Zompist Bboard Again

I guess I'm the odd one out here (except Kath), but the "Dene mess" sentence sounds completely normal to me, and I'm shocked by everyone else's shocked reactions to it!

I wouldn't say I was shocked per se, but that's ungrammatical for me.

Vijay wrote: ↑Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:08 amI wouldn't say I was shocked per se, but that's ungrammatical for me.

"Shocked" is definitely the wrong word here. I simply found it odd, i.e. not something I would say, not something I would expect to hear. I hesitate to call it "ungrammatical" given that very similar constructions are perfectly acceptable to me.

I'm with Linguoboy. Not at all ungrammatical for me, simply garden pathy in an unexpected way.

Ran across this in the wild (emphasis mine):

...where the average annual wage in 2017 was almost half that of the average American’s – $31,650 compared to $60,558...

The context here is that the writer was trying to emphasize how low the 31650 figure is relative to the 60558 figure. As you can see from the math, the writer meant that 31650 is just slightly more than half of 60558, and therefore was almost down to the halfway point from the average American wage, or almost as little as half the average American wage. It was clear to me what the writer meant, and if I strain a bit I can understand the logic that brought them there. What do we all think of this? Is it perfectly normal? Is it monkey-gibberish?

Yeah, that's normal for me.

I'm gonna have to say "weird" on that one. "Almost half" definitely implies "under half, close to it but not quite there yet" to me.

(also, the "almost X" construction appears to carry positive connotations for me--I think the writer's point would be better served by saying "only half" or "just half" to emphasize the difference)

alynnidalar wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:56 am I'm gonna have to say "weird" on that one. "Almost half" definitely implies "under half, close to it but not quite there yet" to me.

Same, though I'm not a native speaker.

I also think it is weird. I'd probably say "Just over half".

Yeah, I agree

The meaning of 'almost half' relative to 'half' depends on what one would expect otherwise. If one would initially think the amount would be the same, 'almost half' makes sense if there is a noteworthy dimunition. I think we need more context to comment on it. Googling "earn almost half" I find the comparative use typically meaning more than 50%.

There's a coffee shop near here that's taken to selling something they call "pumpkin spice flavour". What the hell does that even mean!? Pumpkin is not a spice!
Another one has taken to selling (in theory - the staff warn people not to order it because it's disgusting) "bonfire spice" flavour, which at least makes a little more sense but is still a pretty weird concept...

Salmoneus wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:26 pm There's a coffee shop near here that's taken to selling something they call "pumpkin spice flavour". What the hell does that even mean!? Pumpkin is not a spice!
Another one has taken to selling (in theory - the staff warn people not to order it because it's disgusting) "bonfire spice" flavour, which at least makes a little more sense but is still a pretty weird concept...

There is a place here in the US of A known as Starbucks, and they invented something called the "pumpkin spice latte" (presumably pumpkin-flavored with some sort of spice flavor added, even though this is not entirely certain), and since then "pumpkin spice"-flavored items have taken off....

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Adding to that, "pumpkin pie spice" or indeed plain "pumpkin spice" is a type of spice mix commonly available in American grocery stores. (I assume it's less common across the pond, given the lower frequency of pumpkins!) It's a blend of nutmeg, cinnamon, ginger, cloves, and allspice.

alynnidalar wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:56 pm Adding to that, "pumpkin pie spice" or indeed plain "pumpkin spice" is a type of spice mix commonly available in American grocery stores. (I assume it's less common across the pond, given the lower frequency of pumpkins!) It's a blend of nutmeg, cinnamon, ginger, cloves, and allspice.

I wonder if, considering that Halloween is slowly diffusing across the pond, the same will happen with pumpkins themselves, and along with them, items of food made with pumpkin...

EDIT: Just checked, and pumpkins are currently eaten in the Old World today.

It's nearly impossible to get canned pumpkin in Europe, however. I packed four cans of the stuff to make pumpkin pie with this Thanksgiving.

I think being taken aback by "pumpkin spice" but not by "bonfire spice" is the most British thing Sal has ever said. At least pumpkin is a food! What is bonfire spice, anyway? Spilled whiskey and soot?

Pumpkins are pretty common in India, though not as much as certain other kinds of squash.

Just in case, I would like to mention that Halloween has been celebrated in Scotland and Ireland for at least a few centuries before immigrants from these countries modified it in the US. The pumpkins were originally turnips/rutabaga (neeps) and changed to pumpkin in the New World precisely because turnips weren't available.

Here in Réunion, pumpkins are known for making gratin with and the American form of Halloween has starting coming in the past couple of decades.