. AusE is a whole 'nother can of worms; I don't feel qualified enough to really go into it.

jal wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:46 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:59 pmI often confuse /æ ɛ/ when I hear other people speak

I know how that feels. As a non-native speaker of a language that doesn't have /æ/ (Dutch), /æ/ maps to /ɛ/. Difficult to hear the difference, and difficult to keep it in mind while pronouncing. So often I start to write "exce..." when I have to correct myself to "accept". In fact, a well-know Dutch internet provider calls itself "XS4ALL", which is meant to be "access for all" (but now reads "excess for all")...

I am the opposite way around; other people's /ɛ/ often maps to my /æ/ but I practically never hear other people's /æ/ as my /ɛ/, because I hear anything from [æ] to [iɛ] as /æ/ but /ɛ/ to me is always an at least lightly centralized open-mid vowel (and the centralization is the key difference between my own /æ/ and /ɛ/ most of the time).

I have just heard [tɕʰəːˈʁˤɛ̃tʃəːɰəː] unelicited in the wild (from my daughter, she wants one as a pet) complete with initial alveolopalatal affricate.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:38 pmI have just heard [tɕʰəːˈʁˤɛ̃tʃəːɰəː] unelicited in the wild (from my daughter, she wants one as a pet) complete with initial alveolopalatal affricate.

I haven't got a clue what that is supposed to be... :D


JAL

jal wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:35 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:38 pmI have just heard [tɕʰəːˈʁˤɛ̃tʃəːɰəː] unelicited in the wild (from my daughter, she wants one as a pet) complete with initial alveolopalatal affricate.

I haven't got a clue what that is supposed to be...

Tarantula, I’m guessing.

bradrn wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:52 am

jal wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:35 am

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:38 pmI have just heard [tɕʰəːˈʁˤɛ̃tʃəːɰəː] unelicited in the wild (from my daughter, she wants one as a pet) complete with initial alveolopalatal affricate.

I haven't got a clue what that is supposed to be...

Tarantula, I’m guessing.

Yep.

It took me a moment to figure it out, too.

It is one of the odder pronunciations in my dialect. (Of course in more formal speech one typically does not affricate the initial /t/, even though it tends to be at least a bit palatalized.)

Is your [ʁ] a fricative or an approximant?

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:35 am Is your [ʁ] a fricative or an approximant?

It is a pharyngealized uvular approximant, aka a "bunched r".

How do you pronounce "idea"? I am American and I pronounce it with two syllables. The last syllable sounds like a nonrhotic pronunciation of the word "dear".

Space60 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:58 pm How do you pronounce "idea"? I am American and I pronounce it with two syllables. The last syllable sounds like a nonrhotic pronunciation of the word "dear".

three syllables for me but two is well enough attested that Shavian has a single letter for /iːə/

Space60 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 19, 2021 4:58 pm How do you pronounce "idea"? I am American and I pronounce it with two syllables. The last syllable sounds like a nonrhotic pronunciation of the word "dear".

[ɑ͡iˈdi.ɐ] — the last two syllables are homophonous with dear [ˈdi.ɐ]

[ɑe̯ˈdɪː] before a consonant
[ɑe̯ˈdɪːɹ] before a vowel
[ɑe̯ˈdɪɐ̯] pre-pausa

Trisyllabic, as [aːe̯.ˈdiː.ə(ː)]