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Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 6:07 am
by zompist
Most of this is probably explained by very selective immigration. E.g. there are about 77,000 Indonesian-Americans, compared with 2 million Korean-Americans. German-Americans 49 million, Turkish Americans, about 1/2 million. When you have such unbalanced groups, the larger group is going to approximate the US average, and the smaller group probably has a reason why it's so small. It's a lot harder for poor than rich Indonesians to get here.
It's also misleading to look at median incomes irrespective of location. E.g. 75% of the Hmong in the US live in California, Minnesota, or Wisconsin, all states with above average income-- California is #5. Plus, many of them live in urban areas, which also boosts income. It's quite possible for a group to make more than the average white American, while making less than the average white American
in their city or state.
Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 8:39 am
by rotting bones
zompist wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 6:07 am
Most of this is probably explained by very selective immigration. E.g. there are about 77,000 Indonesian-Americans, compared with 2 million Korean-Americans. German-Americans 49 million, Turkish Americans, about 1/2 million. When you have such unbalanced groups, the larger group is going to approximate the US average, and the smaller group probably has a reason why it's so small. It's a lot harder for poor than rich Indonesians to get here.
It's also misleading to look at median incomes irrespective of location. E.g. 75% of the Hmong in the US live in California, Minnesota, or Wisconsin, all states with above average income-- California is #5. Plus, many of them live in urban areas, which also boosts income. It's quite possible for a group to make more than the average white American, while making less than the average white American
in their city or state.
Koreans also seem to be in California, etc. Do you have a source that takes these things into account? It's not trivial to control for these from Wikipedia. The Bangladeshi population is slightly larger than the Turkish population, and the Hmong are a good deal bigger but on the same scale. The Korean population is an order of magnitude larger, but dwarfed in turn by the Chinese and the Indians. These are, however, comparable in size. Germans are like an eighth of America, but I don't know if those people will identify as "German Americans" like recent immigrants.
Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 7:43 pm
by zompist
rotting bones wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 8:39 am
Koreans also seem to be in California, etc. Do you have a source that takes these things into account? It's not trivial to control for these from Wikipedia.
That table is sourced to the Census. I tried looking at the Census website, but it's extremely hard to navigate. You may have better luck.
Germans are like an eighth of America, but I don't know if those people will identify as "German Americans" like recent immigrants.
What people tell the census is entirely unregulated. It's not like you have to prove that you're German-American, or Hmong-American. Or that you're not. These self-IDs should be taken with a large heaping of salt. Plus, of course, people intermarry and who knows how their descendants identify as.
Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:24 am
by alice
If Trump is found guilty of something and is put in jail, but then goes on to be elected as president, would there be a means by which he could get himself out of jail?
Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:25 am
by Raphael
alice wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:24 am
If Trump is found guilty of something and is put in jail, but then goes on to be elected as president, would there be a means by which he could get himself out of jail?
I guess as long as it's for one of the federal charges, he can pardon himself, if necessary from his jail cell, as soon as he's taken office. If he somehow ends up convicted on the Georgia state charges, it should be easy for him to get the Republican governor of Georgia to pardon him. Oh wait, there are also the New York state charges. That could be more difficult.
Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:26 am
by Raphael
Why do some labor unions that are active in the USA call themselves "international"? Do they have Canadian chapters or something?
Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:35 am
by Linguoboy
Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:26 am
Why do some labor unions that are active in the USA call themselves "international"? Do they have Canadian chapters or something?
If you mean, for example, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, yes, they have Canadian chapters.
Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:37 am
by Raphael
Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 10:35 am
Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:26 am
Why do some labor unions that are active in the USA call themselves "international"? Do they have Canadian chapters or something?
If you mean, for example, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, yes, they have Canadian chapters.
Yes, thank you!
Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:15 pm
by alice
Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:25 am
alice wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:24 am
If Trump is found guilty of something and is put in jail, but then goes on to be elected as president, would there be a means by which he could get himself out of jail?
I guess as long as it's for one of the federal charges, he can pardon himself, if necessary from his jail cell, as soon as he's taken office. If he somehow ends up convicted on the Georgia state charges, it should be easy for him to get the Republican governor of Georgia to pardon him. Oh wait, there are also the New York state charges. That could be more difficult.
More importantly, if he can't get himself out of jail, how will he fulfil presidential duties like travelling abroad to meet foreign leaders, assuming any actually want to meet him?
Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:08 pm
by conlangernoob
alice wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 2:15 pm
Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 6:25 am
alice wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 3:24 am
If Trump is found guilty of something and is put in jail, but then goes on to be elected as president, would there be a means by which he could get himself out of jail?
I guess as long as it's for one of the federal charges, he can pardon himself, if necessary from his jail cell, as soon as he's taken office. If he somehow ends up convicted on the Georgia state charges, it should be easy for him to get the Republican governor of Georgia to pardon him. Oh wait, there are also the New York state charges. That could be more difficult.
More importantly, if he can't get himself out of jail, how will he fulfil presidential duties like travelling abroad to meet foreign leaders, assuming any actually want to meet him?
Just the fact that people are seriously talking about this is crazy. If this was happening in some “civilized” European country we would be freaking out and questioning the country’s stability. In America, we’re just talking about it like it’s almost normal. Am I right?
Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:55 am
by alice
Trump has pulled off a major paradigm shift in US politics. If nothing else, that is what he will be remembered for.
Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:47 am
by Raphael
alice wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:55 am
Trump has pulled off a major paradigm shift in US politics. If nothing else,
that is what he will be remembered for.
A bit less major than people might think. "Trumpian" mindsets have been prominent on the US right-wing for generations; they just used to be kept at arms-length distance from the highest political leaders of the movement.
Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:48 am
by masako
Raphael wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 5:47 am
alice wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 2:55 am
Trump has pulled off a major paradigm shift in US politics. If nothing else,
that is what he will be remembered for.
A bit less major than people might think. "Trumpian" mindsets have been prominent on the US right-wing for generations; they just used to be kept at arms-length distance from the highest political leaders of the movement.
That *is* the shift. He made it easier for the fig-leaves to be destroyed, for the masses to openly express their long-held beliefs and opinions in social settings. The hoods have come off, so to speak. That's the paradigm shift.
Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 9:06 am
by Raphael
masako wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:48 am
That *is* the shift. He made it easier for the fig-leaves to be destroyed, for the masses to openly express their long-held beliefs and opinions in social settings. The hoods have come off, so to speak. That's the paradigm shift.
Fair enough.
Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 10:41 am
by Torco
he's not going to see the inside of a jail cell, are you kidding me? he's rich.
Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:00 pm
by Raphael
Torco wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 10:41 am
he's not going to see the inside of a jail cell, are you kidding me? he's rich.
So is Harvey Weinstein.
Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:05 pm
by Travis B.
The key thing is that he must be sentenced for his crimes in George and/or New York, to prevent him from just pardoning himself.
Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:12 pm
by Raphael
Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:05 pm
The key thing is that he must be sentenced for his crimes in George and/or New York, to prevent him from just pardoning himself.
Given the politics of most of Georgia, the Governor there would probably pardon him, too.
Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2023 6:35 pm
by Torco
Raphael wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:00 pm
Torco wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2023 10:41 am
he's not going to see the inside of a jail cell, are you kidding me? he's rich.
So is Harvey Weinstein.
yes, but very much less rich: i don't know if it's a reliable source, but
www.celebritynetworth.com says weinstein's worth 2,5e6 whereas torampo would be worth 2e9. three zeroes. plus whatever his wife, son, other son, uncle, cousin, whatever holds which in some ways also counts as his for the purposes of power. Also, trump is much more powerful than weinstein in other senses, and his crimes are much more... justifiable? arguable? nitpickeable? i could be wrong, of course.
Re: United States Politics Thread 46
Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 4:44 am
by Raphael
I don't think it's all that likely that Trump will end up in jail, but it's not as impossible as some make it out to be. Same for rich people ending up in jail in general.