Zompist Bboard Again

Posted: **Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:40 pm**

Regardin the Tory conference: there'll be a vote tomorrow mornin on whether to adjourn the commons to let people go to it.

Normally this would be a non-issue.... but then, normally all three conferences happen in a row. It's not normal for MPs to et the CHANCE to stiff just one party. And still, it should o throuh without issue... but they have taken a risk. Because instead of havin a debate on domestic violence (one of the bills that was sacrificed to have the proroation and is now back), the overnment's dedicated the day to havin a debate on "the rights of the electorate". So if they want to piss everyone else off enouh for them to screw up the Tory conference, they're oin about it the riht way...

Posted: **Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:21 am**

The speaker seems to be more important and respected in some respects nowadays than the PM. Is it possible or likely for there to be a change in importance like this? Like the PM is now more important than the king or how the Palace Mayors took from the kings in the Frankish kingdom.

Posted: **Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:19 pm**

Salmoneus wrote: ↑Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:40 pmRegardin the Tory conference: there'll be a vote tomorrow mornin on whether to adjourn the commons to let people go to it.

...and the government lost it. BoJo is now batting 0.125, which actually isn't bad for a pitcher...from the American League.

So does he show up for PMQ next week or not?

Posted: **Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:22 pm**

At this rate May almost seems like she was a half-successful prime minister...

Posted: **Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:00 pm**

Somehow I ended up looking at Katie Hopkins' wiki page, and am now convinced that she is one of the worst Britons ever.

Posted: **Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:50 pm**

La Wik wrote:In May 2018, Hopkins won an IPSO case against the Daily Mirror for claiming that she had been detained in South Africa in February 2018 for taking ketamine.[176] The Mirror updated the headline to say that she had been detained for spreading racial hatred, and included a correction in the article.[177]

Posted: **Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:10 pm**

Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:00 pm Somehow I ended up looking at Katie Hopkins' wiki page, and am now convinced that she is one of the worst Britons ever.

A lot of the Brits who actually did horrible things, instead of just saying horrible things, will be pretty hard to beat in that particular contest.

Posted: **Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:11 pm**

MacAnDàil wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:21 am The speaker seems to be more important and respected in some respects nowadays than the PM. Is it possible or likely for there to be a change in importance like this? Like the PM is now more important than the king or how the Palace Mayors took from the kings in the Frankish kingdom.

Based on the developments of a few weeks? No.

Posted: **Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:09 pm**

Raphael wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:10 pm
Travis B. wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:00 pm Somehow I ended up looking at Katie Hopkins' wiki page, and am now convinced that she is one of the worst Britons ever.
A lot of the Brits who actually did horrible things, instead of just saying horrible things, will be pretty hard to beat in that particular contest.

This is definitely true. She hasn't done that many horrible things, altogether, just said a lot of them.

Posted: **Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:34 pm**

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:19 pmBoJo is now batting 0.125, which actually isn't bad for a pitcher...from the American League.

Wait, Johnson won a vote? Now that's news! What was it?

Posted: **Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:40 pm**

While obviously surpassed by murder and the like, in at least two cases, Hopkins has inspired people to actually do things: the spraying of her inflammatory tweet on a Muslim's house and the supposedly too-fat girl band member Jesy Nelson's attempted suicide.

Raphael wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:11 pm
MacAnDàil wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:21 am The speaker seems to be more important and respected in some respects nowadays than the PM. Is it possible or likely for there to be a change in importance like this? Like the PM is now more important than the king or how the Palace Mayors took from the kings in the Frankish kingdom.
Based on the developments of a few weeks? No.

I understand that it would be too early to say this but the change I am referring to started in March, so it's a bit more than a few weeks. And there was a different ineffectual PM at the time.

Posted: **Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:51 pm**

So far as I can see, he's had eight votes, and not exactly 'won' any of them.

Five of the votes were straight defeats. Two votes were technically wins - more people voted for an election each time than voted against (because everyone abstained). So he technically 'won' the votes, they just don't have any effect because they don't reach the 2/3rds supermajority. So most people would count them as losses.

He also technically won a vote on an amendment put forward by some Tory rebels, but none of the main parties disagreed with him, so it wasn't a meaninful vote in that sense.

So yeah, effectively it's seven defeats in a row. Aruably eight (that one where they intentionally didn't count their side of the vote).

For context, between 1979 and 1997, the Tory government lost 10 votes. Between 1997 and 2010, the Labour government lost 7 votes. Between 2010 and 2016, Cameron's government lost 10 votes.

Even May's 36 defeats 2016-2019 is startin to look not so bad...

Posted: **Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:05 pm**

And Corbyn has apparently presided over the most defeats as opposition leader, surpassing Thatcher.

The Wikipedia page on government defeats even has a picture of Boris at the top

Posted: **Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:34 pm**

Apparently Rory Stewart is thinking of founding a British equivalent to En Marche!
Because with the Liberal Democrats, The Independent Group for Change, The Independents and plain old independents what the UK apparently lacks are pro-EU centrists

Posted: **Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:46 pm**

mèþru wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2019 4:34 pm Apparently Rory Stewart is thinking of founding a British equivalent to En Marche!
Because with the Liberal Democrats, The Independent Group for Change, The Independents and plain old independents what the UK apparently lacks are pro-EU centrists

The independent conservatives may also apparently become the Independent Conservatives - or some of them, at least.

EDIT: I don't know what stewart will do, but I don't think we've seen the last of him. He's too smart, articulate, youn, and ambitious. He's the sort of uy you could imaine spendin ten years in 'the wilderness', writin books and newspaper columns, before makin a return.

-----

MEanwhile, there's been controversy over the fact that, as Mayor of London, Boris channeled public funds (hundreds of thousands of pounds) to a poledance / "technoloy entrepeneur" he was sleepin with, despite the fact that her companies did not qualify for the loans (e, they were only 'British' because she listed a British address, that didn't have any connexion to her or any actual corporate presence, while all calls etc were diverted to her real HQ in california), and most of them immediately folded after she received the money. And he didn't declare his relationship with her at the time he was divertin this cash to her.

The London Assembly has summoned him to explain himself to them.

His supporters have objected, sayin that the PM is accountable to Parliament, not to the mayor of London!

The London Assembly has pointed out that, unlike Parliament, they reularly sentence people to several months in jail at a time for refusin to attend their summons.

...so now the PM says he will attend.

Posted: **Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:08 am**

I'm not sure whether this matters, but apparently, Johnson has offered the EU to have an Island-of-Ireland-wide regulatory area for agriculture, food, and manufactured goods, and - this part surprises me - the DUP(!) has apparently said they wouldn't mind that.

Posted: **Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:14 pm**

The basic outline seems to be:

- Northern Ireland has to follow EU rules
- hard border down the Irish sea performing checks on goods traveling between NI and Britain
- some sort of soft border between NI and Ireland, with goods checked at factories and undisclosed 'designated locations' rather than at borders (effectively giving carte blanche to smugglers and people-traffickers)
- the agreement can only continue if confirmed every four years by NI politicians

I'll give Johnson credit - it's a more serious suggestion than I expected. He's clearly giving ground compared to May's position.

I don't think either the EU or Parliament will be willing to accept it, but I'm willing to be surprised. I'm already surprised the DUP are accepting it. They say they like how it lets them leave the single market, although the BBC explainer describes it as northern ireland remaining in the single market. I think Johnson's followed the strategy I recommended two years ago: put a border between Britain and Northern Ireland, but say that you haven't. The DUP are absolutely opposed to saying that there's a border between NI and GB...

The fourth point there is also likely to be an issue. Currently, there ARE no NI politicians - Stormont has been suspended for almost three years now and shows no signs of ever reopening. I suppose we could just round up some politicians every four years JUST to vote on the EU... but I'm not sure the EU will want its relationship with Britain to be governed by the whimsy of an occasional colloquium of ulstermen...

------

In other news: Johnson's been fighting off accusations that he once touched the leg of someone he was talking to at a party twenty years ago - normally that would be a resigning matter, but he says that the issue is fundamentally all about Brexit, and the People have chosen him to carry out the People's Will, so questions about legs and hands and locations are all undemocratic, and anyways, he has no memory of anything that happened before last wednesday anyway. What are legs? Parties? Never heard of them.

In other other news: Parliament's being prorogued again.

Posted: **Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:30 pm**

Salmoneus wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:14 pm In other other news: Parliament's being prorogued again.

What? Talk about burying the Lede...

Posted: **Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:48 pm**

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:30 pm
Salmoneus wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:14 pm In other other news: Parliament's being prorogued again.
What? Talk about burying the Lede...

Of course I should probably say 'being prorogued for the first time in years'...

It's probably not a big issue. It's happening next week, and re-opening on the 14th, so it's basically just giving parliament a week off. The government think that this much more normal prorogation duration will allow them to avoid the ire of the judiciary.

The opposition are angry about it, talking about the loss of opportunity to scrutinise, but I don't think they'll get much traction. It's just a week. And besides, they're doing sod all anyway. They're debating only one bill this week, and that's the domestic abuse bill, nothing to do with brexit.

However, combined with the PM ducking PMQs today to give his speech instead, it will yield and interesting trivia item: Boris Johnson will only have attended this session of Parliament as Prime Minister for a single day, despite having been PM for nearly three months of it.

Posted: **Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:25 pm**

Salmoneus wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:14 pm - Northern Ireland has to follow EU rules
- hard border down the Irish sea performing checks on goods traveling between NI and Britain
- some sort of soft border between NI and Ireland, with goods checked at factories and undisclosed 'designated locations' rather than at borders (effectively giving carte blanche to smugglers and people-traffickers)
- the agreement can only continue if confirmed every four years by NI politicians

I'll give Johnson credit - it's a more serious suggestion than I expected. He's clearly giving ground compared to May's position.

To whom?

This kind of look like the EU's original idea: NI in the customs union, hard border in the Irish Sea. However, if point 4 is supposed to replace the backstop, it's hard to see Ireland accepting it.

But suppose they do. What would Boris's chances be getting it past Parliament? He doesn't have a majority even with the DUP, so who crosses over to help him?

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