Zompist Bboard Again

Pabappa wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:30 pm Enormity is primarily defined as Deviation from moral normality

It is primarily defined that way only if your dictionary is:
a) an antique
or
b) a specialised dictionary for students of pre-20th century literature
or
c) shit.

EDIT: wiktionary gives the modern meaning as arising in the 18th century. Its only clear post-1875 citation for the older meaning is a 1972 book about the 17th century, discussing 17th century attitudes, and may well be ironically borrowing the lexis of the period. [the other quotation, from 2015, is ambiguous, as 'enormity of his crimes' may, and IMO probably does, refer to the magnitude of the crime just as much as its unnaturalness].

[fun fact: apparently I pronounce it 'wrong'. I pronounce the initial vowel as schwa, but wiktionary says it should be unstressed /I/...]

lol This reminds me of the definition for "interesting" on Wiktionary:

• Adjective
  
  interesting (comparative more interesting, superlative most interesting)
  
  1. (often ironic) Arousing or holding the attention or interest of someone.
  2. (euphemistic) strange or unusual, in a negative sense.
  ----- The stew had an interesting flavor.
  
  Usage notes
  
  Interesting is often used in conversation as a polite mildly positive descriptor or, with an ironic deadpan, to mean boring.

Apparently, "interesting" is not used in a non-ironic sense? Heh.

Salmoneus wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:17 pm[fun fact: apparently I pronounce it 'wrong'. I pronounce the initial vowel as schwa, but wiktionary says it should be unstressed /I/...]

I don't think it ever really matters much whether an English dictionary, any English dictionary, says a word has an unstressed /ə/ or /ɪ/ in an open syllable.

Lots of native speakers here pronounce "electric" with an initial /ə/, but the Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary, the Oxford British & World English Dictionary, the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary & Thesaurus, Dictionary.com and TheFreeDictionary by Farlex report initial /ɪ/ only. However, English Wiktionary and John Wells's Longman Pronunciation Dictionary (2nd ed.) report both /ə/ or /ɪ/ for the first vowel. Hurrah for Wiktionary in this case, I guess.

Ser wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:07 pm
Apparently, "interesting" is not used in a non-ironic sense? Heh.

It is, but I think 'often ironic' is a fair description. If you use it non-ironically, you have to be very careful, because a slight error in tone will lead people to assume you're being ironic. And if you're not being ironic, and they know you're not, there's still a chance they'll ironically pretend to think you're being ironic.
Basically, it's hard to call something 'interesting' and not either have someone make fun of you, or someone think you're making fun of them...

Salmoneus wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:17 pm[fun fact: apparently I pronounce it 'wrong'. I pronounce the initial vowel as schwa, but wiktionary says it should be unstressed /I/...]

I don't think it ever really matters much whether an English dictionary, any English dictionary, says a word has an unstressed /ə/ or /ɪ/ in an open syllable.

Well, I think usually they're accurate. But I think there's a particular problem with initial e-, which I think over the last generation or two has become schwa for most speakers of SSBE in most words, which dictionaries hasn't caught up with.

[however, I think I still have /I/ in 'exotic'? And definitely in 'elucidate'. So it's not entirely clearcut]

For me I have two audibly distinct allophones, [ɘ] and [ə], for a single merged weak vowel phoneme, aka the weak vowel merger. For a long time I did not realize I had this merger, since I could hear the two allophones distinctly, but I found that in every day speech in any given environment either only one of the two would normally appear, or the two would be interchangeable, such that there were no environments in which they were actually contrastive.

Salmoneus wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:32 pmIt is, but I think 'often ironic' is a fair description. If you use it non-ironically, you have to be very careful, because a slight error in tone will lead people to assume you're being ironic. And if you're not being ironic, and they know you're not, there's still a chance they'll ironically pretend to think you're being ironic.

Basically, it's hard to call something 'interesting' and not either have someone make fun of you, or someone think you're making fun of them...

Hmm, damn, and here I've been using it unironically most of the time for the past 10 years or so since I learned that word.

I guess I should change that habit of mine and start saying... uhh... "that's curious", "that's beautiful", "that's delightful", or the stronger "that's amazing", "that's fascinating".

No wait- all of those are often used ironically too. Urgh, English speakers, why are you so sarcastic all the time?

Ser wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:55 pm

Salmoneus wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:32 pmIt is, but I think 'often ironic' is a fair description. If you use it non-ironically, you have to be very careful, because a slight error in tone will lead people to assume you're being ironic. And if you're not being ironic, and they know you're not, there's still a chance they'll ironically pretend to think you're being ironic.

Basically, it's hard to call something 'interesting' and not either have someone make fun of you, or someone think you're making fun of them...

Hmm, damn, and here I've been using it unironically most of the time for the past 10 years or so since I learned that word.

Which is fine. Wiktionary is wrong; this is a nice case study in why amateur lexicography can be bad.

(Of course, like any value judgment, the word can be ironic. But they're pulling the frequency out of their ass.)

From Twitter:

MY BABY THROWS UP THE ROCK ON SIGN IN HER FUCKING SLEEP IM SCREAMING

Bonus day! This one is from The Times.

"Hospitals named after sandwiches kill five."

zompist wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:59 pm Bonus day! This one is from The Times.

"Hospitals named after sandwiches kill five."

Somehow I actually initially parsed that as [[Hospitals named [after sandwiches]] kill five].

Yes that's... the joke. That's how this thread works.

(that was a particularly good one)

zompist wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:14 pm From Twitter:

MY BABY THROWS UP THE ROCK ON SIGN IN HER FUCKING SLEEP IM SCREAMING

I'm still not entirely sure what that means.

This might help: https://www.google.com/search?q=rock+on&tbm=isch.

akam chinjir wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:49 am This might help: https://www.google.com/search?q=rock+on&tbm=isch.

Ah, thank you!

I knew that, but I'm still not sure what it means. Like she tosses it upwards? Because vomiting it wouldn't seem to make sense.

It would have been very impressive if a baby had been able to throw Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson around in a wrestling match while sleeping.

Oh, never mind, I didn't even think about that meaning of sign. I was thinking of a poster the whole time.

A site is showing me a headline from Fox News: "Swedish princess shares snap after children lose royal titles".

I didn't know you could invest in royalty.

From the BBC:

Andover van crash gas leak forces residents out of homes


For one moment, I thought it was about someone called "Andover van Crash". Perhaps a punk rocker or something?

A headline in the Denver Post:

Sentences are ruled illegal

As someone on Twitter who posted a photo of the paper commented, "Grim news for those of us who write for a living".