Zompist Bboard Again

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:45 pm Is that /a/ the "trap" vowel or the "palm" vowel? I have the marry-merry-Mary merger, so my trap and face-vowels in that context will both be [ɛː]. I also don't idiolectally have [x], so /k/ might be the expected form for me to have (though with the palm-vowel, it would be [ə'kʰɑː.ɹə.kʰəɫ]).

Scottish English often doesn't distinguish TRAP and PALM, so you could reasonably use either. I use TRAP.

It's actually [h], as suggested by the Gaelic with its <th>, not [x]; Aharracle might be a more helpful Anglicised spelling. There's another example of <ch>=[h] a few miles away at Ballachulish, which in my experience is /baləˈhuːlɪʃ/; Wikipedia gives both that and a form with /x/. That's Gaelic Baile a' Chaolais, which does have [x], but what both have in common is that the <ch> is in the onset of the stressed syllable.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 3:45 pm Is that /a/ the "trap" vowel or the "palm" vowel? I have the marry-merry-Mary merger, so my trap and face-vowels in that context will both be [ɛː]. I also don't idiolectally have [x], so /k/ might be the expected form for me to have (though with the palm-vowel, it would be [ə'kʰɑː.ɹə.kʰəɫ]).

I would presume that this is Scottish English, so if I am correct, /a/ in an open syllable is TRAP.

(Edit: but as anteallach mentions, Scottish English does not normally distinguish TRAP or PALM.)

"history"

Two or three syllables for you guys?

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:31 am "history"

Two or three syllables for you guys?

[ˈhɘɕtɕʁ̩ˤːʁˤi(ː)]

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:31 am "history"

Two or three syllables for you guys?

Two, just like mystery or blistery.

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:31 am "history"

Two or three syllables for you guys?

Two, with something like [ʂtʂ] in the middle...

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:00 pm Two, just like mystery or blistery.

... but blistery is three, at least in citation form, and has a normal [st].

anteallach wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:08 pm

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:31 am "history"

Two or three syllables for you guys?

Two, with something like [ʂtʂ] in the middle...

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 12:00 pm Two, just like mystery or blistery.

... but blistery is three, at least in citation form, and has a normal [st].

I seem to have a three way-contrast between [ɕtɕɻʁV] (the [ɻʁ] is a single coarticulated phone), [ɕtɕʁ̩ˤːʁˤV], and [sʲtʲʁ̩ˤːʁˤV]. I have the first in, say, Austria, the second in words such as, say, mystery, history, restaurant, and like, and the third in words like blistery.

Kuchigakatai wrote: ↑Wed Aug 31, 2022 9:31 am "history"

Two or three syllables for you guys?

Three.

I don't think I have ~desyllabization of syllabic resonants~ except in Everest /ɛvrɨst/, but there may be more examples.

(vs. words like cabinet where I have two syllables and find three a little grating)

How do you pronounce "caramel"? I pronounce it like "Carmel".

Space60 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:10 pm How do you pronounce "caramel"? I pronounce it like "Carmel".

I also pronounce it like "carmel".

It really depends on how fancy I'm feeling at the moment, and the perceived "fanciness" of the caramel.

Space60 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:10 pm How do you pronounce "caramel"? I pronounce it like "Carmel".

As one of the few people who has both of these in my usual vocabulary, I pronounce them differently: [ˈkʰæɻʷɵˌme̞w ~ ˈkʰæɻʷɵmɵw] vs [kʰɑːme̞w ~ ˈkʰɑːmɵw]. (Disclaimer: I’m unsure about the quality of the vowels transcribed as [ɵ] there.)

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:27 pm It really depends on how fancy I'm feeling at the moment, and the perceived "fanciness" of the caramel.

When I'm feeling particularly snooty I'll say [ˈkʰɛːʁˤə̃ːˌmɜ(ː)ɤ̯] rather than my usual [ˈkʰɑ̃ːʁ̃ˤmɯ(ː)].

I think I also more likely say ['kʰɑːɹ.məɫ] when describing something, like caramel corn, though ['cʰɛː.ɹəˌmɛːɫ] could also appear; also caramellise is usually ['cʰɛː.ɹəˌmɛː.ɫaːiz].

Does anyone else commonly pronounce quarter as a monosyllable?

Travis B. wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:58 pm Does anyone else commonly pronounce quarter as a monosyllable?

What would that sound like? My quarter is usually ['kʰʷɔɹ.dər~'kʰʷɔɹ.dr], inflected forms tend to preserve that medial syllable, as quartering ['kʰʷɔɹ.də.riŋ].

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 9:30 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 8:58 pm Does anyone else commonly pronounce quarter as a monosyllable?

What would that sound like? My quarter is usually ['kʰʷɔɹ.dər~'kʰʷɔɹ.dr], inflected forms tend to preserve that medial syllable, as quartering ['kʰʷɔɹ.də.riŋ].

A common pronunciation here of quarter is [kʰwɔʁˤː] (note the short vowel and the long /r/ — *quar would be [kʰwɔ(ː)ʁˤ]), alongside the more careful [ˈkʰwɔʁˤɾʁ̩ˤ(ː)]. As for quartering, I have [ˈkʰwɔʁˤɾʁ̩ˤːʁˤɘ̃(ː)ŋ].

Travis B. wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:24 pm A common pronunciation here of quarter is [kʰwɔʁˤː] (note the short vowel and the long /r/ — *quar would be [kʰwɔ(ː)ʁˤ]), alongside the more careful [ˈkʰwɔʁˤɾʁ̩ˤ(ː)]. As for quartering, I have [ˈkʰwɔʁˤɾʁ̩ˤːʁˤɘ̃(ː)ŋ].

Sometimes, these phonetic transcriptions make it feel as if we were separated by some vast ocean of time.

Either way, I could probably (maybe) understand [kʰwɔʁˤː] in context, but I have difficulty articulating it, or an idiolectal equivalent, in a way that feels natural.

I don't pronounce "quarter" as a monosyllable. I do however pronounce "quarter" and "quart" without a /w/. "Quart" sounds the same as "court" for me.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:32 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 11:24 pm A common pronunciation here of quarter is [kʰwɔʁˤː] (note the short vowel and the long /r/ — *quar would be [kʰwɔ(ː)ʁˤ]), alongside the more careful [ˈkʰwɔʁˤɾʁ̩ˤ(ː)]. As for quartering, I have [ˈkʰwɔʁˤɾʁ̩ˤːʁˤɘ̃(ː)ŋ].

Sometimes, these phonetic transcriptions make it feel as if we were separated by some vast ocean of time.

Either way, I could probably (maybe) understand [kʰwɔʁˤː] in context, but I have difficulty articulating it, or an idiolectal equivalent, in a way that feels natural.

I think my transcriptions make the dialect here seem weirder than it is because I very rarely encounter native NAE-speakers that have trouble understanding me, implying that speech similar to my own is more widely familiar than one may think. However, non-native English-speakers are another story, and when talking with them I often have to avoid more progressive or dialectal forms lest they not understand.