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Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:40 am
by mèþru
I like the <x>. I'm going to redo the romanisation in my usual style and incorporate that:
Maaohoŋ
/p t k/ <p t k>
/m n ŋ/ <m n ŋ>
/ɸ s h/ <f s h>
/t͡s/ <ts>
/ʍ w j/ <x v j>
/l/ <l>
/iː uː i̞ ʉ̞ eː oː ɛ ɔ æ̈ ɑː/ <ii uu i u ee oo e o a aa>
Stress is indicated with an acute mark (on the second letter in a long vowel), assimilation of <ŋ> is never written
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:48 am
by mèþru
Phonotactic rule I forgot:
ei and ou become long e and o
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:45 am
by Nortaneous
Consonants: (low / high)
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <sm sn sny sng> / <m n ny ng>
/pʰ tʰ cʰ kʰ/ <ph th ch kh> / <b d j g>
/p t c k/ <sp st sc sk> / <rb rd rj rg>
/ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ/ <p t c k> / <mb md mj mg>
/f s x/ <sw s sl> / <v z gh>
/v z ɣ/ <w r l> / <rw mr ml>
/l j/ <ly y> / <rly ry>
/0/ <0> / <h>
Vowels:
High:
/i ɯ u/ <i u o>
/ɛ ʌ ɔ/ <e a au>
/iə uə/ <ia ua>
Low:
/e ɤ o/ <i u o>
/a ɑ aɯ/ <e a au>
Monophthongs can occur both short and long. <l>
Tones:
In words which do not end in a stop, there are five tones: ˧ ˥ ˨˩ ˥˨ ˦˥ ˦˥˦. <0 b- -s b-s -d b-d>
In words which end in a stop, there are only two tones: ˥ ˩. <b- 0>
Sample sentences:
/ɲɛː˦˥˦ ŋo˧ ʌ˧ ɠa͡ɯp˥ ɣɑc˥/
bnyeld sngo ha bkaup blac
/lɯ˧ cʰɑ˥ɣeː˦˥˦ tʰi˥tʰik˩ ɑm˥˨ ŋo˧/
rlyu bchablild bdidik bams sngo
/voŋ˦˥ ɑm˥˨ tʰi͡əɲ˨˩ ʌ˧ jeːm˥ saː˦˥lɯp˩/
wongd bams dianys ha yilms seldrlyup
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:13 pm
by Birdlang
I’m working on getting an alternate orthography for Modern Standard Birdish. The conworld’s schoolbooks are starting to be made and they are looking for an alternate orthography that is easier to read
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/p b t d k g ʔ/
/ɸ β s z ʃ ʒ x~h ɣ/
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ/
/l ʎ j ɰ~ɣʷ/
/ɾ r/
/ɮ/
/i ʉ u ʊ e ə ɤ o ɛ ʌ ɔ a/
Vowels can be lengthened.
Current orthography
m n ñ ŋ
p b t d k g ʼ/h (first one at end of syllables, second at beginning)
f v s z x j ḥ ģ/ɣ (both can be used, symbol used to be ǥ with a stroke through the bowl glyph if it displays that way for you)
ç ȝ c ĵ
l l̃ y w
r ṛ
ḷ
i ü u ö e ĕ ŏ o ė ŭ ȯ a
Long vowels are written with macron or are doubled (second letter doesn’t get accent), or h after vowel at ends of words.
I’m looking to get a new orthography as the school kids will start school in a few weeks. I don’t have any example texts but I can explain the allophones.
The w gets its rounded phoneme before rounded vowels and after a fricative. If not before a rounded vowel but after a fricative, the labialization is not used so just /ɣ/. The ģ becomes backed in some dialects after back vowels or palatized /ʝ/ after front vowels and central vowels.
In many dialects, the sound /ʝ/ is separate, written as ȳ.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:35 pm
by bradrn
Birdish:
/m n ɲ ŋ/ ⟨m n nh ng⟩
/p b t d k g ʔ/ ⟨p b t d k g ʼ⟩
/ɸ β s z ʃ ʒ x~h ɣ/ ⟨f v s z š ž x xh⟩
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ/ ⟨c j č ǰ⟩ (NB: ⟨ǰ⟩ is meant to be ⟨j⟩ with a caron/háček on it, but for me the forum font doesn’t display it correctly)
/l ʎ j ɰ~ɣʷ/ ⟨l lh y w⟩
/ɾ r/ ⟨r rr⟩
/ɮ/ ⟨dl⟩
Allophony is not shown in the orthography
/i ʉ u ʊ e ə ɤ o ɛ ʌ ɔ a/ ⟨i ü u û e ë ô o ẹ ộ ọ a⟩
Long vowels are written double
Birdlang wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:13 pm
The conworld’s schoolbooks are starting to be made and they are looking for an alternate orthography that is easier to read
I’m curious about this. Who does ‘they’ refer to?
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:19 pm
by Nortaneous
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n nj ng>
/p b t d k g ʔ/ <p b t d k g q>
/ɸ β s z ʃ ʒ x~h ɣ/ <f v s z sh zh h ğ>
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ/ <c x ç xh>
/l ʎ j ɰ~ɣʷ/ <l lj j w>
/ɾ r/ <r rr>
/ɮ/ <ll>
/i ʉ u ʊ e ə ɤ o ɛ ʌ ɔ a/
<i y u ü e ë û o ê â ô a>
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:43 am
by Birdlang
“They” refers to the Birdish people who are part of the language institution for the Birdish languages @bradrn.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:56 pm
by Birdlang
Came up with something now
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ň/nj ń/ng compare to m n ñ ŋ or m n ɲ ŋ in old orthography
/p b t d k g ʔ/ p b t d k g q or p b t d k g '/h or p b t d k g ɋ/h in old orthography
/ɸ β s z ʃ ʒ x~h ɣ/ f v s z š/sj ž/zj h ğ or f v s z x j ḥ ɣ or ꝑ (should be p with stroke through the descender if your system displays it) ƀ s z š ž ꝁ (k with stroke)/ɦ ǥ in old orthography
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ/ c j/dz č/cj ǰ/dzj or ç ȝ c ĵ or c ʒ č ǯ in old orthography
/l ʎ j ɰ~ɣʷ/ l ľ/lj ŷ/j ŵ/w or l l̃ y w or l ł j v in old orthography
/ɾ r/ r ŕ/rr or r ṛ or r ɽ in old orthography
/ɮ/ ł/ll or ḷ or ɬ in old orthography
/i ʉ u ʊ e ə ɤ o ɛ ʌ ɔ a/ i y/eu u w/eo ê/ei ă/ea ö/oe ô/ou e ü/ue o a or i ü u ö e ĕ ŏ o ė ŭ ȯ a or i ũ u v é e ō ó è o ò a
Vowels can be lengthened= plus grave accent (umlaut becomes double grave accent)/doubled (first) vowel in ASCII orthography or macron in second or ː after in third.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 3:06 pm
by Karch
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n nh ng>
/p b t d k g ʔ/ <p b t d k g '>
/ɸ β s z ʃ ʒ x~h ɣ/ <f v s z sh zh h x>
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ/ <ts dz c j>
/l ʎ j ɰ~ɣʷ/ <l ly y w>
/ɾ r/ <r r̄>
/ɮ/ <ḻ>
/i ʉ u ʊ e ə ɤ o ɛ ʌ ɔ a/ <i ü u û e ï ë o ê ä ô a>
Vowels can be lengthened. <VV>
----
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n z g>
/pʰ tʰ cʰ kʰ/ <p t c k>
/p t c k/ <b d j g>
/ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ/ <'b 'd 'j 'g>
/f s x/ <f s x>
/v z ɣ/ <v r q>
/l j/ <l y>
/i ɯ u/ <i ui u>
/e ɤ o/ <e oi o>
/ɛ ʌ ɔ/ <ae oe ao>
/a ɑ/ <a ao>
/iə uə aɯ/ <ie uo au>
Monophthongs can occur both short and long. <V VV> (when the vowel's written with a digraph, the first character is doubled)
In words which do not end in a stop, there are five tones: ˧ ˥ ˨˩ ˥˨ ˦˥ ˦˥˦. <V V́ hV hV̀ hV́ V̀>
In words which end in a stop, there are only two tones: ˥ ˩. <V hV>
/ɲɛː˦˥˦ ŋo˧ ʌ˧ ɠa͡ɯp˥ ɣɑc˥/
/lɯ˧ cʰɑ˥ɣeː˦˥˦ tʰi˥tʰik˩ ɑm˥˨ ŋo˧/
/voŋ˦˥ ɑm˥˨ tʰi͡əɲ˨˩ ʌ˧ jeːm˥ saː˦˥lɯp˩/
Nyààe ngo eo 'gáub qáoj.
Lui cáoqèè títhig hàom ngo.
Vhóng hàom thieny eo yéém shálhuib.
----
[ˈmɑː.ɔ.ɦɔŋ] <'maccg>
p t k <p t k>
m n ŋ <m n g~n~m>
ɸ s h <f s h>
t͡s <j>
ʍ w j <q w y>
l <l>
/iː uː i̞ ʉ̞ eː oː ɛ ɔ æ̈ ɑː/ <i u z r e o v c x a>
Stress is marked with an apostrophe preceding the stressed syllable.
kɛ tɛ.huːŋ ki̞ŋ.tɑː.puː.tɛ i̞ŋ.soː oːŋ.t͡si̞ŋ æ̈ŋ ɛŋ.t͡sʉ̞.mʉ̞ŋ.koː moː.pʉ̞.eː uː.joː sʉ̞.neːŋ ɸuː iːŋ pɔ.li̞.kæ̈.næ̈ŋ ʉ̞ŋ.sæ̈ uːŋ t͡sʉ̞ŋ tɔ.uː.kɔŋ tʉ̞.ɛŋ iː.ɑː kɑːŋ.toː.ɑːŋ.sɑːŋ.eː i̞ŋ.tʉ̞ ɑːŋ.t͡si̞ŋ mʉ̞ŋ.oː.lʉ̞.keːŋ.sɔŋ kæ̈ŋ.ɸi̞ŋ.ɛŋ æ̈ŋ.eːŋ.ɑː.ʉ̞ŋ.suːŋ ti̞ŋ.sɑːŋ ʍɑːŋ.tɛŋ kɔ.wɑːŋ
kv tvhug kzntaputv znso onjzg xg vnjrmrgko mopre uyo srneg fu ig pclzkxnxg rnsx ug jrg tcukcg trvg ia kantoansage zntr anjzg mrgolrkenscg kxmfzgvg xgegarnsug tznsag qantvg kcwag
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 7:27 pm
by Nortaneous
p t k <p t k>
m n ŋ <m n g>
ɸ s h <f s h>
t͡s <c>
ʍ w j <bh b y>
l <l>
/iː uː i̞ ʉ̞ eː oː ɛ ɔ æ̈ ɑː/ <i u w v e o z q x a>
kɛ tɛ.huːŋ ki̞ŋ.tɑː.puː.tɛ i̞ŋ.soː oːŋ.t͡si̞ŋ æ̈ŋ ɛŋ.t͡sʉ̞.mʉ̞ŋ.koː moː.pʉ̞.eː uː.joː sʉ̞.neːŋ ɸuː iːŋ pɔ.li̞.kæ̈.næ̈ŋ ʉ̞ŋ.sæ̈ uːŋ t͡sʉ̞ŋ tɔ.uː.kɔŋ tʉ̞.ɛŋ iː.ɑː kɑːŋ.toː.ɑːŋ.sɑːŋ.eː i̞ŋ.tʉ̞ ɑːŋ.t͡si̞ŋ mʉ̞ŋ.oː.lʉ̞.keːŋ.sɔŋ kæ̈ŋ.ɸi̞ŋ.ɛŋ æ̈ŋ.eːŋ.ɑː.ʉ̞ŋ.suːŋ ti̞ŋ.sɑːŋ ʍɑːŋ.tɛŋ kɔ.wɑːŋ
Kz tzhu kwgtaputz wgso ogcwg xg zgcvmvgko mopve uyo svneg bhu ig pqlwkxnxg vgsx ug cvg tqukqg tvzg ia kagtoagsage wgtv agcwg mvgolvkegsqg kxgbhwgzg xgegavgsug twgsag bhagtzg kqbag.
---
p t k <p t k>
m n ŋ <m n ̨>
ɸ s h <f s h>
t͡s <c>
ʍ w j <wh w y>
l <l>
/iː uː i̞ ʉ̞ eː oː ɛ ɔ æ̈ ɑː/ <í ú i u é ó e o a á>
Ke tehų́ kįtápúte įsó ǫ́cį ą ęcumųkó mópué úyó sunę́ fú į́ polikaną ųsa ų́ cų toúkǫ tuę íá ką́tóą́są́é įtu ą́cį mųólukę́sǫ kąfįę ąę́áųsų́ tįsą́ whą́tę kową́.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:20 pm
by Karch
Ersu /ɚ́sv̩́ xò/
/p t t̪s̪ t̻s̻ ʈɽ tɕ k/
/pʰ tʰ t̪s̪ʰ t̻s̻ʰ ʈɽʰ tɕʰ kʰ/
/b d d̪z̪ d̻z̻ ɖɽ dʑ ɡ/
/m n ŋ/
/ɽ͡r/
/f s̪ s̻ ɬ ɕ x/
/v z̪ z̻ ʑ/
/w l j/
All stops and affricates can be prenasalized. There's also a series of clusters with a "schwa-like element": /əp ət ək əts̪ əts̻ ətɕ əx əb əd əɡ əz̪ əm ən əŋ/. Preaspirated voiceless stops occur in some Tibetan loanwords.
/z̩ v̩ i ɛ ɚ a a˞ o/
/ŋ̩/
There's also vowel nasalization, but it only occurs in Mandarin loanwords and in two native words.
/á à/ - in monosyllabic words.
In polysyllabic words, there are three tone patterns (one's marginal though, occurring in Mandarin loanwords and a handful of native words): low-high, high-high (and high-low, which is the marginal one).
/tɛ́ njó tɛ́ kɛ́ nɛ́ | mɛ́ɚ́ lá mát̪s̪ʰá=d̪z̪í d̪ɛ̀d̪z̪v̩̀d̪z̪v̩̀á dʑí || nɛ̀ nɛ́=wó tʰɛ́ táwá xíbá ká | xíbá ká xá nɛ́ nɛ́=wó dɛ̀ⁿdʑìⁿdʑí | s̪ɛ́tɛ́=wó xá nɛ́ s̪ɛ́tɛ́=wó jáŋá dʑìá | s̪ɛ́tɛ́=wó xá nɛ́ s̪ɛ́tɛ́=wó s̻òmó jàd̻z̻ó dʑìá | ⁿdʑíⁿdʑí || nɛ́ⁿdʑíⁿdʑí nɛ́ⁿdʑíⁿdʑí nɛ́ tʰɛ̀á tɛ́=wó tɛ́á tʰàkʰá mà=pʰá | tʰɛ́=kɛ́ nɛ́ ⁿd̻z̻á ɽ͡rź̩kʰwá ᶯɖɽv̩̀s̻z̩̀s̪v̩́ tɛ́ ŋàlá dʑìɡɛ̀á | ᶯɖɽv̩̀s̻z̩̀s̪v̩́ lɛ́ ətɕí ᵑɡámɛ́ ját̪s̪ʰá jàkʰwá tát̪s̪ʰá dɛ̀z̻ź̩ t̪s̪á dʑìɡɛ́/
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:31 pm
by Karch
/ɚ́sv̩́ xò/ <ersu hò>
/p t t̪s̪ t̻s̻ ʈɽ tɕ k/ <b d z zr dr j g>
/pʰ tʰ t̪s̪ʰ t̻s̻ʰ ʈɽʰ tɕʰ kʰ/ <p t c cr tr q k>
/b d d̪z̪ d̻z̻ ɖɽ dʑ ɡ/ <bb dd zz zzr ddr jj gg>
/m n ŋ/ <m n ng>
/ɽ͡r/ <rr>
/f s̪ s̻ ɬ ɕ x/ <f s sr lh x h>
/v z̪ z̻ ʑ/ <v ss r xx>
/w l j/ <w l y>
All stops and affricates can be prenasalized. <nC mb n'g ngg> There's also a series of clusters with a "schwa-like element": /əp ət ək əts̪ əts̻ ətɕ əx əb əd əɡ əz̪ əm ən əŋ/ <'C>. Preaspirated voiceless stops occur in some Tibetan loanwords. <hC>
/z̩ v̩ i ɛ ɚ a a˞ o/ <ir u i e er a ar o>
/ŋ̩/ <ng>
There's also vowel nasalization <Vnh>, but it only occurs in Mandarin loanwords and in two native words.
/á à/ <a à>- in monosyllabic words.
In polysyllabic words, there are three tone patterns (one's marginal though, occurring in Mandarin loanwords and a handful of native words): low-high (grave accent on the first vowel in the word), high-high (unmarked) (and high-low (grave accent on the last vowel of the word), which is the marginal one).
/tɛ́ njó tɛ́ kɛ́ nɛ́ | mɛ́ɚ́ lá mát̪s̪ʰá=d̪z̪í d̪ɛ̀d̪z̪v̩̀d̪z̪v̩̀á dʑí || nɛ̀ nɛ́=wó tʰɛ́ táwá xíbá ká | xíbá ká xá nɛ́ nɛ́=wó dɛ̀ⁿdʑìⁿdʑí | s̪ɛ́tɛ́=wó xá nɛ́ s̪ɛ́tɛ́=wó jáŋá dʑìá | s̪ɛ́tɛ́=wó xá nɛ́ s̪ɛ́tɛ́=wó s̻òmó jàd̻z̻ó dʑìá | ⁿdʑíⁿdʑí || nɛ́ⁿdʑíⁿdʑí nɛ́ⁿdʑíⁿdʑí nɛ́ tʰɛ̀á tɛ́=wó tɛ́á tʰàkʰá mà=pʰá | tʰɛ́=kɛ́ nɛ́ ⁿd̻z̻á ɽ͡rź̩kʰwá ᶯɖɽv̩̀s̻z̩̀s̪v̩́ tɛ́ ŋàlá dʑìɡɛ̀á | ᶯɖɽv̩̀s̻z̩̀s̪v̩́ lɛ́ ətɕí ᵑɡámɛ́ ját̪s̪ʰá jàkʰwá tát̪s̪ʰá dɛ̀z̻ź̩ t̪s̪á dʑìɡɛ́/
De nyo de ge ne, me-er la maca-zzi ddèzzuzzua jji. Nè ne-wo te dawa hibba ga, hibba ga ha ne ne-wo ddènjjinjji, sede-wo ha ne sede-wo yanga jìa, sede-wo ha ne sede-wo sròmo yàzzro jìa, njjinjji. Nenjjinjji nenjjinjji ne tèa de-wo dea tàka mà-pa, tege ne nzzra rrirkwa nddrùsrirsu de ngàla jjìggea, nddrùsrirsu le 'ji nggame yaca yàkwa daca ddèzrir za jjìgge.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:50 pm
by bradrn
/ɚ́sv̩́ xò/ ⟨ersv̈ hoq⟩
Consonants:
/p t t̪s̪ t̻s̻ ʈɽ tɕ k/ ⟨p' t' th' ts' tr' ch' k'⟩
/pʰ tʰ t̪s̪ʰ t̻s̻ʰ ʈɽʰ tɕʰ kʰ/ ⟨p t th ts tr ch k⟩
/b d d̪z̪ d̻z̻ ɖɽ dʑ ɡ/ ⟨b d dh dz dr j g⟩
/m n ŋ/ ⟨m n ŋ⟩
/ɽ͡r/ ⟨r⟩
/f s̪ s̻ ɬ ɕ x/ ⟨f ss s lh sh h⟩
/v z̪ z̻ ʑ/ ⟨v zz z zh⟩
/w l j/ ⟨w l y⟩
(Question: Exactly how are /s̻/ and /z̻/ different? Normally, they would differ in voicing, but you’ve given them both the voiceless diacritic…)
Prenasalised consonants:
/ᵐp ⁿt ⁿt̪s̪ ⁿt̻s̻ ᶯʈɽ ᶮtɕ ᵑk/ ⟨mp' nt' nth' nts' ntr' nch' nk'⟩
/ᵐpʰ ⁿtʰ ⁿt̪s̪ʰ ⁿt̻s̻ʰ ᶯʈɽʰ ᶮtɕʰ ᵑkʰ/ ⟨mp nt nth nts ntr nch nk⟩
/ᵐb ⁿd ⁿd̪z̪ ⁿd̻z̻ ᶯɖɽ ᶮdʑ ᵑɡ/ ⟨mb nd ndh ndz ndr nj ng⟩
əC clusters:
/əp ət ək əts̪ əts̻ ətɕ əx əb əd əɡ əz̪ əm ən əŋ/ ⟨'p 't 'k 'th 'ts 'ch 'h 'b 'd 'g 'z 'm 'n 'ŋ⟩
Vowels:
/ŋ̩ z̩ v̩ i ɛ ɚ a a˞ o/ ⟨ŋ̈ z̈ v̈ i e er a ar o⟩
Nasalisation: ⟨-ⁿ⟩ after the vowel
Tones:
Tones are written at the end of the word.
Monosyllables:
/á/ -[no tone letter]
/à/ -q
Polysyllables:
high-high -[no tone letter]
low-high -q
high-low -qq
Sample text:
/tɛ́ njó tɛ́ kɛ́ nɛ́ | mɛ́ɚ́ lá mát̪s̪ʰá=d̪z̪í d̪ɛ̀d̪z̪v̩̀d̪z̪v̩̀á dʑí || nɛ̀ nɛ́=wó tʰɛ́ táwá xíbá ká | xíbá ká xá nɛ́ nɛ́=wó dɛ̀ⁿdʑìⁿdʑí | s̪ɛ́tɛ́=wó xá nɛ́ s̪ɛ́tɛ́=wó jáŋá dʑìá | s̪ɛ́tɛ́=wó xá nɛ́ s̪ɛ́tɛ́=wó s̻òmó jàd̻z̻ó dʑìá | ⁿdʑíⁿdʑí || nɛ́ⁿdʑíⁿdʑí nɛ́ⁿdʑíⁿdʑí nɛ́ tʰɛ̀á tɛ́=wó tɛ́á tʰàkʰá mà=pʰá | tʰɛ́=kɛ́ nɛ́ ⁿd̻z̻á ɽ͡rź̩kʰwá ᶯɖɽv̩̀s̻z̩̀s̪v̩́ tɛ́ ŋàlá dʑìɡɛ̀á | ᶯɖɽv̩̀s̻z̩̀s̪v̩́ lɛ́ ətɕí ᵑɡámɛ́ ját̪s̪ʰá jàkʰwá tát̪s̪ʰá dɛ̀z̻ź̩ t̪s̪á dʑìɡɛ́/
T'e nyo t'e k'e ne, meer la mathadhi dedhv̈dhv̈aq ji. Neq newo te t'awa hiba k'a, hiba ka ha ne newo deⁿjiⁿjiq, ssetewo ha ne ssetewo yaŋa jiaq, ssetewo ha ne ssetewo ssomoq yadzoq jiaq, njinji. Neⁿjiⁿji neⁿjiⁿji ne teaq t'ewo t'ea takaq mapaq, teke ne nja rz̈kwa ndrv̈sz̈sv̈q te ŋalaq jigeaq. Ndrv̈sz̈sv̈q le 'chi ngame yatha yakwaq tatha dezz̈q tha jigeq.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:56 pm
by Nortaneous
/θiŋ˥/
/p b ⁿb t d ⁿd tɕ dʑ ⁿdʑ k g ⁿg ʔ/
/f θ s ɕ h/
/w ð j ɣ/
/m n ɲ ŋ/
/l ɻ/
/a e ɤ o i u ɿ ʅ v̩/
/a22 a33 a55 a24/
Tone only appears on word-final syllables. (Clitics are treated as separate words.) High and rising tone are common; low and mid tone are rare.
Only /a i u/ and /ɿ ʅ v̩/ can appear in nonfinal syllables. Voiced and prenasalized plosives can't appear syllable-finally.
/ʅ/ doesn't contrast with /ɿɻ/, and developed from it, although /ɿ/ is realized as [ʅ] after /ɻ/.
Alveolar + ʅ sequences (except for /l/) are realized as retroflexes followed by ɤ.
/v̩/ only appears after /p b ⁿb t d ⁿd c j ⁿj f m l 0/.
Labial + /v̩/ sequences are realized as Cfɤ or Cvɤ.
Coronal plosive + /v̩/ sequences are realized with bilabial trilling or labial coarticulation followed by ɤ.
/v̩/ with no onset is [vɤ].
/ɻɤ/ is [ɚ].
/ɿkumiθal55 jilkrɤɲ55 izʅ55 pɻam55=ða ɲiɕ24 ðɤ33 tsɿmɣan24=jicol24=ma24 || θju33 ʔiɲiɕ24 limɣan24=gjuⁿdamaⁿdi24=ma24 ɟaɻ24=ða || pv̩33 dwat22 ɻasʅ24 ɣlʅ55 e55 dɣen55=ða/
[zɤkumiθal˥ jilkrɤɲ˥ iʐɤ˥ pɻam˥ða ɲiɕ˨˦ ðɤ˧ tsɤmɣan˨˦jicol˨˦ma˨˦ || θju˧ ʔiɲiɕ˨˦ limɣan˨˦gjuⁿdɤmɤⁿdi˨˦ma˨˦ ɟaɻ˨˦ða || pfɤ˧ dwat˨ ɚʂɤ ɣɭ̩˥ e˥ dɣen˥ða]
Alternate analysis:
/zɤkomeθal55 jelkrɤɲ55 eʐɤ55 pɻam55=ðɤ ɲiɕ24 ðɤ33 tsɿmɣɤn24=jecol24=ma24 || θju33 ʔeɲiɕ24 limɣan24=gjoⁿdɤmɤⁿdi24=ma24 ɟaɻ24=ðɤ || pfɤ33 dwat22 ɚʂɤ24 ɣɭ̩55 e55 dɣen55=ðɤ/
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:13 pm
by Nortaneous
/p b ⁿb t d ⁿd tɕ dʑ ⁿdʑ k g ⁿg ʔ/ <p b mb t dt ndt ch j nj k q nq x>
/f θ s ɕ h/ <f th s sh h>
/w ð j ɣ/ <w d y g>
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n ñ ng>
/l ɻ/ <l r>
/ʈ ɖ ⁿɖ ʂ ʐ ɳ ɭ/ <tr dr ndr shr zhr nr lür>
/pf bv ⁿbv tʙ dʙ ⁿdʙ ɱv/ <pf bv mbv tv dv ndv mv>
/ts dz ⁿdz z/ <ts dz ndz z>
/ɚ/ <rü>
/a e ɤ o i u ɿ ʅ v̩/ <a e ü o i u zü zür vü>
/a22 a33 a55 a24/ <aah ah a/aCC/a' aa>
/zɤkomeθal55 jelkrɤɲ55 eʐɤ55 pɻam55=ðɤ ɲiɕ24 ðɤ33 tsɿmɣɤn24=jecol24=ma24 || θju33 ʔeɲiɕ24 limɣan24=gjoⁿdɤmɤⁿdi24=ma24 ɟaɻ24=ðɤ || pfɤ33 dwat22 ɚʂɤ24 ɣɭ̩55 e55 dɣen55=ðɤ/
Zükomethal yelkrüñ ezhru prammdü ñiish düh tsümgüünyechoolmaa. Thyuh xeñiish limgaanqyondümündiimaa jaardü. Pfüh dwaaht rüshrüü glür e dtgenndü.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:19 pm
by Karch
/θiŋ˥/ <Thing>
/p b ⁿb t d ⁿd tɕ dʑ ⁿdʑ k g ⁿg ʔ/ <p b mb t d nd c j nj k g nk '>
/f θ s ɕ h/ <f th s sh h>
/w ð j ɣ/ <w dh y gh>
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n ny ng>
/l ɻ/ <l r>
/a e ɤ o i u ɿ ʅ v̩/ <a ai e o i u re~e rer ve~o>
/a22 a33 a55 a24/ <à ā a â>
/ɻɤ/ is [ɚ]. <ra~er>
/ɿkumiθal55 jilkrɤɲ55 izʅ55 pɻam55=ða ɲiɕ24 ðɤ33 tsɿmɣan24=jicol24=ma24 || θju33 ʔiɲiɕ24 limɣan24=gjuⁿdamaⁿdi24=ma24 ɟaɻ24=ða || pv̩33 dwat22 ɻasʅ24 ɣlʅ55 e55 dɣen55=ða/
Zekumithal yilkerny izrer pram dha nyîsh dhē tsemghân yicôl mâ. Thyū 'inyîsh limghân gyundamandî mâ jâr dha. Pvē dwàt rasrêr ghlrer ai dghain dha.
----
Ersu /ɚ́sv̩́ xò/ <Ersu xò>
/p t t̪s̪ t̻s̻ ʈɽ tɕ k/ <p t ts tṣ tr c k>
/pʰ tʰ t̪s̪ʰ t̻s̻ʰ ʈɽʰ tɕʰ kʰ/ <ph th ths thṣ thr ch kh>
/b d d̪z̪ d̻z̻ ɖɽ dʑ ɡ/ <b d dz dẓ dr j g>
/m n ŋ/ <m n ng>
/ɽ͡r/ <r>
/f s̪ s̻ ɬ ɕ x/ <f s ṣ lh sh x>
/v z̪ z̻ ʑ/ <v z ẓ zh>
/w l j/ <w l y>
All stops and affricates can be prenasalized. <nC>, but <mb> <ngg>. There's also a series of clusters with a "schwa-like element": /əp ət ək əts̪ əts̻ ətɕ əx əb əd əɡ əz̪ əm ən əŋ/ <'C>. Preaspirated voiceless stops occur in some Tibetan loanwords. <hC>
/z̩ v̩ i ɛ ɚ a a˞ o/ <ị u i e er a ar o>
/ŋ̩/ <ng>
There's also vowel nasalization, but it only occurs in Mandarin loanwords and in two native words.
/á à/ <a à> - in monosyllabic words.
In polysyllabic words, there are three tone patterns (one's marginal though, occurring in Mandarin loanwords and a handful of native words): low-high (grave accent on the first syllable), high-high (unmarked) (and high-low (grave accent on the last vowel), which is the marginal one).
/tɛ́ njó tɛ́ kɛ́ nɛ́ | mɛ́ɚ́ lá mát̪s̪ʰá=d̪z̪í d̪ɛ̀d̪z̪v̩̀d̪z̪v̩̀á dʑí || nɛ̀ nɛ́=wó tʰɛ́ táwá xíbá ká | xíbá ká xá nɛ́ nɛ́=wó dɛ̀ⁿdʑìⁿdʑí | s̪ɛ́tɛ́=wó xá nɛ́ s̪ɛ́tɛ́=wó jáŋá dʑìá | s̪ɛ́tɛ́=wó xá nɛ́ s̪ɛ́tɛ́=wó s̻òmó jàd̻z̻ó dʑìá | ⁿdʑíⁿdʑí || nɛ́ⁿdʑíⁿdʑí nɛ́ⁿdʑíⁿdʑí nɛ́ tʰɛ̀á tɛ́=wó tɛ́á tʰàkʰá mà=pʰá | tʰɛ́=kɛ́ nɛ́ ⁿd̻z̻á ɽ͡rź̩kʰwá ᶯɖɽv̩̀s̻z̩̀s̪v̩́ tɛ́ ŋàlá dʑìɡɛ̀á | ᶯɖɽv̩̀s̻z̩̀s̪v̩́ lɛ́ ətɕí ᵑɡámɛ́ ját̪s̪ʰá jàkʰwá tát̪s̪ʰá dɛ̀z̻ź̩ t̪s̪á dʑìɡɛ́/
Te nyo te ke ne, me-er la mathsadzi dèdzudzua ji. Nè newo the tawa xiba ka, xiba ka xa ne newo dènjinji, setewo xa ne setewo yanga jìa, setewo ha ne setewo ṣòmo yàdẓo jìa, njinji. Nenjinji nenjinji ne thèa tewo tea thàkha màpha, theke ne ndẓa rịkhwa ndrùṣịsu te ngàla jìgea, ndrùṣịsu le 'ci ngame yathsa yàkhwa tathsa dèẓị tsa jìge.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:06 am
by HazelFiver
/θiŋ˥/ <Ťiñ>
/p b ⁿb t d ⁿd tɕ dʑ ⁿdʑ k g ⁿg ʔ/ <p b mb t d nd c z nz k g ng '>
/f θ s ɕ h/ <f ť s š h>
/w ð j ɣ/ <w ď j gh>
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n nj ñ>
/l ɻ/ <l r>
/a e ɤ o i u ɿ ʅ v̩/ <a e ë o i u zë~ë ër vë>
/a22 a33 a55 a24/ <aq ax a ay>
/ɿkumiθal55 jilkrɤɲ55 izʅ55 pɻam55=ða ɲiɕ24 ðɤ33 tsɿmɣan24=jicol24=ma24 || θju33 ʔiɲiɕ24 limɣan24=gjuⁿdamaⁿdi24=ma24 ɟaɻ24=ða || pv̩33 dwat22 ɻasʅ24 ɣlʅ55 e55 dɣen55=ða/
Zëkumiťal jilkrënj izër pram ďa njiyš ďë tsëmghayn jicoyl may. Ťjux 'injiyš limghayn gjundamandiy may zayr ďa. Pvëx dwaqt rasëyr ghlër e dghen ďa.
(I assume /c ɟ/ are the same as /tɕ dʑ/.)
----
/ʂánī kʰìtì/ I've finally got something kind of reasonable for this one, but I'd like to see how others would handle it.
/m n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ n͡m ɲ͡m ŋ͡m ɴ͡m/
/p pʰ t tʼ tʰ ʈ ʈʼ ʈʰ c cʼ cʰ k kʼ kʰ q qʼ qʰ ʡ ʡʼ ʔ t͡p t͡pʰ c͡p c͡pʰ k͡p k͡pʰ q͡p q͡pʰ q͡ʡ q͡ʡʼ/
/f fʼ s sʼ ʂ ʂʼ ç~ɕ çʼ~ɕʼ x xʼ χ χʼ ħ ħʼ h/
/ɬ ɬʼ ꞎ ꞎʼ ʎ̥˔ ʎ̥˔ʼ ʟ̝̊ ʟ̝̊ʼ/
/j w ʁ ʕ/
/ɾ~l ɽ~ɭ ʎ ʟ ʟ̠/
/ʢ/
/ǃ ‼ ǂ ʞ/
/i y ɯ u a/
/a˧ a˥ a˩ a˩˥ a˧˩/
/a a̤/
/ʁ/ is not a rhotic (no r/l distinction). All syllables are CV, but there are geminated consonants.
(just some automatically generated nonsense as there isn't really a language yet)
/t͡pʰy̤˥ ʟai˥ pi˩qʼai˩˥ wai˩˥ca˧ tʰi̤˩ ħːɯ̤˥ χy̤˩˥ ŋ͡maṳ˩˥ ʡu˩ tau˧˩tʼa̤˥ ɕːau˩˥ʟ̝̊ʼau˥ ǃa̤˩˥ ɬːʼai˧ || tːʼu˩˥ɴːa˧ k͡pau˥ ʡʼa˥ sʼy˩˥ ʁaṳ˩˥ħʼi̤˧ pʰa ʡʼaṳ˧˩ q͡ʡai̤˥ ɳːai̤˥ fʼy˧ɲy˩˥ ʢai̤˥sʼi˧ ʈːʰau˩ʞaṳ˧ c͡pu˧˩ ɕʼy˩˥cːai̤˧ fːṳ˩ ŋːy˩ʂi̤˩˥ qːʼa˥ʂai̤˩˥ ʎ̥˔ːɯ̤˩χɯ˩˥ ɭi̤˧˩ ʎau˩nu˧/
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:22 am
by bradrn
/ʂánī kʰìtì/ ⟨Ṣáni kìdì⟩
Wow… I have to say, this is possibly the most impressive phonology I’ve ever seen! I am wondering what your romanization for this was: could you post it here?
Anyway, for my own romanization, I decided to make it a bit simpler by trying to be as systematic as possible. So here’s the conventions I came up with and tried to follow as much as possible:
- Retroflexes indicated with dot below
- Palatals indicated with tilde
- Velars indicated with line above
- (Epi)glottals indicated with stroke through
- Voiced laterals are variations on ⟨l⟩, voiceless laterals are variations on ⟨ł⟩
- Ejectives are indicated with doubled letters
Of course, there are exceptions, but for the most part I’ve kept to those ‘rules’.
Anyway, here’s the romanization itself:
Consonants:
/m n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ n͡m ɲ͡m ŋ͡m ɴ͡m/ ⟨m n ṇ ñ n̄ ŋ nm ñm n̄m ŋm⟩
/p pʰ t tʼ tʰ ʈ ʈʼ ʈʰ c cʼ cʰ k kʼ kʰ q qʼ qʰ ʡ ʡʼ ʔ t͡p t͡pʰ c͡p c͡pʰ k͡p k͡pʰ q͡p q͡pʰ q͡ʡ q͡ʡʼ/ ⟨b p d tt t ḍ ṭṭ ṭ j cc c g kk k ƣ qq q ʡ ʡʡ ʔ db tp jb cp gb kp ƣb qp qʡ qʡʡ⟩
/f fʼ s sʼ ʂ ʂʼ ç~ɕ çʼ~ɕʼ x xʼ χ χʼ ħ ħʼ h/ ⟨f ff s ss ṣ ṣ̣ṣ ẓ ç çç x xx x̌ x̌x̌ ħ ħħ h⟩
/ɬ ɬʼ ꞎ ꞎʼ ʎ̥˔ ʎ̥˔ʼ ʟ̝̊ ʟ̝̊ʼ/ ⟨ł łł ł̣ ł̣ł̣ ł̃ ł̃ł̃ ł̄ ł̄ł̄⟩
/j w ʁ ʕ/ ⟨j w r ǥ⟩
/ɾ~l ɽ~ɭ ʎ ʟ ʟ̠/ ⟨l ḷ l̃ l̄ ɍ⟩
/ʢ/ ⟨ǥǥ⟩
/ǃ ‼ ǂ ʞ/ ⟨ǃ ‼ ǂ ʞ⟩
Geminates are indicated with ꞉ after the consonant.
(Side note: thank you for keeping this CV! That means I don’t have to figure out how to disambiguate all the various digraphs…)
Vowels:
/i y ɯ u a/ ⟨i y ɯ u a⟩
/a˧ a˥ a˩ a˩˥ a˧˩/ ⟨a á à ǎ â⟩
/a a̤/ ⟨a ah⟩
Sample text:
/t͡pʰy̤˥ ʟai˥ pi˩qʼai˩˥ wai˩˥ca˧ tʰi̤˩ ħːɯ̤˥ χy̤˩˥ ŋ͡maṳ˩˥ ʡu˩ tau˧˩tʼa̤˥ ɕːau˩˥ʟ̝̊ʼau˥ ǃa̤˩˥ ɬːʼai˧ || tːʼu˩˥ɴːa˧ k͡pau˥ ʡʼa˥ sʼy˩˥ ʁaṳ˩˥ħʼi̤˧ pʰa ʡʼaṳ˧˩ q͡ʡai̤˥ ɳːai̤˥ fʼy˧ɲy˩˥ ʢai̤˥sʼi˧ ʈːʰau˩ʞaṳ˧ c͡pu˧˩ ɕʼy˩˥cːai̤˧ fːṳ˩ ŋːy˩ʂi̤˩˥ qːʼa˥ʂai̤˩˥ ʎ̥˔ːɯ̤˩χɯ˩˥ ɭi̤˧˩ ʎau˩nu˧/
Tpýh l̄ái pìqqǎi wǎija tìh ħ꞉ɯ́h xy̌h n̄mǎuh ʡù tâuttáh ç꞉ǎuł̄ł̄áu ǃǎh łł꞉ai. Tt꞉ǔŋ:a gbáu ʡʡá ssy̌rǎuhħħih pa ʡʡâuh qʡʼáih ñ꞉áih ffyñy̌ ǥǥáihssi ṭ:àuʞauh jbû ̦ççy̌c:aih f:ùh ŋ:ỳšǐh qq꞉ášǎih ł̃꞉ɯ̀hxɯ̌ ḷîh l̃àunu.
(I probably made a mistake somewhere there; if you find one feel free to point it out!)
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:35 pm
by HazelFiver
bradrn wrote: ↑Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:22 am
Wow… I have to say, this is possibly the most impressive phonology I’ve ever seen! I am wondering what your romanization for this was: could you post it here?
Well, it did grow out of an attempt to beat
this test. It would have been even harder to work with if I hadn't ditched the voiceless implosives and nasal taps.
Here's mine, which is actually a lot like yours:
/ʂánī kʰìtì/ <Ṣáni kìdì>
/m n ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ n͡m ɲ͡m ŋ͡m ɴ͡m/ <m n ṇ ny ng ṅ nm nym ngm ṅm>
/p pʰ t tʼ tʰ ʈ ʈʼ ʈʰ c cʼ cʰ k kʼ kʰ q qʼ qʰ ʡ ʡʼ ʔ t͡p t͡pʰ c͡p c͡pʰ k͡p k͡pʰ q͡p q͡pʰ q͡ʡ q͡ʡʼ/ <b p d t' t ḍ ṭ' ṭ dy ty' ty g k' k ġ q' q c c' ' db tp dyb typ gb kp ġb qp cq cq'>
/f fʼ s sʼ ʂ ʂʼ ç~ɕ çʼ~ɕʼ x xʼ χ χʼ ħ ħʼ h/ <f f' s s' ṣ ṣ' sy sy' x x' ẋ ẋ' ħ ħ' h>
/ɬ ɬʼ ꞎ ꞎʼ ʎ̥˔ ʎ̥˔ʼ ʟ̝̊ ʟ̝̊ʼ/ <ł ł' ł̣ ł̣' ły ły' kl kl'>
/j w ʁ ʕ/ <y w r v>
/ɾ~l ɽ~ɭ ʎ ʟ ʟ̠/ <l ḷ ly gl ġl>
/ʢ/ <ř>
/ǃ ‼ ǂ ʞ/ <! r! !y k!>
/i y ɯ u a/ <i iu ui u a>
/a˧ a˥ a˩ a˩˥ a˧˩/ <a á à ǎ â>
/a a̤/ <a ar>
Geminated consonants are doubled.
/t͡pʰy̤˥ ʟai˥ pi˩qʼai˩˥ wai˩˥ca˧ tʰi̤˩ ħːɯ̤˥ χy̤˩˥ ŋ͡maṳ˩˥ ʡu˩ tau˧˩tʼa̤˥ ɕːau˩˥ʟ̝̊ʼau˥ ǃa̤˩˥ ɬːʼai˧ || tːʼu˩˥ɴːa˧ k͡pau˥ ʡʼa˥ sʼy˩˥ ʁaṳ˩˥ħʼi̤˧ pʰa ʡʼaṳ˧˩ q͡ʡai̤˥ ɳːai̤˥ fʼy˧ɲy˩˥ ʢai̤˥sʼi˧ ʈːʰau˩ʞaṳ˧ c͡pu˧˩ ɕʼy˩˥cːai̤˧ fːṳ˩ ŋːy˩ʂi̤˩˥ qːʼa˥ʂai̤˩˥ ʎ̥˔ːɯ̤˩χɯ˩˥ ɭi̤˧˩ ʎau˩nu˧/
Tpíur glái bìq'ǎi wǎidya tìr ħħúir ẋǐur ngmǎur cù dâut'ár ssyǎukkl'áu !ǎr ł̣ł̣'ai. Tt'ǔṅṅa gbáu c'á ṣ'ǐu rǎurħ'ir pa c'âur cqáir ṇṇáir f'iunyǐu řáirs'i ṭṭàuk!aur dybû sy'ǐuddyair ffùr nngìuṣǐr qq'áṣǎir kklùirẋǔi ḷîr lyàunu.
Tpýh l̄ái bìqqǎi wǎija tìh ħ꞉ɯ́h x̌y̌h n̄mǎuh ʡù dâuttáh ç꞉ǎuł̄ł̄áu ǃǎh łł꞉ai. Tt꞉ǔŋ:a gbáu ʡʡá ssy̌ rǎuhħħih pa ʡʡâuh qʡʼáih ñ꞉áih ffyñy̌ ǥǥáihssi ṭ:àuʞauh jbû ̦ççy̌j:aih f:ùh ŋ:ỳšǐh qq꞉ášǎih ł̃꞉ɯ̀hx̌ɯ̌ ḷîh l̃àunu.
(I probably made a mistake somewhere there; if you find one feel free to point it out!)
The forum font, Trebuchet MS, makes the characters
x and
χ appear identical. It has other flaws as well, so it really ought to be replaced with something else like Arial (this seems to have been done on Unilang, which uses the same software). I've added tt tags to the original post so it's more obvious what the transcription says.
Re: Romanization Challenge Thread v2.0
Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:00 pm
by bradrn
Yes, I have seen that test before. In my opinion, you’ve succeeded in beating it.
It would have been even harder to work with if I hadn't ditched the voiceless implosives and nasal taps.
I can definitely agree with this!
Here's mine, which is actually a lot like yours:
Actually, I would say it seems quite different. I make heavy use of doubled letters and diacritics, whereas you rely mostly on digraphs.
Tpýh l̄ái bìqqǎi wǎija tìh ħ꞉ɯ́h x̌y̌h n̄mǎuh ʡù dâuttáh ç꞉ǎuł̄ł̄áu ǃǎh łł꞉ai. Tt꞉ǔŋ:a gbáu ʡʡá ssy̌ rǎuhħħih pa ʡʡâuh qʡʼáih ñ꞉áih ffyñy̌ ǥǥáihssi ṭ:àuʞauh jbû ̦ççy̌j:aih f:ùh ŋ:ỳšǐh qq꞉ášǎih ł̃꞉ɯ̀hx̌ɯ̌ ḷîh l̃àunu.
(I probably made a mistake somewhere there; if you find one feel free to point it out!)
The forum font, Trebuchet MS, makes the characters
x and
χ appear identical. It has other flaws as well, so it really ought to be replaced with something else like Arial (this seems to have been done on Unilang, which uses the same software).
Yes, I am aware of this shortcoming of Trebuchet MS; it is very annoying! The other really annoying thing about it is the way phpBB falls back to Verdana for characters like ⟨ǎ⟩, and Verdana doesn’t display those properly (the diacritic isn’t on top of the letter).
I've added tt tags to the original post so it's more obvious what the transcription says.
Thank you!