Zompist Bboard Again

In real life, I am a staunch defender of the metric system. But even I have to admit that it sounds out of place in a heroic fantasy setting. When I'm the GM in a Dungeons & Dragons game, I'm a bit iffy about using metric units, at least when speaking in-character as an NPC.

Since the original English-language D&D books use American customary units, I will continue to use them with my English-language group, even though I never do in real life. I use slightly rounded values: a US foot is actually 30.48 cm, but I will assume it is exactly 30 cm instead. Most translations of D&D books use metric units with this simplified conversion rate.

Here are a few other units that I will occasionally use. Most of my players aren't used to US units, so I've given them simple metric values. These units are supposed to be plausible, but do not make a coherent system. Don't ask me how many inches there are in a furlong, that's not the point.

Length

Line: 2 mm (about 1/12 inch)
Inch: 2.5 cm
Palm: 10 mm (4 inches)
Foot: 30 cm
Cubit: 50 cm
Step: 1.5 m (%)
Furlong: 200 m
Mile: 1.6 km
League: 4 km (2.5 miles)

(%) D&D rules often reference the "5-foot step", and the combat grid has 5-foot squares.

Areas

Square foot: 0,09 m2
Rood: 56 m2 = 5x5 steps
Acre: 0,4 ha = 1 furlong x 1 chain (=20 m)

Volumes

Ounce: 30 mL
Pint: 500 mL
Gallon: 4 L
Bushel: 40 L
Muid: 2 m3

Weights

Grain: 50 mg = 1/20 g
Penny: 1 g
Ounce: 30 g
Pound: 500 g

yes, the united states of america has not entirely fallen into the international system,
and with it its cultural productions...
that is soft power...

but while this may seem exotic to people living under the yoke of the French revolution,
it's a bit simple for a middle-aged world where measures had to abound
and vary from one village to another,
and even from one trade to another,
if not from one craftsman to another...

Well, yes, I know that units of measure varied a lot during the Middle Ages. And, of course, their values didn't neatly convert to metric units The goal is to have a somewhat plausible system while keeping conversions easy.

It depends on whether you want people to understand the measures you give
or whether you want to plunge players into an exotic world...

but here the risk is less costly than the conversion errors with the imperial system
that went all the way to the planet Mars...

Ryusenshi wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 3:13 amI use slightly rounded values: a US foot is actually 30.48 cm, but I will assume it is exactly 30 cm instead. Most translations of D&D books use metric units with this simplified conversion rate.

Here are a few other units that I will occasionally use. Most of my players aren't used to US units, so I've given them simple metric values. These units are supposed to be plausible, but do not make a coherent system. Don't ask me how many inches there are in a furlong, that's not the point.

Length

Line: 2 mm (about 1/12 inch)
Inch: 2.5 cm
Palm: 10 mm (4 inches)
Foot: 30 cm
Cubit: 50 cm
Step: 1.5 m (%)
Furlong: 200 m
Mile: 1.6 km
League: 4 km (2.5 miles)

(%) D&D rules often reference the "5-foot step", and the combat grid has 5-foot squares.

Most of those are the rough approximations I use inside my head when I have to do "not perfect but good enough" conversions, too (e. g. when reading an English-language book).

Aren't 500 g already an "unofficial metric pound", in France, in Germany, and in some other places as well?

Raphael wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 12:48 pm Aren't 500 g already an "unofficial metric pound", in France, in Germany, and in some other places as well?

Indeed. I've heard old people talk about a "half-pound" of butter, weighing 250 g. People also drink "pints" of beer, i.e. metric pints of 500 mL.

revolutionary single-mindedness is gaining ground...
(without even a Napoleon as a model...)

Ryusenshi wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 3:13 am

Units for a medieval fantasy world

In real life, I am a staunch defender of the metric system. But even I have to admit that it sounds out of place in a heroic fantasy setting. When I'm the GM in a Dungeons & Dragons game, I'm a bit iffy about using metric units, at least when speaking in-character as an NPC.

Since the original English-language D&D books use American customary units, I will continue to use them with my English-language group, even though I never do in real life. I use slightly rounded values: a US foot is actually 30.48 cm, but I will assume it is exactly 30 cm instead. Most translations of D&D books use metric units with this simplified conversion rate.

Here are a few other units that I will occasionally use. Most of my players aren't used to US units, so I've given them simple metric values. These units are supposed to be plausible, but do not make a coherent system. Don't ask me how many inches there are in a furlong, that's not the point.

Does non-heroic fantasy use metric?

foxcatdog wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 8:32 pm Does non-heroic fantasy use metric?

Well... The metric system makes more sense in an urban fantasy setting, since the genre is based on the present. Vampire fiction, or werewolf fiction, or something like Harry Potter. The metric system could also be used for anything futuristic, even with fantasy elements: in space (à la Star Wars) or cyberpunk (Shadowrun).

Raphael wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 12:48 pmAren't 500 g already an "unofficial metric pound", in France, in Germany, and in some other places as well?

I used to buy "een pond" of things in Belgium forty years ago.

Ryusenshi wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 3:13 am In real life, I am a staunch defender of the metric system. But even I have to admit that it sounds out of place in a heroic fantasy setting. When I'm the GM in a Dungeons & Dragons game, I'm a bit iffy about using metric units, at least when speaking in-character as an NPC.

That's not all that surprising if you consider that the metric system was introduced by Napoleon, alongside the ten-day week.

BTW: It's been a long, long, long time since I last played D&D. Back then we called it a "Dungeon Master", or DM; is there a subtle difference between this and "GM"?

Ryusenshi wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 3:13 amSince the original English-language D&D books use American customary units,

These are properly known as "Imperial units"; they've been "customary" in Britain until quite recently. Even now we have people claiming that the metric system is an EU plot to eradicate Britishness.

Dunno but its still referred to as DM in such rulebooks as the players handbook and the rather useless and also aptly named dungeon masters guide.

alice wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:14 am

Ryusenshi wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 3:13 amSince the original English-language D&D books use American customary units,

These are properly known as "Imperial units"; they've been "customary" in Britain until quite recently.

Well, to be pedantic, US customary units and Imperial units are not the same. Feet, yards, and miles are the same in both systems, but pints and gallons have different volumes. I dunno about other units.

alice wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:14 am That's not all that surprising if you consider that the metric system was introduced by Napoleon, alongside the ten-day week.

To be precise, it was introduced during the French revolution. Napoleon himself was quite reluctant to adopt the system, and in fact slowed down its adoption.

alice wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:14 am BTW: It's been a long, long, long time since I last played D&D. Back then we called it a "Dungeon Master", or DM; is there a subtle difference between this and "GM"?

The phrase "Dungeon Master" is only used in D&D, and is in fact trademarked (or so they claim). Other tabletop RPG's use the more generic expression "Game Master" or GM. After all, not every RPG actually features dungeons. Other than that, they are interchangeable.

alice wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:14 am These are properly known as "Imperial units"; they've been "customary" in Britain until quite recently. Even now we have people claiming that the metric system is an EU plot to eradicate Britishness.

Well, yes, but actually no. There are slight differences between the "Imperial" system and the US system. For example, the Imperial gallon is about 4.5 L while the US gallon is 3.8 L. Admittedly, it doesn't make much difference for my purposes since I've rounded everything.

Ryusenshi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 4:08 am

alice wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:14 am That's not all that surprising if you consider that the metric system was introduced by Napoleon, alongside the ten-day week.

To be precise, it was introduced during the French revolution. Napoleon himself was quite reluctant to adopt the system, and in fact slowed down its adoption.

I don't think Napoleon was that big on the ten-day week, either. He seems to have been a lot into repairing relations with the Church after the rupture of the revolutionary years.

Ryusenshi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 4:08 am

alice wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:14 am That's not all that surprising if you consider that the metric system was introduced by Napoleon, alongside the ten-day week.

To be precise, it was introduced during the French revolution. Napoleon himself was quite reluctant to adopt the system, and in fact slowed down its adoption.

alice is enlightened.

Ryusenshi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 4:08 am

alice wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:14 am BTW: It's been a long, long, long time since I last played D&D. Back then we called it a "Dungeon Master", or DM; is there a subtle difference between this and "GM"?

The phrase "Dungeon Master" is only used in D&D, and is in fact trademarked (or so they claim). Other tabletop RPG's use the more generic expression "Game Master" or GM. After all, not every RPG actually features dungeons. Other than that, they are interchangeable.

alice is further enlightened!

Ryusenshi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 4:08 am

alice wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:14 am These are properly known as "Imperial units"; they've been "customary" in Britain until quite recently. Even now we have people claiming that the metric system is an EU plot to eradicate Britishness.

Well, yes, but actually no. There are slight differences between the "Imperial" system and the US system. For example, the Imperial gallon is about 4.5 L while the US gallon is 3.8 L. Admittedly, it doesn't make much difference for my purposes since I've rounded everything.

IIRC that's lowercase 'l', and should be dm³ for precision work But yes, an Imperial gallon is 20 fluid ounces, while a US one is 16. Everything's bigger in America!

xxx wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 11:38 pm
a conlang is an egg incubated in your head waiting to hatch out into the world to make its twitter heard...

Neat!

Niiiice!!!

alice wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 3:09 am

Raphael wrote: ↑Sun Jul 16, 2023 12:48 pmAren't 500 g already an "unofficial metric pound", in France, in Germany, and in some other places as well?

I used to buy "een pond" of things in Belgium forty years ago.

There's also the "ons" in the Nether Regions Netherlands and "etto" in Italy, which are 100 grams.

alice wrote: ↑Mon Jul 17, 2023 9:26 am IIRC that's lowercase 'l', and should be dm³ for precision work :-) But yes, an Imperial gallon is 20 fluid ounces, while a US one is 16. Everything's bigger in America!

The upper- and lowercase l usage is something that's inconsistent, even in Science. A lot of chemists I know use uppercase; I, as a physicist, use lowercase. But, indeed, that was confusing to me when I lived in the UK: the British/Imperial pint was not the same as a US pint, and the fluid ounces also are different! Though that's really the only main difference: weight and length units are identical, but the applications are not. (The UK uses stone and pounds, while the US only uses pounds; likewise, the UK often uses miles and yards on roadways, while the US uses miles and feet.)