Zompist Bboard Again

Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 4:37 pm

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 4:15 pm
The discipline of psychology has nothing to do with it. When you're young, you're less likely to have a place in the world that's vulnerable to disruption, you have fewer scars inflicted by history, you don't remember firsthand the problems of the old order that the current order legitimates itself against, you have less stale data in your memory cache ("just walk in and give them your resume!"), and so on. If you want a theoretical framework, it's Pirsig's conflict between the static and the dynamic.

Repeating myself:

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Oct 20, 2025 4:32 pm I'm pretty unimpressed by the idea that becoming more mature will make me more interested in singing the praises of a man who posts AI videos of himself dropping actual shit on his opponents while wearing a crown.

Nort seems to think that conservatives are normal, well-adjusted people, when the MAGAts certainly are not.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 4:57 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 4:37 pm

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 4:15 pm
The discipline of psychology has nothing to do with it. When you're young, you're less likely to have a place in the world that's vulnerable to disruption, you have fewer scars inflicted by history, you don't remember firsthand the problems of the old order that the current order legitimates itself against, you have less stale data in your memory cache ("just walk in and give them your resume!"), and so on. If you want a theoretical framework, it's Pirsig's conflict between the static and the dynamic.

Repeating myself:

Raphael wrote: ↑Mon Oct 20, 2025 4:32 pm I'm pretty unimpressed by the idea that becoming more mature will make me more interested in singing the praises of a man who posts AI videos of himself dropping actual shit on his opponents while wearing a crown.

Nort seems to think that conservatives are normal, well-adjusted people, when the MAGAts certainly are not.

Personally I consider MAGA (or Trumpism) to be a variety of fascism, rather than conservatism.

Nortaneous wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 4:15 pm The discipline of psychology has nothing to do with it. When you're young, you're less likely to have a place in the world that's vulnerable to disruption, you have fewer scars inflicted by history, you don't remember firsthand the problems of the old order that the current order legitimates itself against, you have less stale data in your memory cache ("just walk in and give them your resume!"), and so on. If you want a theoretical framework, it's Pirsig's conflict between the static and the dynamic.

In the context of remaining juvenile, you seem to be assuming the lessons you learn from trauma are necessarily justified. That seems obviously false.

bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 4:59 pm Personally I consider MAGA (or Trumpism) to be a variety of fascism, rather than conservatism.

That is probably right.

keenir wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 3:48 pm ???
Dare I ask where you found that chestnut of great dubioiusness for which I can think of no primatologist or anthropologist who would agree with it?

Great apes are known to no longer display the same curiosity they did as juveniles. Why don't you Google it? Curiosity is a defining trait of intelligence.

keenir wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 3:48 pm Are you sure that its not a Marxist claim that failed capitalists attribute all failures to Marxists?

Yes.

bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 4:59 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 4:57 pm

Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 4:37 pm

Repeating myself:

Nort seems to think that conservatives are normal, well-adjusted people, when the MAGAts certainly are not.

Personally I consider MAGA (or Trumpism) to be a variety of fascism, rather than conservatism.

It's what most of the people in some countries who were conservatives a while ago went into.

Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 5:15 pm

bradrn wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 4:59 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 4:57 pm Nort seems to think that conservatives are normal, well-adjusted people, when the MAGAts certainly are not.

Personally I consider MAGA (or Trumpism) to be a variety of fascism, rather than conservatism.

It's what most of the people in some countries who were conservatives a while ago went into.

The thing, though, is that in practice there is a continuum between ostensibly well-adjusted conservatives and rabid, unhinged, foaming-at-the-mouth fascists.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 5:19 pm
The thing, though, is that in practice there is a continuum between ostensibly well-adjusted conservatives and rabid, unhinged, foaming-at-the-mouth fascists.

How different were 1990s talk radio dittoheads from today's MAGAts, really? How different were the Obama-era Tea Partiers?

Raphael wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 5:21 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 5:19 pm
The thing, though, is that in practice there is a continuum between ostensibly well-adjusted conservatives and rabid, unhinged, foaming-at-the-mouth fascists.

How different were 1990s talk radio dittoheads from today's MAGAts, really? How different were the Obama-era Tea Partiers?

Of course, the MAGAts of today are a continuation of the same people who were the dittoheads and Tea Partiers of yore.

rotting bones wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 5:08 pm

keenir wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 3:48 pm ???
Dare I ask where you found that chestnut of great dubioiusness for which I can think of no primatologist or anthropologist who would agree with it?

Great apes are known to no longer display the same curiosity they did as juveniles.

Great Apes are also known not to run around as rapidly or recklessly as when they were little...its almost like speed isn't needed for a 400-pound animal with binocular vision and opposable thumbs.
;p

Why don't you Google it? Curiosity is a defining trait of intelligence.

so is the Sniff Test.

also, I don't google it because I trust the writings of primatologists who have written on the subject.

keenir wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 3:48 pm Are you sure that its not a Marxist claim that failed capitalists attribute all failures to Marxists?

Yes.

the only place I've ever heard any claim that its capitalists - failed or otherwise - who hold back marxists, is here from you, and in propaganda pieces explaining why Mao's China and Stalin's USSR have not attained utopia.

Everything else is the garbage I've come to expect from non-far-left trolls, but this one's important:

keenir wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 9:17 pm I don't google it because I trust the writings of primatologists who have written on the subject.

As a professional researcher, I find related works by searching on Google Scholar. So does my professor. So does everyone I know. Searching is how everyone finds research, including researchers. Just make sure to check the references.

rotting bones wrote: ↑Wed Oct 22, 2025 6:46 am Everything else is the garbage I've come to expect from non-far-left trolls, but this one's important:

thank you for saying I'm not a troll; you're good people too. we both have trouble with our wording.

keenir wrote: ↑Tue Oct 21, 2025 9:17 pm I don't google it because I trust the writings of primatologists who have written on the subject.

As a professional researcher,

Its possible I have unintentionally mentally conflated you with someone else (apologies if i have), according to my recollection, half the time any of us have asked you to look something up in the course of a discussion - assuming it doesn't touch on socialism - you say that you can't do that,, because you're a poor man (in at least one sense of the word) in a small town in northern India where people want to kill you for your opinion.

I find related works by searching on Google Scholar. So does my professor. So does everyone I know.

well, now you know someone who uses bookstores and libraries.

check the references

I find Author: Jane Goodall usually works.

You might already have heard about this, but just in case you haven't...

The Secretary of Health and Human Services is very concerned about the declining quality of America's precious bodily fluids. Yes, specifically that precious bodily fluid: https://www.techdirt.com/2025/10/21/rfk ... erm-count/

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Oct 22, 2025 3:21 pm You might already have heard about this, but just in case you haven't...

The Secretary of Health and Human Services is very concerned about the declining quality of America's precious bodily fluids. Yes, specifically that precious bodily fluid: https://www.techdirt.com/2025/10/21/rfk ... erm-count/

Does he blame water fluoridation for this?

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Oct 22, 2025 3:35 pm
Does he blame water fluoridation for this?

Possible, but at least as likely that he's blaming general environmental damage. Yes, that's an unusual concern for a Trump Administration member, but keep in mind that he did some half-way serious environmental activism before he switched parties. He might still have some half-remembered instinctive approaches from that time left somewhere in some corner of his mind.

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Oct 22, 2025 3:45 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Oct 22, 2025 3:35 pm Does he blame water fluoridation for this?

Possible, but at least as likely that he's blaming general environmental damage. Yes, that's an unusual concern for a Trump Administration member, but keep in mind that he did some half-way serious environmental activism before he switched parties. He might still have some half-remembered instinctive approaches from that time left somewhere in some corner of his mind.

At least the guy does not control any nuclear weapons bases...

Finally half-way back on topic after Rotting Bones got us sidetracked on the wrong senile apes. While the recent No Kings protests are promising, I am quite concerned about the inroads that MAGA has made with young people. Winning over elderly and middle-aged people in the present hardly matters if the demographics of the country are trending toward the right. Has any progress been made on countering all those right wing podcasters?

malloc wrote: ↑Wed Oct 22, 2025 3:48 pm Finally half-way back on topic after Rotting Bones got us sidetracked on the wrong senile apes. While the recent No Kings protests are promising, I am quite concerned about the inroads that MAGA has made with young people. Winning over elderly and middle-aged people in the present hardly matters if the demographics of the country are trending toward the right. Has any progress been made on countering all those right wing podcasters?

Have you even read what zompist has repeatedly said here about how both people get more liberal as they get older and younger people overall do get more liberal as time progresses?

Raphael wrote: ↑Wed Oct 22, 2025 3:45 pm

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Oct 22, 2025 3:35 pm
Does he blame water fluoridation for this?

Possible, but at least as likely that he's blaming general environmental damage. Yes, that's an unusual concern for a Trump Administration member, but keep in mind that he did some half-way serious environmental activism before he switched parties. He might still have some half-remembered instinctive approaches from that time left somewhere in some corner of his mind.

And wild French fish are suffering from "feminising chemicals". Said chemicals don't do female fish any good either.

Travis B. wrote: ↑Wed Oct 22, 2025 4:02 pmHave you even read what zompist has repeatedly said here about how both people get more liberal as they get older and younger people overall do get more liberal as time progresses?

Sure but that involves numerous caveats in this case. First, more liberal than Andrew Tate or Nick Fuentes still leaves you extremely right wing. We should hardly cheer if zoomers soften their stance from banning LGBT entirely to merely banning same-sex marriage. Second, old people liberalize because they live in a culture dominated by increasingly liberal people younger than themselves. If young people are no longer liberal, than older people no longer face cultural pressure to liberalize.