Zompist Bboard Again

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:59 am I would like to propose the following Easter eggs for CT in acknowledgement of those who have provided me feedback and support on the ZBB...

I for one am okay with this.

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:59 am I would like to propose the following Easter eggs for CT in acknowledgement of those who have provided me feedback and support on the ZBB; many of these are due to this thread (either by dint of having posted or because they run/facilitate the board). I say "propose" because I would like to ask if anybody objects.

I don't object; unless object covers things like saying you didn't have to do that, but either way, thank you very much.

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:59 am I would like to propose the following Easter eggs for CT in acknowledgement of those who have provided me feedback and support on the ZBB; many of these are due to this thread (either by dint of having posted or because they run/facilitate the board). I say "propose" because I would like to ask if anybody objects.

I’m honoured! And glad I could assist in the perennial problem of coining new words from the æther. Though, if I may ask, how precisely is one supposed to pronounce mradrn?

(Also, I’m wondering if it might be a good idea to hold off on people who are no longer active here, since they don’t have any opportunity to see the list…)

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:12 am Though, if I may ask, how precisely is one supposed to pronounce mradrn?

I'd guess like a cat's mraow, or the singer Jason Mraz.

also, like Victor Von Doom, only keeping it in your throat like a musical note.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:18 pm

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 1:14 pmSasaha n Lemhár (Levarian mode) – Sort of a calligraphic or stylized version of Atskian mode. No horizontal lines, and lines are canted by 30° from horizontal (left-to-upper-right diagonal), with individual blocks kind of sideways-stacked—think something like "////" for the layout, though each slash/block is much less vertical.

Was this written on palm leaves?

Not natively. I was inspired by nastaliq.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 9:50 pm

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:59 amI would like to propose the following Easter eggs for CT in acknowledgement of those who have provided me feedback and support on the ZBB...

This is very sweet of you.

foxcatdog wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 10:42 pmI for one am okay with this.

keenir wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:14 pmI don't object; unless object covers things like saying you didn't have to do that, but either way, thank you very much.

[heart emoji]

keenir wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:41 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:12 amThough, if I may ask, how precisely is one supposed to pronounce mradrn?

I'd guess like a cat's mraow, or the singer Jason Mraz.also, like Victor Von Doom, only keeping it in your throat like a musical note.

[m̩ɹàðɹn̩]

bradrn wrote: ↑Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:12 am

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:59 am I would like to propose the following Easter eggs for CT in acknowledgement of those who have provided me feedback and support on the ZBB; many of these are due to this thread (either by dint of having posted or because they run/facilitate the board). I say "propose" because I would like to ask if anybody objects.

I’m honoured! And glad I could assist in the perennial problem of coining new words from the æther. Though, if I may ask, how precisely is one supposed to pronounce mradrn?

How does one actually pronounce Bradrn?

I've been made aware of an app called "Fantasy Calendar" that allows date conversion. I haven't quite figured out how to get it to handle the day-length difference between Íröd and Earth, so for now, here's a date somewhere close to today's in various timekeeping systems.

1 Öshë Msaĝ, 906 CYY
161 Olsuóguóno Luígina Untúgsiálguí RD
Ôaiay 1:6, 1533 CÔB
Muôn 2 Danggan, 3483 YBI
Urdme 8, 1625 TFY
XIV Agánni, MMDCXXXII ASV
Śaśer 23, 3492 CC

…and I screwed this up. Today's date should actually be:

1 Öshë Msaĝ, 786 CYY
140 Olsuóguóno Maháalgi Koluóhua RD
Ȯgǎr 5:1, 1411 CÔB
Ikeô 8 Danggan, 3363 YB
Urdme 13, 1506 TFY
VI Proceu MMDXLII ASV
Ŭǵoac 31, 3372 CC

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:59 am I would like to propose the following Easter eggs for CT in acknowledgement of those who have provided me feedback and support on the ZBB; many of these are due to this thread (either by dint of having posted or because they run/facilitate the board). I say "propose" because I would like to ask if anybody objects.

That's very nice of you!

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:59 am I would like to propose the following Easter eggs for CT in acknowledgement of those who have provided me feedback and support on the ZBB; many of these are due to this thread (either by dint of having posted or because they run/facilitate the board). I say "propose" because I would like to ask if anybody objects.

Thank you!

rahaél to observe (Raphael)

That's very perceptive! I often feel like other people get to live their lives, and I get to observe them living their lives.

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:59 am I would like to propose the following Easter eggs for CT in acknowledgement of those who have provided me feedback and support on the ZBB; many of these are due to this thread (either by dint of having posted or because they run/facilitate the board). I say "propose" because I would like to ask if anybody objects.

Thank you very much!

Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:53 pm

Thank you![/quote]

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 2:48 pmThank you very much!

You're quite welcome! I love leaving Easter eggs in my conlangs.

Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:53 pm

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:59 amrahaél to observe (Raphael)

That's very perceptive! I often feel like other people get to live their lives, and I get to observe them living their lives.

It was because you made a remark about watching this thread, if I recall.

OK. So I actually spoke with the Fantasy Calendar devs on Twitter and I think I figured out how to set the day lengths differently. I will attempt to fix the dates one last time here. Today (8 November 2022 Julian) is:

4 Łakłé 902 CYY
160 Iólisku Megilí Maguáli RD
Gzyǐn 1:5, 1534 CÔB
Ikeô 2 Tâlle, 5711 BI
Urdme 21, 1618 TFY
XXXII Lúquor V̅CCCLIII ASV
Śaśer 25, 4331 CC

Man in Space wrote: ↑Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:59 am sasaha script, writing system, writing convention; spelling (sasaha, per this post)

I'm quite touched by this. Thanks.

Good to see your projects are continuing in excellent health.

The Tim Ar Empire is divided roughly thus:

The Tim Ar Empire, as the name suggests, comprises one empire.

This empire is divided into five viceroyalties (Uluhír, West Kaordér, the Core Imperium, Méoménsú, and Greater Keleked) and two special administrative zones (Ḫurgéłis and the Mziddyun).

About the latter two, there is no further detail for us to go into. The former five can be divided into circles, marches, banners, moots, and coronacies.
- A circle is your garden-variety group of smaller territories. Divisible into provinces.
- A march is a circle around a certain central hub city (most often one of the Täptäg city-states) granted special economic status or benefits. Divisible into prefectures.
- A banner is a circle administered directly by a military junta (e.g. Wur Jara). Divisible into themes.
- A moot is a circle that was a foreign territory that was assimilated into the Empire (as opposed to merely conquered). Divisible into baronies or cantons.
- A coronacy is a client state that was all but absorbed as-is into the Empire with only the minimum assimilation they could get away with. This is a rare status saved for a select few areas that let themselves get annexed for strategic reasons: Lesser Xiaoxiao, Mital Kio, the Täptäg Principality and the Duchy of Deverris. Divisible however they were when annexed.

There are also two free cities, namely Ágmrgámr (the capital) and Írödkámr (World City), that have their own special national status. World City is notable that it was a planned settlement built over the crater of a hundred-megaton nuclear bomb designed and set off for the purpose.

Some work on Khaseram, a Tim Ar holding.

Just a minor quibble, but traditionally a march was a borderland between two states or territories, like the marches between England and Wales.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:01 pm Just a minor quibble, but traditionally a march was a borderland between two states or territories, like the marches between England and Wales.

Oh. Dang. Uh…would calling them prefectures and districts be a more accurate workaround?

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Surface forms of CT plurals

This is a problem that's been bugging me for a while. Might as well try to write some formal rules for it…

When it comes to the CT "decompositional" plurals, you form plurals by metathesizing the first CV sequence:
tagóm 'ingot, bar' > argóm 'ingots' (the t > r thing is regular)
mírín 'brick' > ímrín 'bricks'

First, the easy one out of the way: No geminates. If you'd get a geminate sequence between vowels, replace it with coda h.
kagor 'furnace; (later) rocket engine, thruster' > ahgor 'furnaces' (^Xaggor)
ríre 'hair, filament, follicle, strand, string' > íhre 'hairs'

For purposes of pluralization, g and h often pattern together as "laryngeals" ("H" below) and are given to vocalizing to a.
HVC₂C₃- > VaC₂C₃-
C₁VHC₃- > VC₁aC₃-
C₁VC₂H- > VC₁C₂a-

If the word begins with h, you know you're in for a grand time.
hVCC- > VhCC-
- Underlying tr, lr, and kr become ts
- Similarly, underlying tl, rl, and kl become tł
Then h deletes.

This can actually be generalized, as certain sequences with /h/ are more or less easy to resolve via a common pathway:
C₁V{h,g}C₃- > (via an intermediate VC₁{h,g}C₃- >) VC₁aC₃
C₁V{h,g}C₃- > (via an intermediate VC₁{h,g}C₃- >) VC₁aC₃

Remember how above I mentioned that geminates become coda /h/? That interferes here too.
nínlug 'trough' > íanlug (^Xínnlug)

These rules in combination sometimes lead to incredible results:
gig SCAPE > iha PL/SCAPE
ter 'woman' > ehr 'women'

If the second consonant would be a syllabic resonant (other than g), let it so stand:
lémrilas 'balloon' > élmrilas 'balloons'

Other final clusters and medial triconsonantal clusters are also disallowed and supported by an epenthetic i:
ĝar (underlying ĝat) 'bell, whistle, signifier, alarm, klaxon' > aĝri (^Xaĝt)
sadĝa 'taffy bar' > asdiĝa 'taffy bars'

Interesting rules you have there. There's a precedent for a productive metathesis rule, exhibited in a certain Oceanic language that I keep forgetting which it was. Maybe Rotokas?

Though I'm unsure about the more complex forms. It seems like they'll quickly fossilize as irregular plurals?

How many people speak CT? Such morphological complexity tends to arise only in small speech communities.

Zju wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:57 pmInteresting rules you have there. There's a precedent for a productive metathesis rule, exhibited in a certain Oceanic language that I keep forgetting which it was. Maybe Rotokas?

I was actually more influenced by Arabic and Fur.

Zju wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:57 pmThough I'm unsure about the more complex forms. It seems like they'll quickly fossilize as irregular plurals?

Perhaps. I’ll have to see how they develop in the daughter languages.

Zju wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:57 pmHow many people speak CT? Such morphological complexity tends to arise only in small speech communities.

It wasn’t the most-widely spoken language on Íröd in its heyday. When it was revived as an artificial standard and became the language of Doing Things, there was an arm of the government created for its maintenance. While many in the Empire don’t speak (or read, as the case may be) it, many nonetheless do, and it’s used for law, medicine, politics, science, international diplomacy, and just generally domestically running things. (In the fields of finance and business specifically, you do run into CT but also into Täptäg.)

Zju wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:57 pm Interesting rules you have there. There's a precedent for a productive metathesis rule, exhibited in a certain Oceanic language that I keep forgetting which it was. Maybe Rotokas?

Rotuman. Rotokas isn’t Oceanic!

Some more notes on CT pluralization resolution

I'm thinking of altering the triconsonantal plurals (in #CVCCV-) somewhat.

When the word begins with h in specific, hVCCV- > VCCV-, where underlying:

- tr, lr, nr, kr > ts
- tl, rl, nl, kl > tł
- mC > hC
- nC > sC
- rC > sC
- lC > łC
- ĝC > ḫC

When the second and third consonants are obstruents and the first consonant is not h:
- If the third consonant is h, it drops. (This applies before the following two rules.)
- If the second consonant is one of ḫ g h, it becomes a. Interconsonantal d s become r; ł becomes l.
- When t and k are the second consonant, they gain a supporting i following them.
- If the third consonant is a resonant, let it stand as syllabic. Otherwise, let the second consonant stand syllabic; append a final i if a coda is present.

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Lenition of postvocalic stops in CT

CT postvocalic t and k regularly become r and g when standing immediately after a vowel or a resonant. The change is blocked before fricatives other than the velar fricative (i.e. after d, s, ł, and h) or before another stop.

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General consonant voicing/lenition in CT

Consonants are generally given to voicing when intervocalic or between two voiced sounds generally:

hándeg 'type of wind instrument' /hánθèʕ/ [hǽnðèʕ] (a → æ / _N is a regular occurrence)
oisog 'written passage, text' /òìsòʕ/ [òìzòʕ]
tégde 'boomerang' /téʕθè/ [téʕðè]
teḫod 'pus, discharge, infection' /tèxòθ/ [tèɣòθ]
udág 'thin; low (volume); high (pitch); dim' /ùθáʕ/ [ùðáʕ]

There are a few caveats. For one, h never voices; it is always voiceless, and as stated above blocks the postvocalic lenition process.

híehí 'any of these (medial)' /híèhí/ [híèhí]
höhsë 'four' /hø̀hsɤ̀/ [hø̀hsɤ̀]
łíkheg 'container' /ɬíkhèʕ/ [ɬíkhèʕ]
mathu 'face' /màthù/ [màthù]

Second, t and k "voice" to r and g (the pharyngeal fricative). "Voicing" of /t/ to r is incomplete in certain circumstances (see below).

koĝ 'gong' → ogĝ 'gongs'
tɯ̀ɹ 'wound, injury' → ìɹùɹ 'injuries'

The sequences nt and ĝk become [ndɹ] and [ŋg].

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Partial rhotacism of /t/ in CT

CT t became [dɹ] in following n, r, and l in CT (though it's still written as t).

hïntéḫ 'wedge' /hɯ̀ntéx/ [hɯ̀ndɹéx]
kortín 'north(ern)' /kòɹtín/ [kòɹdɹín]
lüelti 'forearm' /lỳèltì/ [lỳèldɹì]

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Assibilation in CT

The CT sequences tk and kt regularly yield [tsk] and [kst]:

Atki 'personal name' /àtkì/ [àtskì]
atkïr 'ignorance, neglect, dereliction' /àtkɯ̀ɹ/ [àtskɯ̀ɹ]
îktu 'administer, govern' /ɯ́ktù/ [ɯ́kstù]
náktíh 'text, examination' /náktíh/ [nákstíh]

I like the idea of hVgC- → VhaC-. Perhaps I should generalize it to CVHC- → VCaC-.

kahdí 'plank' (→ akadí) → agadí 'planks'
muḫrog 'plant sp.' (→ umḫrog) → umarog 'multiple of plant sp.'
tágdíd 'coup d'état' (→ átgdíd) → áradíd 'coups d'état'
hagni 'blanket' (→ ahgni) → ahani 'blankets'
(hakni →) hagni 'flame' (→ ahkni) → ahkini 'flames'

I'm going to have to start listing nouns as singular, plural in the dictionary or something based on their etyma.

So let's see if I can get the rules ordered.
1. Geminate → hC
2. CVHC- → VCaC- / CVDC- → CViC- / CVłC- → CVuC-
3. CVCH- → VCC-
4. HVCC- → VCC*-
5. CVSC- → VCSiC-
6. CVCR- → VCCR-
7. CVRC- → VCRC(i)
8. CVCC- → VCCiC-

So I guess the plural really depends on the historical source.

sadkid 'communiqué, message, memo' → asdkid → asdigid 'messages; news; one's correspondence'

sodgu 'champion, contender, representative' → osdgu → osdu 'representatives'

sugdû 'mosquito' → uskdû → uskidû 'mosquitoes'
sugdû 'parcel' → usgdû → usadû 'parcel'

tontú CRC → ornrú

dagḫî → adkḫî → adkî
dagḫî → adgḫî → adaḫî

dahsar 'person, dude' → adhsar → adasar 'people, persons, dudes'

dérḫán 'flower sp.' CHC → édrḫán → édrán 'many such flowers'
dérhán 'popular revolution, revolt' CHC → édtḫán → édtán 'revolutions'

duhgë → udhgë → udagë (dialectal udhë)

gahlór 'landsquid sp.' → aghlór → agalór 'multiple such landsquid'
gahlór 'instance of jewelry' → agllór → agulór 'jewelry'

ĝagróg 'mule' → aĝgróg CHC → aĝaróg 'mules'
ĝagróg 'database' → aĝkróg CSC → aĝkiróg 'databases'

hargúr → ahrkúr hCC → askúr
hargúr → ahtgur CCH → ahtúr

hahré 'rum' → ahhré → aharé 'varieties of rum'
hahré 'death (instance)' → ahtré → atsé 'deaths'

hagleri 'angle' → ahkleri hCC → atłeri 'angles'
hagleri 'type of meat jerky' → ahgleri CHC → ahaleri 'pieces thereof'

helnë 'hailstone' → ehlnë → ełnë 'hailstones'
hełnë 'leech' → ehłnë → ełnë 'leeches' (dialectal ehłinë)

hontos → ohntos → ostos

káhre 'pneumatic tire' → ákrre → ákhre → ágare 'tires'
káhre 'arachnid sp.' → áktre → áktire 'several thereof'

tontú → ornrú [o.rn.rú]