Zompist Bboard Again

Raphael wrote: ↑Fri Mar 28, 2025 5:13 pmCompletely ridiculous. Everything in human life had some horrible people among the people involved in its development. The point is neither striking nor damning.

Let me clarify that I don't necessarily consider this proof that computers are inherently evil and that we ought to junk them immediately. That would constitute the genetic fallacy after all, admittedly a common pitfall for leftists. Nonetheless this goes beyond one nasty individual in an otherwise benign field. Babbage pretty much invented the concept of computers as we know them for explicitly malign reasons. Whether rationally or not, it does make me somewhat uncomfortable with computers.

keenir wrote: ↑Fri Mar 28, 2025 4:25 pmrich people can fund both sides. this is not anything new -- Jefferson would have been familiar with the behavior.

The rich people in tech are doing Nazi salutes on stage while showering millions on right wing political campaigns. They certainly aren't funding the other side of the political spectrum.

also, we've noticed connections, yes; we just don't lie down in traffic waiting for the T-800s to march over us.

I also urge resistance, but often feels like people (especially here) don't understand the danger. Far too many people dismiss AI as smoke and mirrors or imagine that oligarchs will give us UBI after machines have eliminated our jobs.

malloc wrote: ↑Fri Mar 28, 2025 5:49 pm Babbage pretty much invented the concept of computers as we know them

Not really; IIRC, his ideas were mostly forgotten for a while, and then later redeveloped by others.

More generally, I'd say how much bad historical influences damn something depends on to which extent it has what might be called "intellectual content". I wouldn't want to follow a philosophy that was invented by a fascist, but if I would learn tomorrow that the inventor of the ballpoint pen was a fascist, that wouldn't make me stop using ballpoint pens. IMO, an AI is, in that context, closer to a philosophy; but computing in general is more like the ballpoint pen. Other people might draw the line elsewhere.

malloc wrote: ↑Fri Mar 28, 2025 5:49 pm

keenir wrote: ↑Fri Mar 28, 2025 4:25 pmrich people can fund both sides. this is not anything new -- Jefferson would have been familiar with the behavior.

The rich people in tech are doing Nazi salutes on stage while showering millions on right wing political campaigns. They certainly aren't funding the other side of the political spectrum.

what was that about fallacies? Musk=/=all rich tech people.

also, we've noticed connections, yes; we just don't lie down in traffic waiting for the T-800s to march over us.

I also urge resistance,

not that I recall ever seeing.

is that something you do IRL but not online?

keenir wrote: ↑Fri Mar 28, 2025 6:17 pmwhat was that about fallacies? Musk=/=all rich tech people.

Perhaps so, but the rest of the tech industry is hardly any better. Everyone from Jeff Bezos to Sam Altman has thrown their weight behind the MAGA regime in one way or another.

not that I recall ever seeing.

is that something you do IRL but not online?

I have spent the past two years urging people to reject AI only for everyone to dismiss my concerns as paranoia or declare that humans don't need creativity after all. Most of my battle thus far has been getting people to acknowledge the problem. Only once they have gotten that far can we hope to resist this threat effectively.

malloc wrote: ↑Fri Mar 28, 2025 6:43 pm has thrown their weight behind the MAGA regime in one way or another.

oh? what are the various 'or another's?

not that I recall ever seeing.

is that something you do IRL but not online?

I have spent the past two years urging people to reject AI only for everyone to dismiss my concerns as paranoia or declare that humans don't need creativity after all. Most of my battle thus far has been getting people to acknowledge the problem.

except you haven't framed it as a problem - you've been framing it as a reason to curl up and surrender preemptively.