Zompist Bboard Again

Man in Space wrote: ↑Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:31 pm And now, a Tim Ar idiom.

tëg mûr

tëg

kick

mûr

tree

'to kick a tree'

tëg umír

tëg

kick

/mûr

tree/PL

'to kick trees'

thats a fun idiom (and cool class examples)

going to guess Minecraft isn't as big there as it is here?

(unless "to hit a tree" is a euphemism for playing Minecraft or games in general)
(sorry)

keenir wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:06 amthats a fun idiom (and cool class examples)

Thank you!

keenir wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:06 amgoing to guess Minecraft isn't as big there as it is here?

You would be correct in this assertion.



A (slightly outdated) test of Kgáweq’ script. I owe a large debt of thanks to xvedejas, from whom I originally commissioned the script—though it is by far not the same; it doesn't repeat the original, but it rhymes. What you're seeing up there is fully pointed; surprisingly, the swooshes hang on longer than the vowel marks because they tell you when a consonant is part of a cluster (there's an inherent vowel, specifically ʌ, that would otherwise not be cancelled out). Much as in Arabic, you don't see the dots (or even the swooshes) much outside of art, calligraphy, kids' books, and learners' materials. The bar at the top indicates stress and creaky voice and is mandatory even if the other elements are omitted.

Kgáweq’ language and script, from a meta perspective, is also supposed to be conservative enough that the various dialects can still properly interpret and pronounce it as written (i.e., very simple and regular sound changes), albeit possibly with considerable difficulty.

Some preliminary work on CT Hieroglyphs:

From a purely "I don't know art, but I know what I like" perspective, those notes sure look nice!

I very much like what I see.

Likewise. Those are some real nice hieroglyphs.

masako wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 5:49 pmI very much like what I see.

Ares Land wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:02 amLikewise. Those are some real nice hieroglyphs.

Thank you very much!

--------------------------------

So now we will get onto a religion from Terhír, tentatively called tezúng [tɛθuːk] (yes, that spelling is intentional).

Adherents of tezúng form a significant religious presence in the Ñar Toler Canà. You can generally tell them by the sacred scarification they undergo; they scar an "X"-shape into the back of the hands.

You might be surprised to learn that, according to tezúng, there are some supernatural beings (either ambivalent or beneficial; oddly enough, they don't seem to be outright malicious—evil was a creation of the adasar), but there is no afterlife. Murder is seen as the ultimate sin—you only get one shot, or so they say, and killing deprives others of that, so you had better avoid unjustly killing.

Speaking of, instead of seven deadly sins, they have five:

- Deceit
- Pride
- Despair (might better be termed "pessimism"?)
- Irresponsibility
- Malice

Each has an opposed virtue:

- Honesty
- Tolerance
- Joy
- Diligence
- Selflessness

This is incidentally the origin of the scarification—it was at first a symbol of honesty in the face of adversity when they were under persecution. This dedication to honesty has its problems as it is practiced to a fault. Tezúngites tend to be bluntly and brutally honest, but are never seen in, say, espionage or undercover operations (if you asked one if they were a cop, they would say yes).

Tezúngites are really into tolerance. Located as they are in the heart of Terhír, this causes no end of difficulties for them because they respect all ethnic groups, many beliefs, and, worst of all, men. (Terhír is south of the Messerini line; cultures there are given to matriarchy.)

Tezúngites tend to be heavy drug users. Functional alcoholism is not uncommon amongst them, for instance—they would not partake on the clock (diligence and selflessness, after all), but in the absence of other obligations they don't see why not. They do come under a lot of pressure because respect for authority isn't among their virtues—indeed, disobedience to governments is often construed as selflessness, especially in regards to injustices real or perceived—and some places don't look kindly upon drug users. Taken to extremes, as many things are on Íröd, there are basically religious zealot narcos in the Lé Mêĝ.

Tezúngites are also into free love, a tendency that causes no end of bureaucratic nightmares. They recognize no marriage rites; monogamy/exclusivity, while not promoted, is not required or expected. Children are often raised by the mother alone.

Nice! Shouldn't the opposite of 'despair' be 'hope' though?

Ares Land wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:50 am Nice! Shouldn't the opposite of 'despair' be 'hope' though?

Perhaps. I suppose the concepts don't quite line up, though.

--------------------------------

I'd like to go into more detail about the Messerini line, lest people get the wrong impression.

Above the line, cultures tend to be oriented towards patriarchy; below it, you generally find matriarchies. How rabidly partisan a given culture is can vary, and the line is not an inviolate rule, but in general it's useful as a good first approximation. The line is not a political boundary per se; it runs across the mainland somewhat diagonally from upper right to lower left and in parts aligns with the River Sobadegh. The names of two of the major "continents"—the mainland is a supercontinent and the situation is similar to how Europe and Asia are considered separate continents—are a direct result of the politics of the line: Maranhír, where the Tim Ar are mostly situated, literally means "man's land", whereas the eastern subdivision, where the Tlar Kyanà may be found, is Tethír, which literally means "woman's land".

The Tim Ar, being testosterone-poisoned Manly Men™, are mostly found north of it; the main exception to their patriarchy, the Banner of Wur Jara (Ninraḫ n Uúr Tára, home of the Fighting Women of Wur Jara), lies to the south of the Sobadegh and is a whole other story, but there are a few other holdings that are also south of the line. The Tlar Kyanà, being militant feminists, are almost entirely south of it in Tethír. The Confederation of the Violet Sun (Úh Tüg m Hagkün Hún), which as a matter of pragmatics is more egalitarian, straddles the line.

This differing regard for the sexes is a significant driver of the political tensions between the three groups. The CVS was itself formed as a result of the TAE and STK being at each other's throats—the enemy of my enemy is my friend, after all. It's kind of like how the Third World formed as a response to the West vs. the Soviet bloc.

--------------------------------

Speaking of Tethir, Terhír is now known as Tethír; this is a slightly archaic compound (if it were a contemporaneous compound you'd expect to see *Terhír)

--------------------------------

I should mention a few more things about tezúng.

- Public displays of affection are taboo in many schools of tezúng—though not all. Expressing approval of one's partner or family is not forbidden, and is actually encouraged, but things like kisses or hugs or hand-holding are considered best reserved for nonpublic venues.
- When a woman turns 21, she is considered to have come of age. As is tradition, the local clergy will prepare a sort of scavenger hunt for the celebrant; upon completion, she is considered to be fully adult.
- Clergy tend to live either opulent or ascetic lives; this differs between schools. Celibacy is, however, required of clergy (they channel their sexual energies into the spiritual realm, or so they say); infertile women tend to become clergy with somewhat more frequency.

--------------------------------

The star of twenty points is another religion you find south of the Messerini line (and, perhaps surprisingly, in some parts of the Tim Ar Empire). A calling card of Dujajikiswa culture, the star of twenty points is the official religion of the Banner of Wur Jara and has significant influence within the Dujajikiswa cultural sphere. It's even crept somewhat beyond that, as the Kgáweq' could tell you.

There are various goddesses (but no gods)—the prime goddesses are those embodying victory, abundance, death, the hearth, summer, and strength. There is also, perhaps unusually, a goddess for graves and tumuli specifically, who is basically personified as a harmless old caretaker lady. They are considered to occasionally descend to the land of the living in mortal form, and there are a few who were mortals deified after death (basically they were so morally good, pure, and/or influential that the universe wouldn't let them not ascend). Clergy of the twenty-pointed star are universally female and not only see to the spiritual issues of their congregants but are also frequently employed as judges and arbitrators.

There are six major holidays, each lasting a full nine-day week. These are generally somber occasions that call for fasting, self-denial, self-harm, and administration of amphetamines; more than one war has been decided because it managed to run over into one of these holidays and the adherent soldiers utterly annihilated their opposition.

A coming-of-age ritual occurs at age twenty, usually involving some sort of public ceremony. These are often applied to entire age cohorts and generally occur around the holidays.

The goddess of death is believed to have been the origin of mortals, giving her flesh and blood to create them. She also figured out that parthenogenesis is not biologically possible for the adasar, so she created men as kind of an afterthought. The reason everybody dies is because they originated from the goddess of death, so naturally that means that anything she makes will die too. Ultimately, their cosmology holds that the universe will basically eventually end up in a null state when all the goddesses are swallowed up in death, including death herself.

In attempting to redo O, I came across a word I liked, *bɛʔe 'person'. I like the sound of "Beheic" better than "Tim Ar-O", and I'm inclined to apply "Beheic" as its own term as I've decided it's sort of a Nostratic for Íröd. So I'm weighing whether to change it to "Proto-Beheic" and speak of the "Beheic languages".

----------------------------------------------------------------

O kind of sucks in its present state. Let's try something else…

Proto-O was the result of a nine-phoneme challenge on the old ZBB. I've since created a conlang with less phonemes (eight, to be precise; it's Təmattwəspwaypksma), so I feel better about adding to PO. Therefore, I've added *ʔ and *m.

/*m *n *p *t *k *ʔ *w *y *r *h *e/ (*y *r /j ʁ/)

As a reminder, here's the phonology of Proto-Tim Ar-O:

*m *n *ŋ
*p *b *t̪ *d̪ *t *d *tʲ *dʲ *k *g *q *ɢ *ʔ
*θ *s *ʃ *x *χ
*ɬ
*ð *ɹ *j *w *ʁ
*l

Vowels: *a *ɛ *e *i *ɔ *o *u
Diphthongs: *ia *iɛ *ie *iɔ *io

Proto-Tim Ar-O to Proto-O Lexurgy Data


*kamir 'city' → *kemu
*bɛʔe 'person' → *we
*tʲem 'long-lasting' → *hem 'durable'
*tʲiem → *hyem
*t̪ed̪iʔuʁ 'scorpion' → *teta
*liʔam 'to take' → *nʔam 'to retrieve, to bring back'
*karage → *kaʔke
*dnatu → *tnas
*nagwo → *ntsyu
*trangin → *trenin
*t̪rwat → *tayas

I'm attempting to figure out what the function of the Proto-Beheic *e-infix was. It survives in Proto-O as the *e-infix, but even there I have conflicting/contradictory information: It was either related to nominalizing verbs or some sort of participancy/valency marker—it showed up in the nominative and the benefactive, but not the accusative. It atrophied almost entirely in CT, though I may have to revise that (and it would become an i-infix if so). If it had some sort of deverbal function, it could (presumably) change into a definite marker and/or an accusative.

Reimagining Wokratak yet again. Many, many thanks to Azhoh.
Present stem: CVCC-
Past stem: -CCVC

√krt 'command, order' > karti 'I do not order', kirti 'I order', sikrit 'I ordered', sikrat 'I did not order'

Phonology

*m *n *ŋ
*p *b *ɓ *t *d *ɖ *k *g *ɠ *q *ʔ
*s *h
*ɬ
*r
*l *y *w

*a *a: *i *i:

Syllable structure

Archaic Wakiritaʔ syllable structure was of the form CV(:/ʔ)(C).

Root structure constraints

The prototypical root consists of three consonant phonemes.
- C₁ and C₂ may be the same; C₂ and C₃ may also be the same. C₁ may not equal C₃. (There is one exception: The root *√www ‘spin, weave’ is valid.)
- Consecutive stops may not be of unlike aspiration or voicing.
- *l *ɬ do not occur in roots with *s or *r.

Basic verbs

So each verb has two stems: A present stem and a past stem. These are generally of the form *CVCC and *CCVC, respectively. If V is *i, the verb is affirmed; if it's *a, the verb is negated.
Adding certain prefixes gets you lexical items:

*wa- persons
*i:- places
*ʔay- yellow plants
*pa- black plants
*ya:- tool
*ʔaw- substance/worked

*i:-wiʔwayiwaʔ

*√krt 'command, order, charge, duty'
*√pht 'die'

So apparently now both the hieroglyphics and cuneiform modes will be in use for CT. Here's how.

The OG Tim Ar script is the hieroglyphs, but those were incredibly restricted, mainly for government purposes. I don't know if it was via some defector scribe or if someone on their own initiative threw it together, but a "vernacular" cuneiform developed that was largely unrelated to the hieroglyphs. Eventually it got to the point where some places used one, some places used the other, and some places used both side-by-side in different applications.

Then came the Kên (= Caber) Dynasties, who replaced CT with various Caber idioms. For one reason or another, CT fell out of relevance for over a millennium.

Bleffys Udd then employed CT as a unifying force when he reconstituted and expanded the empire and its use has stuck ever since…though it should be noted that he mandated that the hieroglyphs had legal force over the cuneiform, if a conflict ever were to arise.

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 1:39 am Bleffys Udd

Are they con-Welsh?

Travis B. wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:32 pm

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 1:39 amBleffys Udd

Are they con-Welsh?

No, it's more that it's a convenient romanization for the phonological thought in my head. I do that a lot—get things that sound really cool in my head, and then I get attached to them, and then I have to find a way to spell them. Which is crappy when I have to redo a spelling or word shape I'm attached to because the conlang I had to cobble together for it so dictated.

For the record, in CT that became Mléhis Úd /m̩léhìs úθ/.

The planets in the Írödian system are named, in CT, after personal attributes or characteristics:

0.45 AU – Tahkë (introversion)
0.8 AU – Íröd (that just means 'ground'; it's the odd one out, for obvious reasons)
1.14 AU – Tuhêge (attention-seeking)
1.8 AU – Lohsi (extraversion)
3.2 AU – Łe n Edar (asteroid belt; lit. 'river of thoughts/ideas' < plural of dehr 'to think')

When they discovered planets around the Xi Boötis B, they kept the theme:

0.04 AU – Náirad (wisdom, street smarts)
0.95 AU – Kôl (intelligence, book smarts)

Xi Boötis A is just Hagkün 'sun'. Xi Boötis B is Hadál Iénhu n Taád 'King-of-the-Sky'.

The twin moons of Íröd are Hö Éĝris ('older brother'; larger, farther out) and Hö Mïsteḫ ('younger brother'; smaller, closer in).

As you might guess, dehr 'idea' also means 'asteroid', and hö 'brother' is also used with the meaning 'moon, natural satellite'.

I would like to propose the following Easter eggs for CT in acknowledgement of those who have provided me feedback and support on the ZBB; many of these are due to this thread (either by dint of having posted or because they run/facilitate the board). I say "propose" because I would like to ask if anybody objects.

ares plot of land, parcel of land, property, premises (Ares Land)
diú to relay information, to pass along word (Zju, participant in the latest Akana relay)
dóg arena, coliseum (dhok's old nickname, dhokarena56)
dom angry, upset, pissed (zompist)
drí to steal (foxcatdog, f/k/a thethief3)
ea alms, offering, donation (Almea)
hamaha reversed/mirror image (pabappa, per this post)
ḫuí dark, low-light (SquiDark)
íángo mathematics (Janko Gorenc)
iörge elf-equivalent mythological creature (WeepingElf)
ír keen, honed, talented (keenir)
kéd to oversee, to moderate, to intervene, to keep the peace (cedh)
kuáín ancient Tim Ar coin (Qwynegold)
kułig title of nobility, elite soldier (Kuchigakatai, f/k/a Ser)
líĝuó boy, male child (Linguoboy)
łar visa, passport; permissions; (academic) grant, financial support for education or research (doctor shark)
łaríhka currency (doctor shark again)
masáhko halo, ring; Sun dog (masako, who worked on the conlang for the Halo series)
medrú to request updates on/about, to subscribe, to follow (mèþru, per this post)
mradrn mustard plant (bradrn, programmer of the Brassica SCA)
rahaél to observe (Raphael)
ráhis forth, forward, onward, out (Travis B., programmer of zeptoforth)
riúłi soldier trained to fight on the back of a ho'mount; (later) driver, pilot (< 'soldier employed to drive a vehicle') (Rounin Ryuuji)
samer instructor, teacher, lector (ProfSaber)
sasaha script, writing system, writing convention; spelling (sasaha, per this post)
uílige bear (Vilike)

There are four main ways to write CT (the "four modes", Höhsë ü gûrn Ahsaha), divisible into two pairs (eastalri, sg. gestalri):

Gestalri n ḫisí (image-based)
Sasaha n orón (color mode) – The OG system of Tim Ar writing, which saw a revival when Bleffys Udd came around and reëstablished the empire. Sort of like Aztec hieroglyphs; color is meaningful and everything is little stylized drawings. Supplanted by other scripts and modes back in the day, it has seen a resurgence as a sort of blend of visual art, graphic design, calligraphy, and floriography.
Sasaha n maḫneḫ (hieroglyphic mode) – Your bog-standard hieroglyphics. Black-and-white. Essentially Egyptian with the serial glyphs filed off.

Gestalri n oisog (cuneiform-based)
Sasaha n Atki (Atskian mode) – Some upstart named Atki is credited with creating this in frustration after the eastalri n ḫisí were reserved for the upper crust. Originated from Monumental Khaya hieroglyphic phonetic complements.
Sasaha n Lemhár (Levarian mode) – Sort of a calligraphic or stylized version of Atskian mode. No horizontal lines, and lines are canted by 30° from horizontal (left-to-upper-right diagonal), with individual blocks kind of sideways-stacked—think something like "////" for the layout, though each slash/block is much less vertical.

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 1:14 pm Sasaha n Lemhár (Levarian mode) – Sort of a calligraphic or stylized version of Atskian mode. No horizontal lines, and lines are canted by 30° from horizontal (left-to-upper-right diagonal), with individual blocks kind of sideways-stacked—think something like "////" for the layout, though each slash/block is much less vertical.

Was this written on palm leaves?

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:59 am I would like to propose the following Easter eggs for CT in acknowledgement of those who have provided me feedback and support on the ZBB...

This is very sweet of you.