Zompist Bboard Again

Qassusitsimammaaq "kaajuga" itsaammara qiimima pitaasimikilaamarannuu ulluma.
There used to exist something called "time" which allowed one to create plenty of words.

Dē Graut Bʉr wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:59 amThere used to exist something called "time" which allowed one to create plenty of words.

"Taym", a a, mistari ting som man boc dem af, oba mos mos man soso luk im pas.
"Time", heheh, a myhtical thing some claim they have, but most people just see passing by.


JAL

Iɲāthicīcɨzechi chathan ēmanayomp! (Niŋ micā yēꞵanaŋū.)
/iˈɲaːɹiˌciːcɨzeˌɰi ɰaˈɹan ˈeːmaˌnajomp | niŋ miˈcaː ˈjeːβanaŋˌuː/

|[iɲat-ic]-icə-ɨze-kɨ

[ill-ACT]-CAUS-stop-AGT

chat-ən

one-th

əʷ-e-maⁿ-nə-yomp!

1s.O-NP-PFV-MED-give!

(nɨŋ

(two

mica

sun

əʷ-rəʷ-e-maⁿ-raŋu.)|

3s.O-3ns.A-NP-PFV-pass)

I got my first vaccine! (Two days ago.)

Hallow XIII wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:48 am Mñwdf gmduoj nah n dbi kspwabh grah qtxi nah n iqtagdauf qbeh, nu dkmcf dññwdf gmduoj n kxpozah ktaxqau n ikcf gdrtch n qbeh qreij. Mñwdf e n ogsxa kñdau n tazbabh n xdcduod zij n dbzwj ktxi gxpudf zurgcj ñtaxqau ikcf gdrtch n qbeh qreij e.

More: show

m-ñwdf 0-gmduoj nah n dbi k-spwah=b grah qtxi nah n i-q-tagdauf q-beh,
REAL-be cIX-difficulty OBL/1s OBL always CONTG-make=APPL 1s language OBL/1s OBL cIX-cIV-collection cIV-word,

n=u d-kmcf d-ñ-ñwdf 0-gmduoj n k-xpozah k-taxqau n ikcf 0-gdrtch n q-beh q-reij.
OBL=ABL cV-reason cV-NMLZ-be cIX-difficulty OBL CONTG-imagine CONTG-organize OBL how cIX-lineal_descent OBL cIV-word cIV-new.

m-ñwdf e n og=sxa k-ñdau n tazbabh n xdcduod z-ij n d-bzwj k-txi 0-gxpudf
REAL-be EXPL OBL NEG=fortunate CONTG-become/PFV OBL important OBL particular cIX-this OBL cV-time CONTG-speak cIX-concept

z-urgcj ñ-taxqau n ikcf 0-gdrtch n q-beh q-reij e.
cIX-resemble NMLZ-organize OBL how cIX-derivation OBL cIV-word cIV-new EXPL.

I always find it difficult to make a vocabulary for my languages, because I have difficulties with figuring out how derivation should work. Unfortunately, this is particularly important when talking about concepts like "derivation".

???????

I have exactly the same problem! None of my languages have any derivational morphology. I really need to make some.

(And I’ll give you one guess as to why I can’t translate this into any of my languages. Wēchizaŋkəŋ at least makes extremely productive use of participles/headless relatives, which helps somewhat — e.g. iɲāthicīcɨzechi above — but there’s no easy way to cast, say, ‘derivation’ as one. ‘It-lets-you-make-words’, perhaps, but that sounds a bit too roundabout even for Wēchizaŋkəŋ.)

jal wrote: ↑Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:23 am

Dē Graut Bʉr wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:59 amThere used to exist something called "time" which allowed one to create plenty of words.

"Taym", a a, mistari ting som man boc dem af, oba mos mos man soso luk im pas.
"Time", heheh, a myhtical thing some claim they have, but most people just see passing by.

Uh, tzémpfs ... vos nontzempfs hazes assatz d'il.
'Ooh, time ... you never have enough of it.'
On dichez, "Tzémpfs est monéz."
'They say, "Time is money."'
Mas tzémpfs est pflus precjos que monéz.
'But time is more precious than money.'
Vos ravézes quelcfés vos monéz, mas vos ravézes nontzempfs vos tzémpfs.
'You sometimes get your money back, but you never get your time back.'

Ṭāwēr am θondah hē moham eqom.

ṭāwēr

PRF\say

am

SUB

θondah

time

hē

this

moha-m

great-SUB

e-qom

HAB-take

They say time is a great thief.

bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:23 am Iɲāthicīcɨzechi chathan ēmanayomp! (Niŋ micā yēꞵanaŋū.)
/iˈɲaːɹiˌciːcɨzeˌɰi ɰaˈɹan ˈeːmaˌnajomp | niŋ miˈcaː ˈjeːβanaŋˌuː/

|[iɲat-ic]-icə-ɨze-kɨ

[ill-ACT]-CAUS-stop-AGT

chat-ən

one-th

əʷ-e-maⁿ-nə-yomp!

1s.O-NP-PFV-MED-give!

(nɨŋ

(two

mica

sun

əʷ-rəʷ-e-maⁿ-raŋu.)|

3s.O-3ns.A-NP-PFV-pass)

I got my first vaccine! (Two days ago.)

Hallow XIII wrote: ↑Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:48 am Mñwdf gmduoj nah n dbi kspwabh grah qtxi nah n iqtagdauf qbeh, nu dkmcf dññwdf gmduoj n kxpozah ktaxqau n ikcf gdrtch n qbeh qreij. Mñwdf e n ogsxa kñdau n tazbabh n xdcduod zij n dbzwj ktxi gxpudf zurgcj ñtaxqau ikcf gdrtch n qbeh qreij e.

More: show

m-ñwdf 0-gmduoj nah n dbi k-spwah=b grah qtxi nah n i-q-tagdauf q-beh,
REAL-be cIX-difficulty OBL/1s OBL always CONTG-make=APPL 1s language OBL/1s OBL cIX-cIV-collection cIV-word,

n=u d-kmcf d-ñ-ñwdf 0-gmduoj n k-xpozah k-taxqau n ikcf 0-gdrtch n q-beh q-reij.
OBL=ABL cV-reason cV-NMLZ-be cIX-difficulty OBL CONTG-imagine CONTG-organize OBL how cIX-lineal_descent OBL cIV-word cIV-new.

m-ñwdf e n og=sxa k-ñdau n tazbabh n xdcduod z-ij n d-bzwj k-txi 0-gxpudf
REAL-be EXPL OBL NEG=fortunate CONTG-become/PFV OBL important OBL particular cIX-this OBL cV-time CONTG-speak cIX-concept

z-urgcj ñ-taxqau n ikcf 0-gdrtch n q-beh q-reij e.
cIX-resemble NMLZ-organize OBL how cIX-derivation OBL cIV-word cIV-new EXPL.

I always find it difficult to make a vocabulary for my languages, because I have difficulties with figuring out how derivation should work. Unfortunately, this is particularly important when talking about concepts like "derivation".

???????

I have exactly the same problem! None of my languages have any derivational morphology. I really need to make some.

(And I’ll give you one guess as to why I can’t translate this into any of my languages. Wēchizaŋkəŋ at least makes extremely productive use of participles/headless relatives, which helps somewhat — e.g. iɲāthicīcɨzechi above — but there’s no easy way to cast, say, ‘derivation’ as one. ‘It-lets-you-make-words’, perhaps, but that sounds a bit too roundabout even for Wēchizaŋkəŋ.)

Txqtxau grah n pkrcb n zapscf qbeh kqtxau dau grah kizeh n ñgdgwaj zogzij iñpuof n qogzcj.
[təχqətʰħɔ́ ʕɻɑ̂n pʰkʰɻ̥ǽwn jɑpsæ̌ qʰɓê kəqʰtʰħɔlɔ́ ʕɻɑ̂ kijên ŋəʕdʕɯ̀ə jɵʕzì iŋpǔən ʡɵʕjæ̀.]

tx~

HAB~

q-

cIV.O-

txau

use

grah

1s

n

OBL

pkrcb

just

n

OBL

zapscf

frequent

q-

cIV-

beh

word

k-

CONTG-

q-

cIV.O-

txau

use

=dau

-PFV

grah

1s

kizeh

already

n

OBL

∅-

cIX-

gdgwaj

meaning

z-

cIX-

og-

NEG-

zij

like

i-

cIX-

ñ-

NMLZ-

puof

simple

n

OBL

qogzcj

big

.
I just often reuse words that I already used for simpler meanings.

(e.g. gdrtch for "derivation", which in-world would mostly be used to mean "descent from someone").

Hallow XIII wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:05 amI just often reuse words that I already used for simpler meanings.

Oba dis in wo dirayf mohfoloji min. Dirayf mohfoloji u dohn prefis o sofis an an, fi olta mining an/o tahn woh ya ina difa sintas katagri.
But that's not what derivational morphology means. Derivational morphology is adding a prefix or suffix etc., to change the meaning and/or change the word into a different syntactic category.


JAL

bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:23 am (And I’ll give you one guess as to why I can’t translate this into any of my languages. Wēchizaŋkəŋ at least makes extremely productive use of participles/headless relatives, which helps somewhat — e.g. iɲāthicīcɨzechi above — but there’s no easy way to cast, say, ‘derivation’ as one. ‘It-lets-you-make-words’, perhaps, but that sounds a bit too roundabout even for Wēchizaŋkəŋ.)

θeŋ ṭo ealseŋuḫ he qaandam he laqom ealseŋuḫu

θeŋ

but

ṭo

thus

he

that

qaandam

respectable

he

that

laqom

suitable

ealseŋuḫu

word-HAB-make-POT

But that can be a perfectly suitable derivation.

bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:23 am ???????

Kumojarippamissii tallumai! Pitaasikkutuna ukooqqaa!
Seven question marks! What a beautiful language!

jal wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:21 am

Hallow XIII wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:05 amI just often reuse words that I already used for simpler meanings.

Oba dis in wo dirayf mohfoloji min. Dirayf mohfoloji u dohn prefis o sofis an an, fi olta mining an/o tahn woh ya ina difa sintas katagri.
But that's not what derivational morphology means. Derivational morphology is adding a prefix or suffix etc., to change the meaning and/or change the word into a different syntactic category.


JAL

Mipñaj bri grah ñzapkuf n ndej.

m-

REAL-

i-

cIX.O-

pñaj

demand

=bri

-CONT

grah

1s

∅-

cIX-

ñ-

NMLZ-

zapkuf

fight

n

OBL

ndej

2s

I challenge you to a duel.

(What I meant to say with the previous post is that it's not necessarily sensible, in my view, to try to approach word formation in conlangs for use in contexts like this by insisting on finding a distinct word for every jargon meaning of every technical term you might encounter. Instead, you can do what real languages usually do de facto and overload a more general term with specific meanings, like how it works with "derivation" in English).

Ares Land wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:41 am Ṭāwēr am θondah hē moham eqom.

ṭāwēr

PRF\say

am

SUB

θondah

time

hē

this

moha-m

great-SUB

e-qom

HAB-take

They say time is a great thief.

A denas bekat üsutinas nat birnemmek tatimem
I think-past-masc-sg that procrastination be-pres-masc-sg thief-nom-sg time-gen-sg

I thought procrastination was the thief of time

Hallow XIII wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:05 am Txqtxau grah n pkrcb n zapscf qbeh kqtxau dau grah kizeh n ñgdgwaj zogzij iñpuof n qogzcj.
[təχqətʰħɔ́ ʕɻɑ̂n pʰkʰɻ̥ǽwn jɑpsæ̌ qʰɓê kəqʰtʰħɔlɔ́ ʕɻɑ̂ kijên ŋəʕdʕɯ̀ə jɵʕzì iŋpǔən ʡɵʕjæ̀.]

tx~

HAB~

q-

cIV.O-

txau

use

grah

1s

n

OBL

pkrcb

just

n

OBL

zapscf

frequent

q-

cIV-

beh

word

k-

CONTG-

q-

cIV.O-

txau

use

=dau

-PFV

grah

1s

kizeh

already

n

OBL

∅-

cIX-

gdgwaj

meaning

z-

cIX-

og-

NEG-

zij

like

i-

cIX-

ñ-

NMLZ-

puof

simple

n

OBL

qogzcj

big

.
I just often reuse words that I already used for simpler meanings.

Bewaq qatla ndeqis fas ŋay tuq!
/bəˈwaʔ ˈʔat͡ɬa ˈⁿdəʔis fas ŋaj tuʔ/

I=do thing stabilise be.at it very!

I do exactly the same thing!

Dē Graut Bʉr wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 2:54 am

bradrn wrote: ↑Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:23 am ???????

Kumojarippamissii tallumai! Pitaasikkutuna ukooqqaa!
Seven question marks! What a beautiful language!

????????? ?????????????????????????????

I don’t know, I can’t say I’m excessively fond of it.

COVIDisillumarippa aviniilluu piqaakkaa artorriq. Wandervirusi monnikitat Baskii maraaritat kiimarunasassavi. Takukkaasinutunamaap.
The COVID vaccine doesn't work because the world is flat. The Basque monks of the wanderviruses said so, so it must be true. I am always serious.

Talskubilos est nuster salvazer.
'Talskubilos is our saviour.'

Il conjosez la verizaz.
'He knows the truth.'

悪しい人もう 在り。「をるしいびとうもうあり。」
Worushi futo mo ari.
[wò̞ᵝ.ɺʉ́ᵝˑ.ɕì fʉ́ᵝˑ.t̪ò̞ᵝ m͜͜ò̞ᵝ ɐ̞́ˑ.ɾ̪ʲì]
"He is such a great person."

嘘 在り。「むそう あり。」
Muso ari.
[mʉ́ᵝˑ.s̪ò̞ᵝ ɐ̞́ˑ.ɾ̪ʲì]
"This isn't a lie."

nye hinan kyo'ampa ka
Why is it so quiet here?

Silaata maralluriq.
Because no-one is talking.

It me rakit nahf no tok.
There can be noise without talking.


JAL

Idwaina mognir med weruga hildehyo gaude.

Id-wain-a

CONT-STA-1s

mognir

busy

med

because

we-rug-a

INC-LOC-1s

hildehyo

learning.place

gau-de.

ago-PROX

I have been busy because I just started college

Skul de a yon de.
School days are long gone.


JAL