United States Politics Thread 46

[WeepingElf]

I'm with zompist -- anyone who thinks that anything good can come out of a fascist America under Trump II is horribly naive at the very best.

I am with him too. Nothing good can come out of a second Trump term!

[bradrn]

With all the depressing news being discussed recently, might I recommend this wonderful (though US-centric) antidote to the doom and gloom: https://acoup.blog/2024/06/28/fireside- ... e-28-2024/

[malloc]

With all the depressing news being discussed recently, might I recommend this wonderful (though US-centric) antidote to the doom and gloom: https://acoup.blog/2024/06/28/fireside- ... e-28-2024/

Yeah but none of that will matter when the US falls to fascism. Plenty of horrible dictatorships could cherrypick improving metrics but that would hardly balance out their crimes or give inhabitants cause for relief. Sorry if that sounds rude or dismissive but we are facing the end of liberal democracy in the US and probably the world in general.

[Torco]

With all the depressing news being discussed recently, might I recommend this wonderful (though US-centric) antidote to the doom and gloom: https://acoup.blog/2024/06/28/fireside- ... e-28-2024/

I'm ever suprised at the thing about crime. it's likely social media -or maybe a coordinated plot by the right wing to militarize society?- but to see that year after crime goes down as fear of crime goes up is weird. same's happening in my own country, and likely elsewhere.

[Ares Land]

I'm ever suprised at the thing about crime. it's likely social media -or maybe a coordinated plot by the right wing to militarize society?- but to see that year after crime goes down as fear of crime goes up is weird. same's happening in my own country, and likely elsewhere.

Yep, it's happening in many countries. In France at least it's older than social media.

My own idea is that this has to do with the media generally being owned by plutocrats, and so have an incentive to talk about crime instead of, I don't know, stagnating incomes or other inconvenient subjects.

[MacAnDàil]

The NFP platform condemns Hamas as terrorists, and they had to okay that.

Wait, the NFP has a platform of its own? It isn’t just the platforms of the individual parties? That changes the situation.

Yes, I had linked to it a day earlier:

https://www.nouveaufrontpopulaire.fr/

[MacAnDàil]

By the way, Trump wants to close the education department on top of the rest.

[WeepingElf]

I don't expect a full-blown dictatorship in Trump's USA like Putin's Russia, let alone Nazi Germany. Rather, a situation where "non-governmental" entities such as militias exert the kind of terror that is the secret police's job in classic dictatorships, and the mass media are controlled by megacorps that toe the Republican party line. The Democrats won't be banned, but elections won't be fair, and it will be very hard for the Democrats to win elections. Which is bad enough - it doesn't really matter whether the threat you face as opposition comes from the secret police or from a militia. Whether the thugs that beat you up wear uniforms or not.

[bradrn]

The NFP platform condemns Hamas as terrorists, and they had to okay that.

Wait, the NFP has a platform of its own? It isn’t just the platforms of the individual parties? That changes the situation.

Yes, I had linked to it a day earlier:

https://www.nouveaufrontpopulaire.fr/

(Assuming you put the end-quote tag in the wrong place.)

Yes, I recall; I’d just misunderstood its significance.

[Ares Land]

(Assuming you put the end-quote tag in the wrong place.)

Yes, I recall; I’d just misunderstood its significance.

It's pretty amusing, though, that the platform is of absolutely no importance now. Wrapping the next day's fish indeed!

With all the depressing news being discussed recently, might I recommend this wonderful (though US-centric) antidote to the doom and gloom: https://acoup.blog/2024/06/28/fireside- ... e-28-2024/

Yeah but none of that will matter when the US falls to fascism. Plenty of horrible dictatorships could cherrypick improving metrics but that would hardly balance out their crimes or give inhabitants cause for relief. Sorry if that sounds rude or dismissive but we are facing the end of liberal democracy in the US and probably the world in general.

I get some of your annoyance, but one thing this piece does is remind us that problems can actually be fixed, and quite often are fixed. It's a good thing to remember now.

This applies to the rise of fascism: it's good to remember that (though there has been and will be needless suffering we shouldn't forget) the crisis of democracy is not eternal and will be fixed at one point too.

---

On Joe Biden: Okay, I asked this question before, but I think it's worth asking again: why aren't they replacing Biden right now? Are they crazy? Do they actually want to lose?

Both Democrats and Republicans are equally crazy. Is there no one in the party leadership that has spent some time around 80-years-old folks? There's no way a 80 year old man is in any fit state to run a country, no matter how sharp their mind is.

[bradrn]

(Assuming you put the end-quote tag in the wrong place.)

Yes, I recall; I’d just misunderstood its significance.

It's pretty amusing, though, that the platform is of absolutely no importance now. Wrapping the next day's fish indeed!

Wait, it isn’t? Why? I thought there was still a chance for NFP to form part of government.

On Joe Biden: Okay, I asked this question before, but I think it's worth asking again: why aren't they replacing Biden right now? Are they crazy? Do they actually want to lose?

Presumably because replacing a sitting president is a rather difficult thing to do, and also because he has been doing a reasonably good job up until now.

[WeepingElf]

(Assuming you put the end-quote tag in the wrong place.)

Yes, I recall; I’d just misunderstood its significance.

It's pretty amusing, though, that the platform is of absolutely no importance now. Wrapping the next day's fish indeed!

With all the depressing news being discussed recently, might I recommend this wonderful (though US-centric) antidote to the doom and gloom: https://acoup.blog/2024/06/28/fireside- ... e-28-2024/

Yeah but none of that will matter when the US falls to fascism. Plenty of horrible dictatorships could cherrypick improving metrics but that would hardly balance out their crimes or give inhabitants cause for relief. Sorry if that sounds rude or dismissive but we are facing the end of liberal democracy in the US and probably the world in general.

I get some of your annoyance, but one thing this piece does is remind us that problems can actually be fixed, and quite often are fixed. It's a good thing to remember now.

This applies to the rise of fascism: it's good to remember that (though there has been and will be needless suffering we shouldn't forget) the crisis of democracy is not eternal and will be fixed at one point too.

Yes. There probably will be lots of dissent in the United States, and democratic revolutions have been successful in several countries, some of them having much weaker democratic traditions than the US. The current ascendancy of the far right probably won't last forever. It takes more than just ballots to get rid of an authoritarian government, but it can be done - even without violence (and tyrannicide usually doesn't work).

On Joe Biden: Okay, I asked this question before, but I think it's worth asking again: why aren't they replacing Biden right now? Are they crazy? Do they actually want to lose?

Both Democrats and Republicans are equally crazy. Is there no one in the party leadership that has spent some time around 80-years-old folks? There's no way a 80 year old man is in any fit state to run a country, no matter how sharp their mind is.

They are not equally crazy (which doesn't mean that the Democrats aren't crazy - but nominating an octogenarian who has done a pretty agreeable job so far but now shows sings of senility is not equally crazy as nominating a patent crook of whom everybody can see that he'll do a lot of harm to the country and the planet). But as far as I can tell as an observer from far abroad, it is very hard to throw a candidate who has hugely won the primaries off the ticket. The only unassailable way of doing that is to persuade Biden to retreat by his own volition. Everything else will probably just lead to nasty lawsuits.

[bradrn]

Everything else will probably just lead to nasty lawsuits.

…and quite probably an election loss, let’s not forget that.

[WeepingElf]

Everything else will probably just lead to nasty lawsuits.

…and quite probably an election loss, let’s not forget that.

Of course. Indeed, it is hard to imagine a plausible scenario where the Democrats do not lose the election. Brr.

[jcb]

With all the depressing news being discussed recently, might I recommend this wonderful (though US-centric) antidote to the doom and gloom: https://acoup.blog/2024/06/28/fireside- ... e-28-2024/

I'm ever suprised at the thing about crime. it's likely social media -or maybe a coordinated plot by the right wing to militarize society?- but to see that year after crime goes down as fear of crime goes up is weird. same's happening in my own country, and likely elsewhere.

(1) Conservatives always say that crime is out of control, regardless of what the crime rate actually is.
(2) Conservatives are hypersensitive to anything that opposes their rule.
(3) Conservatives think that the solution to any problem is just more force.
(4) Although crime has decreased, economic hardship has increased, which makes people feel unsafe, (both when it's happening to them, and when they're observing it happen to someone else).
(5) Removing lead from gasoline, pipes, paint, etc was probably a good thing.

[Torco]

I think yes, american style fascism (and adjacent stuff, like the KKK) has a long tradition of informality. perhaps not unrelatedly, fascism with american characteristics has a strong element of clandestinity abroad as well.

One problem with replacing Biden is that it would feel like such a powerful symbollic victory to the magas. it's still probably the right choice, now, but the democrats trying to lose is par for the course.

My own idea is that this has to do with the media generally being owned by plutocrats, and so have an incentive to talk about crime instead of, I don't know, stagnating incomes or other inconvenient subjects.

I mean... but the media has always been owned by plutocrats, and afaik screentime dedicated to crime and shit is going up too, which means it went up. par ailleurs, people these days are pretty obsessed with crime in media other than the news: famously, all chicks watch those true crime docus, right? cause

(4) Although crime has decreased, economic hardship has increased, which makes people feel unsafe, (both when it's happening to them, and when they're observing it happen to someone else)

i tend to agree: I wonder if past economic bad times (say, early industrial revolution: yeah, yeah, growth, but most people lived in abject misery early in rural-urban migration, enclosure satanic mills etcetera) had a similar thing happen, or if it's idiosyncratic to this time around.

[Ares Land]

I mean... but the media has always been owned by plutocrats, and afaik screentime dedicated to crime and shit is going up too, which means it went up. par ailleurs, people these days are pretty obsessed with crime in media other than the news: famously, all chicks watch those true crime docus, right? cause

I don't know about true crime. I read and watch a lot of true crime stories. They really don't fit with conservative narratives -- when people unduly worry about crime, they're not thinking of white serial killers.

On media being owned by plutocrats -- hmm, yes and no. There has been a lot of media ownership consolidation. Besides, I think the general degradation in standards of living means there's a lot more need to direct attention elsewhere.

[Torco]

I agree that they don't fit the narrative, which is why I think it could be a demand thing: people -possibly- want more crime stuff to read and watch, and the plutocrat-owned news is happy to oblige. consolidation may be a thing too,

[Ares Land]

I agree that they don't fit the narrative, which is why I think it could be a demand thing: people -possibly- want more crime stuff to read and watch, and the plutocrat-owned news is happy to oblige. consolidation may be a thing too,

Ah, yes, I see what you mean and you're right; although judging from older newspapers the public always had a taste for crime stories.