Zompist Bboard Again

bradrn wrote: ↑Sat Sep 28, 2024 12:54 amUlwa?

Ulwa.

That was another good one, thanks! Central America is more diverse than I'd thought.

I was meaning to do the next text now but don't have the time. Will find and post something tomorrow.

Next text. The grammar sadly provides no sample text, but hopefully this collection of sample sentences will do as well:

gʸa³ra² saʔ²⁻³k'an⁴ han³k'u²e³
ni⁴ ba²⁻³ya³ ga³bm⁵ ham⁴m³se²na³da¹ ne¹na³ bo¹da² du⁴mars³ koy¹
nya³ ta³ pe⁴tu²eš²na⁴ ta⁴ a¹pi³ pu⁴gi⁵ yis⁴ku²eš⁴na⁴
ha⁴kn⁵ no¹ti⁵ ya²⁻³kn⁴si⁵ / wo³s̀'i⁵ ye³ʔi⁵ a²ti / nor²gn³ is̀⁵ kuč¹kan⁴ go⁴𝼝̌u²e³

Omotic?

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 9:53 amOmotic?

Damn. Yes.

(I was hoping it’d be less obvious than that…)

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 9:54 am

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 9:53 amOmotic?

Damn. Yes.

(I was hoping it’d be less obvious than that…)

Five level tones, syllabic nasals. Benchnon/Gimira?

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 9:55 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 9:54 am

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 9:53 amOmotic?

Damn. Yes.

(I was hoping it’d be less obvious than that…)

Five level tones, syllabic nasals. Benchnon/Gimira?

Yep.

You must tell me how you got this one so quickly. I was hoping someone would misidentify it as Otomanguean.

Dam, where d'yall go to for referencing and looking up all those phonologies?

Zju wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:01 am Dam, where d'yall go to for referencing and looking up all those phonologies?

My understanding is that Nort uses telepathy to suck the answers out of our minds.

(As for me, as a mere mortal I’m restricted to my accumulated papers and books.)

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 9:57 am You must tell me how you got this one so quickly. I was hoping someone would misidentify it as Otomanguean.

It's well-known in phonology as a language with five level tones, so I read a paper about it some years ago and remembered that syllabic nasals are common in it. What else has five level tones and syllabic nasals? The combination of the final cluster <-rs> and a large tone inventory is especially rare - and there are no initial clusters, so it can't be Chatino or anything like that. Since it isn't spoken in Asia (ejectives) and doesn't look Mesoamerican (final clusters, no initial clusters), there isn't anything to distract from the five tones (plus <²⁻³>, which could either be tone sandhi or a rising tone) and syllabic nasals, which are notable traits of Benchnon - or maybe a closely related language with a recent or obscure grammar.

I didn't remember it having contrastive palatalization (and Wikipedia doesn't follow that analysis), but I assumed /Cj/.

Next:

Wdnoce lketl wdhseka mlel swdra wdmenunei, hlha kerowa tlncewd wdnoce krlketl mlginei. Etl Wdkuntl wdwye atva nlheraskonewere wekelsko: wyescifka rlketvanl worlka pehce onlonta ketvanl akak, wdhseka ukewyglhce nlhltlraneik. ... Etl wagtl, peklha pew wdhw kontltanl, tore wekemdnelsko, ecincifa tlntlnlha mufkre rotvlhce etlkegwenl. Etl okwdnei, ecincifa nlhl ehw krltokramenl ltlnei, etl kwhu krewdnei etl trwlrincinei: etl woew wakrwa rwjtunei wdnufkahe okunei, mlgigkl jwca, plne jerl jokl hatl nowlml okonei.

A lot of 'tl's, no tones and long words, but it can't be Nahuatl - soo something else Uto-Aztecan or Mesoamerican? I assume some vowel is denoted by <w>

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:18 am Next:

Wdnoce lketl wdhseka mlel swdra wdmenunei, hlha kerowa tlncewd wdnoce krlketl mlginei. Etl Wdkuntl wdwye atva nlheraskonewere wekelsko: wyescifka rlketvanl worlka pehce onlonta ketvanl akak, wdhseka ukewyglhce nlhltlraneik. ... Etl wagtl, peklha pew wdhw kontltanl, tore wekemdnelsko, ecincifa tlntlnlha mufkre rotvlhce etlkegwenl. Etl okwdnei, ecincifa nlhl ehw krltokramenl ltlnei, etl kwhu krewdnei etl trwlrincinei: etl woew wakrwa rwjtunei wdnufkahe okunei, mlgigkl jwca, plne jerl jokl hatl nowlml okonei.

Um.

I feel I should first verify that this isn’t a conlang or a joke.

Zju wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:23 am I assume some vowel is denoted by <w>

Note krltokramenl. Those look like consonant clusters to me.

EDIT: but wdhw is suspicious. Maybe ⟨w⟩ is indeed a vowel.

Zju wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:23 am Uto-Aztecan or Mesoamerican?

Neither.

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:24 am I feel I should first verify that this isn’t a conlang or a joke.

Neither. It's a natlang orthography that was used in material printed with the intent of developing mass literacy.

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:28 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:24 am I feel I should first verify that this isn’t a conlang or a joke.

Neither. It's a natlang orthography that was used in material printed with the intent of developing mass literacy.

Gosh.

I’ve got to start somewhere and have no real idea what this could be, so: Austronesian?

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:31 am

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:28 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:24 am I feel I should first verify that this isn’t a conlang or a joke.

Neither. It's a natlang orthography that was used in material printed with the intent of developing mass literacy.

Gosh.

Unfortunately, key stakeholders were not aligned with the mission.

I’ve got to start somewhere and have no real idea what this could be, so: Austronesian?

No.

Is it spoken somewhere in Asia, then? I’ve seen plenty of bad orthographies from there.

(It’s getting late here, so if I don’t get something in the next couple of guesses I’m giving up and going to bed.)

On a second thought, a phonology that funky has to come from or around Papua New Guinea..... right?

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:41 am Is it spoken somewhere in Asia, then? I’ve seen plenty of bad orthographies from there.

No.

It may interest you to know that there are more than six vowel letters.

Zju wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:43 am On a second thought, a phonology that funky has to come from or around Papua New Guinea..... right?

No.

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:45 am It may interest you to know that there are more than six vowel letters.

I knew it. The more I look at it, the more certain I become that ⟨l⟩ is a vowel here.

So, it’s not Asian or Pacific, it’s definitely not Australian and unlikely to be European… from the Americas?

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:48 am

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:45 am It may interest you to know that there are more than six vowel letters.

I knew it. The more I look at it, the more certain I become that ⟨l⟩ is a vowel here.

That's one of them.

So, it’s not Asian or Pacific, it’s definitely not Australian and unlikely to be European… from the Americas?

Yes.