Zompist Bboard Again

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:55 am In German, it is usually called Asphalt, but the technical term - I once worked in a road planning office - is Schwarzdecke, which literally means 'blacktop'. Maybe it is the same in English?

asphalt is also called blacktop in English.

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:48 pm

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:55 am In German, it is usually called Asphalt, but the technical term - I once worked in a road planning office - is Schwarzdecke, which literally means 'blacktop'. Maybe it is the same in English?

asphalt is also called blacktop in English.

I know. What I asked about is whether in English, asphalt is the popular and blacktop the technical term, as in German.

After looking it up, it seems the formal word may be "asphalt concrete", but I've never heard it actually used; "asphalt" and "blacktop" (sometimes also "tarmac", but I mostly associate this with aviation) are used interchangeably, with "asphalt" being the more common in all contexts in my experience.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:40 pm After looking it up, it seems the formal word may be "asphalt concrete", but I've never heard it actually used; "asphalt" and "blacktop" (sometimes also "tarmac", but I mostly associate this with aviation) are used interchangeably, with "asphalt" being the more common in all contexts in my experience.

I also strongly associate "tarmac" with aviation myself.

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:40 pm After looking it up, it seems the formal word may be "asphalt concrete", but I've never heard it actually used; "asphalt" and "blacktop" (sometimes also "tarmac", but I mostly associate this with aviation) are used interchangeably, with "asphalt" being the more common in all contexts in my experience.

To me, 'tarmac' is the word for the blackish mix used for road surfaces and also playgrounds and pavements. For me the key features of a 'pavement' are that its surface is hard to firm, and that it runs beside a road. There are geological features called pavements, but that is a completely different sense of the word to me.

Richard W wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:23 pm

Rounin Ryuuji wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:40 pm After looking it up, it seems the formal word may be "asphalt concrete", but I've never heard it actually used; "asphalt" and "blacktop" (sometimes also "tarmac", but I mostly associate this with aviation) are used interchangeably, with "asphalt" being the more common in all contexts in my experience.

To me, 'tarmac' is the word for the blackish mix used for road surfaces and also playgrounds and pavements. For me the key features of a 'pavement' are that its surface is hard to firm, and that it runs beside a road. There are geological features called pavements, but that is a completely different sense of the word to me.

I also use the word "pavement" slightly differently — to me, that's any surface paved with some form of rock or rock-like material (i.e. concrete, but only sometimes asphalt), generally outdoors; I think the thing running alongside the road I would normally call a "footpath", or (regionally more normatively) a "sidewalk" (either way, it's likely to be a subclass of pavement, which covers a much broader range of things). Neither of these things is usually made of asphalt, in my experience (but rather of concrete, usually).

I wouldn't call a paved garden path a pavement.

I wouldn't normally say "a pavement" (it's usually a mass noun, in my mind) generally, now that I think on it; a piece of pavement would usually be a "paving stone", "cobblestone", "concrete slab", or some other term noting what it's made of. "The pavement" as in "pounding the pavement" (an expression I wouldn't generally use) would imply some sort of solid concrete, or be ambiguously roads or footpaths.

Is the word Pam a generic term for cooking spray to you? I have heard people refer to cooking spray as Pam even when it is cooking spray of a different brand.

I've encountered the use, but I don't use it personally.

Space60 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:35 pm Is the word Pam a generic term for cooking spray to you? I have heard people refer to cooking spray as Pam even when it is cooking spray of a different brand.

I don't think I even heard the term "cooking spray" until I was an adult. "Pam" was simply ubiquitous.

The word tarmac comes from tarmacadam, macadam being the most common road surface before the advent of the motorcar. Macadam got its name from its inventor, John Loudon McAdam. Tar-bound macadam was the solution to the gradual damage motor vehicles caused to the road. Edgar Purnell Hooley patented the name tarmac in 1902, and the first tarmac road was here in Nottingham (I used to live just round the corner from it). Although we now use asphalt concrete to surface roads in the UK, we still call it tarmac.

The primary association being with aviation is new to me, although Wikipedia accounts for that usage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarmac

The pavement is the raised pedestrian walkway beside a road, whether it's paved or tarmacked. A paved area in a garden is a patio.

A footpath is a pedestrian walkway, usually not adjacent to a road, and usually made of dirt.

Space60 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:35 pm Is the word Pam a generic term for cooking spray to you? I have heard people refer to cooking spray as Pam even when it is cooking spray of a different brand.

What is this "cooking spray" you speak of?

Sol717 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:21 am

Space60 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:35 pm Is the word Pam a generic term for cooking spray to you? I have heard people refer to cooking spray as Pam even when it is cooking spray of a different brand.

What is this "cooking spray" you speak of?

I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but, just in case that you're serious, this is the first time that I hear of the concept, too.

Wikipedia says this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_spray

Space60 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:35 pm Is the word Pam a generic term for cooking spray to you? I have heard people refer to cooking spray as Pam even when it is cooking spray of a different brand.

It is not, although I would understand it as a generic term if so used.

So I'm trying to work out when I call something a "present" and when I call it a "gift". Seems like I have:

birthday present
Christmas present
going-away present

but

wedding gift ("Wedding Present" is only a reference to a rock band)
give as a gift

I don't have a definite preference for "housewarming present/gift". In the sense of "donation to an institution" only "gift" is possible.

My working hypothesis is that I originally only had "present" IMD and added "gift" as I got older. (I've been receiving birthday and Christmas presents all my life but I was in my 20s before I bought anyone a housewarming or wedding gift). Could this be a regional difference or is more one of register? What sorts of distributions to other folks have?

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:18 pm So I'm trying to work out when I call something a "present" and when I call it a "gift". Seems like I have:

birthday present
Christmas present
going-away present

but

wedding gift ("Wedding Present" is only a reference to a rock band)
give as a gift

I don't have a definite preference for "housewarming present/gift". In the sense of "donation to an institution" only "gift" is possible.

My working hypothesis is that I originally only had "present" IMD and added "gift" as I got older. (I've been receiving birthday and Christmas presents all my life but I was in my 20s before I bought anyone a housewarming or wedding gift). Could this be a regional difference or is more one of register? What sorts of distributions to other folks have?

I have the same exact distribution, so I don't think this is an age issue on your part.

Linguoboy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 09, 2022 3:18 pm So I'm trying to work out when I call something a "present" and when I call it a "gift". Seems like I have:

birthday present
Christmas present
going-away present

I would normally prefer present in all these contexts, but only by a slight margin with the first two — birthday gift and Christmas gift are also fine, and I might use them, just not as often as the forms with present; *going-away gift, however, sounds somehow wrong.

but

wedding gift ("Wedding Present" is only a reference to a rock band)

I would actually say wedding present, and think wedding gift sounds ever so slightly odd.

give as a gift

This is also how I would say it; I also don't use gift as a verb (and find it sounds odd when people do), except in the adjectival use of gifted ("endowed with some sort of unusual talent or ability").

I don't have a definite preference for "housewarming present/gift". In the sense of "donation to an institution" only "gift" is possible.

I think housewarming gift also sounds ever so slightly odd.

My working hypothesis is that I originally only had "present" IMD and added "gift" as I got older. (I've been receiving birthday and Christmas presents all my life but I was in my 20s before I bought anyone a housewarming or wedding gift). Could this be a regional difference or is more one of register? What sorts of distributions to other folks have?

I notice we have almost the same distribution, except with "wedding" and "housewarming". I tend to only use gift where the expression requires it, as give as a gift, in one's gift (a learned form), also Mystery Gift (the proper name of a specific Game mechanic), gift-giving, or figurative uses, in which gift means "talent, aptitude". I'm not sure if it's because of a subconscious preference for "nicer-sounding" words (I also tend to prefer close to shut), or possibly because present is easier (in my mind) to articulate than gift, but I certainly prefer present as the word meaning "something given freely to someone else".

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:10 pm

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:48 pm

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:55 am In German, it is usually called Asphalt, but the technical term - I once worked in a road planning office - is Schwarzdecke, which literally means 'blacktop'. Maybe it is the same in English?

asphalt is also called blacktop in English.

I know. What I asked about is whether in English, asphalt is the popular and blacktop the technical term, as in German.

In the Mid-Atlantic English, asphalt is a general term for the material, so it could appear in a lot of contexts. Blacktop, however, is very specific to the asphalt covered play spaces found near schools or at playgrounds, ball courts, etc. I can't really think of another context for the term's use.

2+3 Clusivity wrote: ↑Thu Mar 10, 2022 2:48 pm

WeepingElf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:10 pm

Moose-tache wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:48 pm
asphalt is also called blacktop in English.

I know. What I asked about is whether in English, asphalt is the popular and blacktop the technical term, as in German.

In the Mid-Atlantic English, asphalt is a general term for the material, so it could appear in a lot of contexts. Blacktop, however, is very specific to the asphalt covered play spaces found near schools or at playgrounds, ball courts, etc. I can't really think of another context for the term's use.

I'm from Wisconsin, and we have the same exact usage here. I wouldn't call asphalt pavement in a street blacktop but I would call asphalt covering in a playground or basketball court that.